Calendar

[Zanth]

I'm newish to the product (I purchased this summer) and have been rather slow in building up my campaign for various reasons. One of the main ones is my use of OS' other than Windows. That means running in a VM and there were hiccups for a while. That all said, I am OCD when it comes to maximizing productive workflows and minimizing time and effort (in all things, even if I never end up using the workflow).

For a while now, I have been using a cool "mind mapping" package called TheBrain (it used to be called Personal Brain). I won't get into all the features but it is a robust and expansive application that towers above all other options (such and Mindjet's Mind Manager) in terms of unique data elements, visualization and mimicking how humans think and store data.

I also use Evernote and devonThink Pro (for you Mac users out there) to organize and collect notes, clippings etc.

I have used these three programmes (and still do) for almost everything I have needed to do electronically, from storing code, to organizing multiple doctoral dissertations, keeping track of the bulk of my life.

When I set out to run my own game for my friends, I figured I would end up doing what I had always done: brainstorm, map and link all things with TheBrain, gather and organize data (resources, pdfs, pics, vids etc) with Evernote or devonThink and then write in Ulysses or Scriviner. Each of these apps are available for desktop and iOS devices and they sync across machines and are hosted online. There is quite a bit of overlap between some of them and in some cases, all of them. As such, I was trying desperately to avoid replicating content generation or collection, but most of all I was desperate to reduce the time and effort needed to get my ideas down and ready to be used during a session.

I began researching campaign management applications. RW came up early in my searches and from the reviews, it stood out as the top product despite some of the rumblings I encountered on forums. So I bought it almost sight unseen and even went against my better judgement and installed Windows in a VM in order to run it.

I have been slow to work RW entirely into my workflow as I said, because of the Windows bit, but over the last month I have really dug my heels in and mapped out my world. I run Numenera (a Monte Cook Games product) and although it takes place on Earth, it is 1 billion years in the future. This was never a problem for me and I went happily along c/p'ing content from my other apps and growing my world.

Tonight I set out to create my timeline and also reference the 8 prior worlds and the event that ended each (the game takes place during the 9th iteration of humanity). I have seen the timeline button but never clicked it, I never had a need. When I set out to enter a date that was outside the range of 20000 CE, I couldn't. When I set out to change the BCE/CE identifiers, I couldn't. How was I to properly document my created history if I couldn't edit the names and ranges of the calendar? Would I need to create my own elements in some other section to shoehorn it? Ugh... I didn't like that idea. So I came here to discover if I was missing some glaringly obvious option so I could get back to developing my own timeline.

Calendar.

Gosh, I had read so many negative things about the calendar feature and the forthcoming updates and some declaring the whole package as useless without it, etc. I never knew what that was about. Was it a calendar to invite players and track our games? I thought I saw that in a tab somewhere? "Oh well" I thought, I'll encounter it at some point, but I doubted it would be a big deal.

Calendar.

I get it now. Wow, this does suck! We can't document our own history in a *what is to me* reasonable way. Like others, I'm saddened, mainly because I don't want to go through a double workload. Like others, I think RW is the best content management system (that I know of) and it could replace a well oiled but really inefficient content generation workflow I have going AND I can synchronize AND I can share with my players AND I can hide stuff.

WOW! I want this to replace everything I have been using but I do understand now: Calendar.

This is very very very important for me. I'm keen on creating and making the game my own. Monte Cook purposely made the world very open and ambiguous in many ways in order to foster the type of work I get a kick out of. The inability to map this to a timeline won't break my campaign, but it throws a pretty large kink in my workflow and that means I'm less likely to go through the effort to load up RW.

This is a long post considering it is my first one that isn't about a bug fix, but I wanted to detail a bit of my background and how I came to purchase RW and why I did so and how I use it and why a calendar feature is important to me. I don't know enough about the promised features nor about other hopefuls, but if there is a camp one might place themselves in or a spot where one might cast a vote, please show me the way so that I might strengthen the argument that a working custom calendar is essential for creating and tracking a truly immersive campaign. Of course there are other applications I could create a timeline in, and then I could throw the data into RW once the feature comes alive, but if said feature has dropped in priority or has never been considered a truly important one, I hope it might rise up a few rungs on the feature list ladder. Heck, even something as simple as permitting one to edit the names of the calendar for those not using the Gregorian calendar and expanding the time range to essentially unlimited (or give us the option to take a long value or a string!). In my case, although there is no such thing as a Gregorian calendar (in the Ninth world), my players would understand if I used 10000000022 CE.

As others have expressed, RW is awesome and its utility will increase greatly with this one feature alone.

 

[MNBlockHead]

For a while now, I have been using a cool "mind mapping" package called TheBrain (it used to be called Personal Brain). I also use Evernote and devonThink Pro (for you Mac users out there) to organize and collect notes, clippings etc.

Hadn't heard of TheBrain, looks interesting. I used XMind for mind mapping and Evernote for organizing and collecting notes, clippings, articles, etc.

As such, I was trying desperately to avoid replicating content generation or collection, but most of all I was desperate to reduce the time and effort needed to get my ideas down and ready to be used during a session.

Same here. Originally I was thinking of setting up my own wiki or document-management system (like Drupal or Joomla). Then I found RW.

I have seen the timeline button but never clicked it, I never had a need. When I set out to enter a date that was outside the range of 20000 CE, I couldn't. When I set out to change the BCE/CE identifiers, I couldn't. How was I to properly document my created history if I couldn't edit the names and ranges of the calendar?

In my campaign, I've not had to worry about the date-range limitation. I wonder if this limitation could be removed without a complete overhaul of the calendar. Keep the Gregorian for now, but allow dates to go at least billions of years into the past and future.

Customizing month names may also be something that could be allowed, but it really wouldn't mean much to me. I don't need to just give different names to existing calendar elements, I need calendars with differing numbers of days per months, months per year, etc.

The inability to map this to a timeline won't break my campaign, but it throws a pretty large kink in my workflow and that means I'm less likely to go through the effort to load up RW.

Something that occurs to me as I read your post is that one driver to get the calendar feature released sooner is that content owners who might want to sell popular material through RW's content market (I would be cool if Monte Cook games would make Numenera content available in the CM), but because of the limitations of the current calendar won't because there would not be a useful way for them to enter dates.

...but if said feature has dropped in priority or has never been considered a truly important one, I hope it might rise up a few rungs on the feature list ladder. Heck, even something as simple as permitting one to
edit the names of the calendar for those not using the Gregorian calendar and expanding the time range to essentially unlimited (or give us the option to take a long value or a string!). In my case, although there is no such thing as a Gregorian calendar (in the Ninth world), my players would understand if I used 10000000022 CE.

It is still a priority and has always been considered an important feature. It is just that the survey of users and potential buyers, as well as business considerations, has prioritized the Content Market and player journals. Most of the calendar code has been completed and in earlier versions (perhaps only for the beta team, don't know, it was before I bought the software) the custom calendar feature was available. You can still find videos in You Tube showing it. But apparently is was too wonky and users found it difficult to use and they wanted to make sure that they did it right rather than release something that was half-baked.

There are a number of large camps of users calling for what is the most important features for them: calendars, exports, printing, and apparently journals. All are very vocal but developer time is a limited resource, especially in a company the size of LWD. It will all be there eventually, but none of it will be available until after the huge task of getting the CM and Web version are released. The recent upgrades were a big step in this direction.

 

[Zanth]

Hadn't heard of TheBrain, looks interesting. I used XMind for mind mapping and Evernote for organizing and collecting notes, clippings, articles, etc.

TheBrain can replace the two with ease. If one so chose, TheBrain can either index or import full folders of any type of data. This can be synchronized if one signs up for their online service. I do a lot of work outside my home, so I either need to do this on a laptop or a tablet. The sync simplifies things. The free version can still replace much of the two but the clippings would be absent. Everything else listed works and is part of the free version (which does sync too, but not the documents.)

Same here. Originally I was thinking of setting up my own wiki or document-management system (like Drupal or Joomla). Then I found RW.

I started to do exactly this. I have the wiki running and then I started to think about populating that thing. Ugh... again, so much replication in work. If RW can present what I need to, to my players AND it goes in once... jackpot on time saving!

In my campaign, I've not had to worry about the date-range limitation. I wonder if this limitation could be removed without a complete overhaul of the calendar. Keep the Gregorian for now, but allow dates to go at least billions of years into the past and future.

I could live with this. Because my game takes place on earth, even if the months are a bit shorter and the days can be a bit longer, I wouldn't worry so long as I could map my sessions to a given range that at least takes place in the proper year. Later on I could swap the names of the months. So if anyone is reading, please expand the min and max year from 20000 to something in the 10-12 digits please.

It is still a priority and has always been considered an important feature. It is just that the survey of users and potential buyers, as well as business considerations, has prioritized the Content Market and player journals.

Stupid democratic user surveys - Damn you people who hold interests and opinions that are not my own!

<...>but developer time is a limited resource, especially in a company the size of LWD. It will all be there eventually, but none of it will be available until after the huge task of getting the CM and Web version are released. The recent upgrades were a big step in this direction.

I understand the limitations. Sucks that the developers aren't robots or 5 year old Chinese sweat shop slaves, but I agree with the recent upgrades, nice improvements just from the version I installed in August.

 

[Dark Lord Galen]

It is still a priority and has always been considered an important feature. It is just that the survey of users and potential buyers, as well as business considerations, has prioritized the Content Market and player journals.

Stupid democratic user surveys - Damn you people who hold interests and opinions that are not my own!

To further clarify, the first mistake was giving player votes equal credence to DM votes.
Since RW is supposed to be a campaign manager the needs of the one managing the campaign should have taken precedence or the value of the votes would be skewed. But in the interests of fair democracy LWD inadvertently failed to consider there would be more players than DMs (10 to 1 at my own table). Ironically the Players addition will not work without the DMs version to sync to, so some where they knew (but forgot?) who the target of their product was supposed to be. Calendars, and Exporting are only some of those support tools that the DMs NEED, yet the players consider fluff.

 

[weogarth]

To further clarify, the first mistake was giving player votes equal credence to DM votes.
Since RW is supposed to be a campaign manager the needs of the one managing the campaign should have taken precedence or the value of the votes would be skewed. But in the interests of fair democracy LWD inadvertently failed to consider there would be more players than DMs (10 to 1 at my own table). Ironically the Players addition will not work without the DMs version to sync to, so some where they knew (but forgot?) who the target of their product was supposed to be. Calendars, and Exporting are only some of those support tools that the DMs NEED, yet the players consider fluff.

Eh...it's easy to play Monday morning QB on things like this. It is honestly hard to think of everything ahead of time; you do the best you can and move on. I could see myself not realizing this nor would I have gone to the user base to ask how best do the survey.

 

[ruhar]

I'm not sitting here bashing RW and saying I'm not using it because it's useless. Far from it; I'm still a huge supporter of it, and look forward to when I can jettison the other, less elegant solutions. I realize that it's gonna get some ire, especially around here, but for what I had planned to use RW for, it's going to actually going to be more of a pain for me to use it at the moment than for me not to use it.

Thank you for clarifying. I've seen some posts in the past of people throwing a hissy fit and not use RW simply because of one missing feature so I thought that was your case. I understand why you feel you can't use it yet.

I just have to say that I've been very pleased with RW, but I am disappointed that the journal was bumped ahead of calendars. It was never a Kickstarter feature so it should be below calendars. I believe the Market was a Kickstarter feature and I understand that it should be at the top, it will help generate revenue. IMNSHO the promised features should have first priority followed by newly suggested features despite what the survey indicated.

Also, the survey was done not only by Kickstarter supporters but players who wouldn't have full use of RW as a GM and I believe those considering buying it. So why should those who wouldn't have the full GM benefit of the program weigh more and those thinking of buying the program have more weight than those who it was actually designed for, the GMs? The survey result was skewed on numbers: there would be more players than GMs.

I'm sorry that this might add accelerate to a currently smoldering fire, but this has been on my mind since the survey results came out.

Flame on.
Ruhar

 

[MNBlockHead]

I can be a little too quick to complain, but I do have sympathy for businesses using kickstarter to raise funds. Instead of small number of large funders to answer to you have maybe hundreds or even thousands of backers, many of him who get quite vocal when things don't go as "promised."

I wasn't a backer of RW, but I've backed other companies, like Lunatik. The delay over the release of Lunatik's new waterproof case has provided some wince-provoking drama on the backer discussion boards.

With kickstarters, I tend to give money to companies that seem to be trying to do cool things, fully expecting a number to be disappointments or failures and most to have delays of one sort or another. Most of the time I make my pledge and forget about it I get an e-mail that it was released or get the widget in the mail.

I am more curmudgeonly when it comes to release products and services that I've been using and rely on that have issues. I fully understand and have sympathy for the developers, but it is tough when something you love stops working.

Anyway, I know LWD is working hard to work out the current bugs, but right now the calendar, journal, etc. are all far from my mind. I want what's been released to work.

The one feature that does feel very relevant now, with the upgrade issues, is print/export. Losing content because of bugs introduced with an upgrade is a scary thing, especially knowing that its locked in.

 

[Viking2054]

I believe the skew of the poll (players vs GM's) was brought up back when the poll was taken or shortly after. I know I brought it up as well as others, but I don't remember if it was while the poll was ongoing, shortly after the poll closed, or after the results came out.

I actually haven't been playing with RW very much. Not necessarily because it doesn't have a feature I want, although I purchased because of the (advertised at the time) Calendar system. I'm not sure if it is still being advertised. But being able to design custom calendars was a big thing in my purchasing decision. Sad to say I wish it was available.

I have been fielding questions for at least one other GM in my semi-regular gaming group and informed him of the issues and recommended he wait before purchasing. I will not recommend purchase for my players until the Kickstarter feature set is complete and I start using the program for my own creations.

As far as the content market goes: I am most interested in rules sets, NPC stat blocks, Monster/Animal stat blocks and maybe maps. But at least the Maps (especially battlemat type maps) should also be delivered in a printable format or be able to be delivered to us in a printed/laminated format through snail mail or some other service. I've never really cared that much for other peoples worlds if I'm running the game, although I do play in a few published worlds run by other GM's.

 

[MNBlockHead]

Hmmm...I recommend everyone who asks to buy it, because I'm selfish and want the product to be supported and developed. I can see being upset if a promised feature from the kickstarter was never included, but that doesn't mean that is isn't a good fit for others.

 

[weogarth]

Hmmm...I recommend everyone who asks to buy it, because I'm selfish and want the product to be supported and developed. I can see being upset if a promised feature from the kickstarter was never included, but that doesn't mean that is isn't a good fit for others.

Yeah....me too. My soapbox comes out to sign the praises of RW whenever I can.

 

[ruhar]

Yeah....me too. My soapbox comes out to sign the praises of RW whenever I can.

I do the same thing. I have even suggested it to those disgruntled at Obsidan Portal since it's been broken for several years. LOL That doesn't mean I'm not going to be disappointed about not having a calendar system yet or that I'm not going to occasionally poke the issue. Aside from that, and sometimes bug issues that infect I mean affect my realm RW is the greatest thing since sliced bread. LOL I think all GMs should check it out.

 

[ArgoForg]

Usually, despite my own lack of recent use with RW, I speak very highly of Lone Wolf and I am usually pretty up front with other GM's that RW is well worth the money, but I also add the caveats-- if you're looking to run a game with a laptop at the table. Most of the GM's I know have that old-school curmudgeonly streak like me and like a less tech-heavy game experience. I tell them that as a game database, it's still worth it, but I suggest that they understand that it's still a work in progress as far as that goes... your data cannot be exported or printed in any meaningful manner just yet, although it's promised in the future. It's more set up as an around-the-table application, but even just as a databasing utility, I've found it well worth the time and cost, especially when export finally comes about.

The calendar thing is something I have personal gripes about, but I don't know that it's a make-or-break for any of the GM's I know.

 

[jfos]

I had anticipated posting a question asking how we make a template to load/use like the Gregorian but representing my campaign timeline (Im setting up time triggered events... so its sorta required to track the dates)

A difficult to use tool, is better than no tool at all.

If there is existing WORKING code... release it as an "advanced" option? Maybe a template (like the Gregorian has been presented)? Even if its ugly, if ugly works...

Looking at the threads, folks WANT it, it seems there is working code... or is there a way to use a calendar other than the Gregorian, which fits the smallest range of users, that I missed?

Not complaining, just confused at the pace (this thread is over two years old), IF there is WORKING code. I bought RW to use on the web when that comes out (soon... I know =P), and by then the calendar and virtual dice will be the only things in my way and virtual dice I can write a python prng to fake till it comes. Looking forward to the new feature.

 

[Areinu]

Well, +1. I wouldn't mind even if custom calendar was to be "programmed" with some script language, and that script would have to be pasted somewhere. Without real UI. After all community would quickly make scripts for common calendars like Forgotten Realms, Star Wars etc.

 

[Vargr]

It is a tough call for LW.

Release a much-asked-for feature (calendars) with a difficult to use interface (or none at all) with required pseudo-code programming will surely alienate a lot of users.

While a small group of dedicated people might get something useful out of it, the majority of users (the ones with no idea of how to use or inclination of using some sort of coding approach) will be put off and might (rightfully?) claim that the calendar system is broken, difficult, stupid, incomprehensible, etc.

Will this be beneficial for the product and LW as a company?

Probably not.

And then it won't be beneficial for us - even those of us screaming for calendars.

Tough choice for LW - I am glad I don't have to make the call.


Please note, that I really, really want calendars, I want them now, and I don't mind making pseudo coding to make it work.

 

[AEIOU]

My understanding is that calendar code was mostly in place since the Kickstarter early release. It was only available to closed beta testers. I've only seen comments from one beta tester that actually got something sort of usable before it was pulled due to the interface being half-baked. But it wasn't easy. And I've not heard of anyone else that was successful.

The calendar is by necessity completely new code by LWD. They can't just take some standard calendar code off the shelf and plug it in because...well...because all you could do then is Gregorian calendars.... I'm sure they play or know people that play fantasy, modern, horror, sci-fi, multi-dimensional games that may have alternate physics and understand how convoluted and non-standard gamers tend to make things when given the opportunity.

If the beta team couldn't grok it right away and Rob feels it really isn't ready for prime time, then I have to agree with their decision. I may want RW to go in different directions or for priorities/features to be different, but Rob can see the bigger picture that we can't and despite a few marketing stumbles his decision-making is rock solid. Releasing something that the majority of the user base wants to use but can't figure out would be baaaaaaaad.

It's frustrating to wait but you may find that tracking timelines in Excel and then adding each item later would work for you. I've been using Excel in this way in hopes that next month we'll get calendars, or maybe the NEXT month... But after two years of it not coming next month, I recently broke down and have been adding date snippets to hundreds of categories for cities being founded, major battles, milestones, calamities, etc. Because I've got a solid Excel spreadsheet of all the dates and all of the events it is very quick work despite the clunky interface for picking dates. I'm glad I waited rather than tried doing it as I created the entries as it is MUCH faster. For dates outside the current structure I can add a note for the correct date or not add it until later.

Hang in there.

 

[kbs666]

Just think about a world with 3 moons with different cycles and 3 cultures which base their calendars around the different moons. Now try and sync the calendars. I tried it. It was a mess. A computer should be able to do it no problem but it is messy to do by hand.

Building a UI that will allow you to design an arbitrary number of calendars that mesh with each other in any number of ways is a very difficult project. I have no idea how to do it.

 

[Asandir]

While I too have been waiting for calendars, I just came across tonight this software called Aeon Timeline. They have a 20 use day Trial version for Windows and Mac. I am just installing the Trial version now to see what it is capable of doing. Found some additional notes on the website.


Fantasy/Custom Calendars

Back to Category List

What type of fantasy calendars do you support?
What about historic calendars such as Julian calendars?
Will you support other types of fantasy calendars in the future?

Q: What type of fantasy calendars do you support?

At present, Aeon Timeline allow you to create custom calendars that have the same basic components of our standard calendar system: days, months, years, and eras. The number and length of weekdays, months and eras is configurable, as is the number of hours in a day.

Leap years are supported in a limited form, and eras can move in both the forward and backward direction.

To ensure that calendar systems are continuous, calendars must have a first era that counts infinitely backwards, and a last era that counts infinitely forwards. Although these must exist in the calendar system as “Distant Past” and “Distant Future”, timelines can be limited to include just the other eras if required



Q: Will you support other types of fantasy calendars in the future?

We hope to be able to improve the flexibility of the calendar system in future releases.

If you have a particular suggestion for a type of calendar that you wish to implement, make a feature request and we will see if we can accommodate it in a future update.

Bear in mind that building significant flexibility into calendar systems, while still being able to calculate the time between different events, can be quite complex, and so we may not be able to support all types of calendar systems.

 

[MNBlockHead]

I tried Aeon Timeline a when I first bought RW about a year ago. It seemed promising, but ultimately was not what I was looking for. Unless I totally missed it, or unless new features are now available, it did not support multiple calendars or do any calendrical conversions. I could enter a time line in one calendar and the then toggle it to show in another calendar. Aeon is a powerful and popular timeline tool that many writers like to use to map out story plots and histories. But it does not provide the functionality that RW's calendar feature promises.

 

[Vargr]

I have to agree with MNBlockHead.

I tried Aeon out and found that it only supported one calendar and didn't really provide the tools I understand (maybe wrongly) that RW calendar is set up to handle.

It seems they have updated Aeon recently and added a few extras. But there still seems to be only one calendar in play at a time.

I just had a quick scan for calendar tools and of the five promising ones I found none supported custom calendars; they all used good old Gregor's system, so Aeon has that feature going for it.

If someone know how to be able to switch between two calendar systems in Aeon (on the same timeline, just changing the dates to another system), please let me know.