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Coding a whole system ?

V

Vampyre

Well-known member
Hi guys,

I was lurking into HeroLab (I noticed there is the possibility to link with herolabs files, probably characters and such). I would absolutely LOVE having my game in HL, but it won't probably never happen. The only possibility I see, is doing it with the authoring kit. I've looked into the wiki, read the samples and how they adapted the savage worlds settings inside of HL. I have programming skills (I programmed in the past, but I stopped 10 years ago, so yeah, there is a lot of rust there in my brain on that concern). The samples I have seen on the wiki are particularly scary, and it seems, when watching some portion of the code, that you truly need to know what you're doing (like the PRIORITY level code). Knowing that my setting only consist of the player's book (and just recently the game master's book), do you think that is a viable option for me to spend time in coding the whole system into HL ?

I've started recently entering my data for the universe I'm playing in inside RW, and still have a very long way to go. I noticed that there is the possibility to link to a HL character in RW, which is making me think about doing it.

On the other side, the system I'm playing with is not widespread (since it only run one game with it), but I like it very much and wouldn't want to change for another system. It's called the Victory Point System, and is based on this kind of working :

- the gm decides of the amount of victory points are needed to accomplish a task. Let's say I need 10 victory points to lockpick a door.
- I take one capability (dexterity) and one skill (lockpicking). Those are plain numbers. I add them together. Let's imagine I have 4 and 2. Total is 6. I still need 4 VP. I roll a dice (d20), and if my result is higher than 4, I lockpick the door.

That's the most basic rule. There are extra rules to bring a time pressure on certain actions, and multiple people can get involved in combining their efforts for a very tedious task. This can lead in very time dependant actions (a full crew of player, trying to hack a computer without having very much skill, working all together in order to avoid the spaceship to crash in 10 hours in a space station). I like very much this system, but on the other hand, I think that trying to code this system in HL could be very tedious and time consuming.

Do you guys have any thoughts on that ?

Many thanks
 
The answer to this question depends on the complexity of the system. Data entry can be as simple or complex as you make it. Your basic system sounds simple enough so far, and you could probably adapt the skeleton files easily enough with some work.
 
This is exactly what I'm playing. Good spot ! That's Fading Suns. I doubt it will ever come to HL (even if I would love to, I don't have that huge amount of time to code (working, and still creating the universe of Fading Suns in RW)). I might have a try at attempting coding it. Still unsure about my capabilities in creating a full system (adding the datas in the editor is at everyone's reach, coding the system is something else).
 
"With great power comes great responsibility."

That stuff is for super heroes. When it comes to software, you get something more like this.

"With great flexibility comes great complexity."

I'm not trying to scare you off, but coding your own game system is not for the faint-of-heart, nor the short-on-time.

I am fully convinced that Hero Labs is quite capable of being configured to make a character in any game system imaginable, it is that powerful and it is that capable. It is all a question of how much time you have to learn the dark art of Authoring Kit.

Back when our group played Pathfinder, I had been modifying HL Pathfinder through the use of the editor, kludging my way through figuring things out. We stopped using PF a while back, so I've not used HL for anything in the past year or so.

Very recently, I got a wild hair (probably due to Realm Works) that I should add the game system that we DO now play with into Hero Labs! I bought the Authoring Kit and began learning the XML/Script in earnest. I started modifying a copy of the 4E files, just to see how things worked, and what was possible. It has taken about a month (part time) and some posts with experienced people on these board, but I finally have a reasonably firm grasp of how the system works, and what I'm going to need to complete my project.

I believe that if I dedicate a few solid hours per night, I might have my d20-ish system ready for beta/playtest in around 6 months. I'm certain the first few weeks will simply be trying to document the game system and how it translates into things and gizmos, attributes and compsets, while also working out a crude phase/timing system. Even before I start editing XML and writing scripts.

I'm excited to get going on this, and again, I'm certainly not trying to scare anyone away, but it is definitely not going to be a quick project. The only real advantage I see in using Hero Lab instead of simply writing something from scratch using C++ or Java is that I will be able to easily integrate character portfolios into Realm Works.
 
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I agree with life4700, I have been toying around, making the Atomic-Highway system into Hero-lab, which is a simple system and it's coming along nicely, but it is time consuming and I haven't been able to get back to it in about a couple of months.

I was thinking on doing Fading Suns next, but there is a lot to consider on how to start with that game system. It can been done, but it will be a lot of work and not done quickly. It would be awesome to have it in hero lab I agree. I love that game!!!!!
 
It looks to me like it will largely depend on the complexity of the system, too; I could probably do it for the biggest part of the Fuzion game I'm currently but as noted, it'd take a fair bit of time. I'm also not sure how easy it'd be to lay out the character sheet.
 
The Character sheet, I have found isn't to hard to do once you have a lot of the character creation done. Not unless you want to get a little fancy and then it might take a little more thought of how to do it.
 
Thanks

Thank you for your messages.

@lifer4700 : You didn't scared me. Don't worry. I knew how to code in the past, but I truly didn't did anymore programming in the last ten years or something. So yeah, very rusty there. You didn't scared me at all, the samples I had read already did scared me. But it could be learned.

My biggest problem right now is that I never ever used HL (or the other free program in open source I won't tell the name). And why did I never used them ? I am an old GM, with old books, for versions so old they could easily be a collector by now. I own the first edition of Warhammer, First Edition of Vampire the Masquerade, and many more. Those are not used anymore. I also stopped playing for quite a bunch of years, and am coming back to it since a year now. I only play Fading Suns right now as a GM, and all I need is that. So, yeah, never used HL. That's my other problem. I don't know what I could expect from it, or don't see yet where I should go with it.

That's what truly scares me in buying the authoring kit. Not being able to complete what I started.

@jbearwillis : I don't know if you use RW, but if you do, would it be possible to get a copy of what you put in the stat block ? All I found were PDF files of the character sheet, or Excel files.

In any case, many thanks for your answers :)
 
I can attest to jbearwillis' mention of the character sheet being easy. It's tougher to get the user interface components working than it is to get hero lab to output data on the sheet. Character sheet output is far easier than actually implementing the mechanics needed for a game system. It hasn't stopped me on the 2e or Deathwatch files. Though with what I've learned from 2e I am planning on modifying the deathwatch files to improve them.
 
Sorry to say Vampyre, I do not own RW because of a cash flow problem at the moment. So I can't help you with the Stat blocks. I hope to be able to get it soon. I need to get a couple of things in Pathfinder first and to get the Shadowrun 5th edition game system for hero lab to be caught up on hero lab before I can think of buying RW. So sorry I can't help with that.
 
I use RW, and use stat blocks created from my Castles & Crusades plugin for HL.

The statblock output is controlled in the sample ruleset from 'out_statblock.dat'

Uh, is that even in the ballpark about what you're asking?


BoomerET
 
@jbearwillis : No need to apologise :) You have your reasons, and I'm none to tell you you are wrong or right. :) Not a big deal. In the meantime, I searched the web for stat blocks, to see what it was like, and finally created my own stat block inside RW

It's not as dynamic as it could be together with HL, but... It's already a start.

@BoomerET : Thanks for pointing this out. Unfortunately, the stat blocks for Fading Suns are different as for PF or any other campaign. Since Fading Suns is (not yet, I hope it will be some day, even if developped by volunteers) in HL, I can't use the same. But I will have a look at those though, it could give me ideas as well :)

After a few days of looking inside HL files, I don't think I have enough time to just make it happen by myself... Unfortunately. It looks like a hell of a time required to just learn it, plus, since I'm working full time, and having a family, I don't have those required hours.

I've tried everything I could try to convince me to buy it. Even trying out the D20 system (the victory point system is derived from it), and tried playing with the editor to see if I could :
- translate what was already in HL into my mother language
- add everything I needed inside HL with it.

Unfortunately, it didn't worked out well (or I didn't managed to find out).
- I couldn't edit what already was inside HL
- When I added an ability, it didn't replaced the previous one.

So yeah, I can't modify the game system, and if I add, it adds itself to the already existing data.

The authoring kit is the only viable option left, with the full dev on the project. Unfortunately, I don't have enough time to learn it.

I guess that I will need to pass on this one, and just do everything manually in RW.

But thanks for your replies and help !
 
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