Combining Realms?

[Farnaby]

In the future, I would like to have a main realm, e.g. a Pathfinder Adventure Path that uses Golarion as a base and then add a single module to this realm.

If the module is a separate realm is this at all possible?

 

[MaxSupernova]

Not until they get the marketplace up and running.

There's no ETA on that, but it won't be soon.

 

[Farnaby]

That's clear, I just wanted to know if you can import 1 realm into another.

(Also pushing the boundaries of asking a stupid question. )

 

[MaxSupernova]

No. The mechanism for transferring data between realms is fundamental to the marketplace. They aren't tied together because of business plans, but technical requirements.

 

[AEIOU]

In the future, you should be able to create a base realm and then import (via the Marketplace) additional content. So if you create/buy/download an adventure path/module, you should be able to import that material into an existing realm.

What we don't know is:
1) How we will need package material for exporting to Marketplace and then importing into our realms.
2) How seamless integration of new imported material will be when added.
3) When Marketplace will be available.
4) Whether the GM export/import functionality will be part of the initial Marketplace offering.

 

[Acenoid]

...5) Wether the GM can export/import "offline"

 

[AEIOU]

@Acenoid: VERY good addition. I have cloud so it's not a concern to me. But if cloud access is required for any data transfers between realms that is a very big question for many.

 

[goviwan]

This is similar to the topic I posted here.

I've been trying to add content whenever I have a spare moment. Unfortunately, that means sometimes I don't have an internet connection. Maybe I've got purchased content in one realm that I want to add to another and I happen to be offline. We should be able to transfer content from one realm to another and then sync later on. Same applies for user-created content.

Maybe the dialog that would allow this would be an import window which allows you to click a checkbox for items you want to import. The linking obviously would occur once the import was completed and only for items which actually existed in the second realm.

Just a few thoughts...

G

 

[Dark Lord Galen]

@Acenoid: VERY good addition. I have cloud so it's not a concern to me. But if cloud access is required for any data transfers between realms that is a very big question for many.

Ditto to that.... to me it would be counter to what was advertised.... ORIGINALLY you were only required to log on once... after that, the expectation (IMO) was we were to be able to do all functionality within our own REALMS. (yes plural)
There are many times in traveling I do not have access to wifi and have worked on my realm offline (updating later to insure sync of info). Without being able to move stuff from one of my realms to another of MY realms, this would be a near dealbreaker...

 

[rob]

Just to make things clear...

Each setting or module will be managed as a separate realm. You WILL be able to import multiple settings/modules/whatever into another realm.

By extension, this means you should be able to do the same with your own content, merging one realm in with another. So you can essentially share content with yourself.

 

[rob]

What we don't know is:
1) How we will need package material for exporting to Marketplace and then importing into our realms.

I don't understand this item, so I'm not sure how to answer it. When you "publish" content (for purchase or sharing), a package will be created. Users will then import that package into realms. This is a critical detail, since many users will want to continue evolving their published content. The published package needs to reflect a specific point in time where the content was designated for release.

And yes, users will be able to release "errata" updates to already published content, but those will again represent specific points in time where the creator decides to release a new version.

2) How seamless integration of new imported material will be when added.

This is incredibly vague and can be interpreted in a variety of ways (by me, at least), so I'm again not sure how to answer it. When you import a package, it will be its own body of content. It won't be linked into your content, so you'll need to do that yourself. It's no different than weaving a published adventure into your campaign setting today, except for being a lot easier and more useful upon completion (e.g. no post-its with messages pointing to other documents).

If you create content that builds on other published content, and then publish that new content, links to the underlying published content will be known. Those links will then be restored when the package is imported, provided that the user consuming your package actually has that underlying content himself. For example, if I own the Pathfinder Bestiary and build an adventure that references monsters therein, my adventure will be published without the Bestiary content. However, links to the Bestiary content will exist. When someone imports my adventure, those links will appear if they also have the Bestiary and will not appear if they don't have it.

3) When Marketplace will be available.

Given all the delays with Player Edition, we're looking at an initial rollout in late Q1 of next year.

4) Whether the GM export/import functionality will be part of the initial Marketplace offering.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here, so I'll take a guess. The Content Market will start out with only content that we've created. This covers content we're doing under license from a variety of publishers, including all the Kickstarter content. For those who missed the Kickstarter, all the Kickstarter content will be sold through the Content Market. After we have everything working smoothly for users consuming content we've created, we'll then make it possible for users to start publishing content. We need to take this one step at a time, else it will be a big mess.

...5) Wether the GM can export/import "offline"

Once again, this is too vague for me to know what you're exactly asking. If you are talking about the general ability to export content for use in another program, that's just a whole bunch of work that we need to prioritize against everything else on the todo list. Importing content into a realm as completely new and independent, with no links to anything else, is similarly a whole bunch of work that needs to be prioritized. Both of those are tractable.

But I'm guessing you're talking about having the ability to import content offline and have it miraculously woven into your existing realm, with all the links put into place. That's an entirely different animal and a HUGE task. Basically, it would require that everything we're doing on the server needs to be done on the client, but it's much more than that. It also needs to be done in a way that is GUARANTEED to work perfectly when you then try to sync to the cloud again. That's way beyond the scope of what we ever planned for Realm Works. The server is the only place where we can GUARANTEE that everything is reconciled properly and everything gets hooked up cleanly.

This is similar to the discussion where Realm Works was being thought of as a VTT that runs solely on the GM's computer. There has to be SINGLE arbiter of everything. If you want that to be your local computer, then the only option for the cloud is something simple like Dropbox. Just put the file up there and control everything through the local computer. Then you lose all the capabilities that the server provides, and the entire goal of Realm Works is abandoned, so that's not the path we're on.

The cloud server must be the single arbiter and controller of everything. Anything done locally has to be done in a way that is guaranteed to sync properly to the cloud. This will be extremely important in the years to come when you'll want to make notes and updates to your realm from your tablet or phone whenever an inspired idea strikes you - even if you're still using an offline laptop to run your games. We're taking the long-term view with Realm Works - not the short-term view - and there are architectural decisions that have been (and will be) made with that vision in mind.

Hopefully, this explanation is helpful.

 

[rob]

Ditto to that.... to me it would be counter to what was advertised.... ORIGINALLY you were only required to log on once... after that, the expectation (IMO) was we were to be able to do all functionality within our own REALMS. (yes plural)
There are many times in traveling I do not have access to wifi and have worked on my realm offline (updating later to insure sync of info). Without being able to move stuff from one of my realms to another of MY realms, this would be a near dealbreaker...

There appears to be a disconnect on the language used. Working "within your realms" means within each one individually (to me). What you are expecting is the ability to work "across your realms", which is an entirely different thing (again, to me). We fully support the former on the client - but not the latter.

Let's use a common application like Microsoft Word as an example here. Editing within a given document is obviously fully supported. However, editing content across documents is much more complicated and involves an almost completely different set of mechanisms, except for the most basic operations. It also incurs a great many constraints on exactly what you can and can't do.

In Realm Works, those basic operations would be equivalent to copying the contents of a text snippet from one realm into a text snippet in another realm. Beyond that, we would similarly need to provide a completely different set of mechanisms to move data between realms. However, Realm Works is vastly more complex in the variance of content that exists and how all that context is interwoven with each other. MSWord has been in development for over 30 years. It has a team of hundreds (maybe thousands) working on it. We don't have even a fraction of those resources. And it sounds to me like you expect us to magically accomplish something significantly more complex with the team we've got. Alas, we aren't miracle workers.

Our focus is on creating a product that is highly useful now and is well-positioned to become a cornerstone for every GM in the years to come. That future has content living more and more in the cloud. We fully support offline usage now and will continue to do so. However, highly sophisticated capabilities like moving/sharing/merging content between realms will be almost solely supported through the cloud server. If you consider this a deal-breaker, then that's unfortunate, but it's been the vision from the beginning and what we strove to convey during the Kickstarter - and in every other communication before and since. If you stop and think how your usage of Realm Works will likely evolve in the years to come, I hope you'll ultimately agree with the approach we're taking.

 

[AEIOU]

Sorry for the vagueness. I hadn't expected an official response and am not sure the precise language to use to describe some of the upcoming things (yet!); but you pretty much navigated your way through my item list very well with great responses. Thank you for taking the time.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

...

...5) Wether the GM can export/import "offline"

Once again, this is too vague for me to know what you're exactly asking. If you are talking about the general ability to export content for use in another program, that's just a whole bunch of work that we need to prioritize against everything else on the todo list. Importing content into a realm as completely new and independent, with no links to anything else, is similarly a whole bunch of work that needs to be prioritized. Both of those are tractable.

But I'm guessing you're talking about having the ability to import content offline and have it miraculously woven into your existing realm, with all the links put into place. That's an entirely different animal and a HUGE task. Basically, it would require that everything we're doing on the server needs to be done on the client, but it's much more than that. It also needs to be done in a way that is GUARANTEED to work perfectly when you then try to sync to the cloud again. That's way beyond the scope of what we ever planned for Realm Works. The server is the only place where we can GUARANTEE that everything is reconciled properly and everything gets hooked up cleanly.

This is similar to the discussion where Realm Works was being thought of as a VTT that runs solely on the GM's computer. There has to be SINGLE arbiter of everything. If you want that to be your local computer, then the only option for the cloud is something simple like Dropbox. Just put the file up there and control everything through the local computer. Then you lose all the capabilities that the server provides, and the entire goal of Realm Works is abandoned, so that's not the path we're on.

The cloud server must be the single arbiter and controller of everything. Anything done locally has to be done in a way that is guaranteed to sync properly to the cloud. This will be extremely important in the years to come when you'll want to make notes and updates to your realm from your tablet or phone whenever an inspired idea strikes you - even if you're still using an offline laptop to run your games. We're taking the long-term view with Realm Works - not the short-term view - and there are architectural decisions that have been (and will be) made with that vision in mind.

Hopefully, this explanation is helpful.

Thanks for the explanation. One question related to your post.

Hypothetically I've created a Realm called Pathfinder and I've entered all the campaign/rules/world based information and established links to other topics & articles. I have entered only world rules, and setting data and have not entered any adventure path data. I plan on running 2 different groups through the same adventure path and want to set up a separate realm for each group. I name these realms "Group 1" & Group "2".

When I create the realm "Group 1" & "Group 2" I would like to import the data from the Pathfinder realm so that all the world and rules data are already in the newly created realms and now I need only add the adventure path data.

It sounds like this is going to be possible, but if I am on the road and don't have internet access, will I be able to create a "Group 3" realm, import the data from the Pathfinder realm and sync it with the cloud later? Or do you have to be connected with the cloud/Marketplace in order to import data to a newly created realm?

 

[Farling]

It sounds like this is going to be possible, but if I am on the road and don't have internet access, will I be able to create a "Group 3" realm, import the data from the Pathfinder realm and sync it with the cloud later? Or do you have to be connected with the cloud/Marketplace in order to import data to a newly created realm?

You have to connect to the server to create a new realm.

This is independent of any "realm merging" capability.

 

[Mystic Lemur]

You will have to be able to connect to create a new realm, but it isn't clear yet (edit: to me) if you will need to be "online" to share a realm with yourself.

I'm curious, if you purchase content from the marketplace is that for one realm only, or can you then share that data with your other realms?

 

[Acenoid]

Once again, this is too vague for me to know what you're exactly asking. If you are talking about the general ability to export content for use in another program, that's just a whole bunch of work that we need to prioritize against everything else on the todo list. Importing content into a realm as completely new and independent, with no links to anything else, is similarly a whole bunch of work that needs to be prioritized. Both of those are tractable.

But I'm guessing you're talking about having the ability to import content offline and have it miraculously woven into your existing realm, with all the links put into place.

Hi there! Thanks for the response. Mainly I meant with importing plain text / XML and exporting plain text blocks / XML blocks / PDF blocks or similaritems.
Regarding functionality to copy / move realms (to create templates for example) would be good to be available offline. And I understand it's difficult with a lot of server sided logic. Well, we'll see how it develops and if such operations come with a monthly fee or not, when they area available.

I'm mostly happy with the tool (otherwise I wouldn't have bought it), so thanks for what's delivered already and all what is to come yet.

 

[Dr_Automaton]

I'm curious, if you purchase content from the marketplace is that for one realm only, or can you then share that data with your other realms?

I would be extremely surprised if market content wasn't linked to a user's entire account.