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asking about a background option

  • Thread starter Thread starter skaven13 at aol.com
  • Start date Start date
S

skaven13 at aol.com

Guest
I know that if you run either the demo version of army builder, or if
you run the cd version without the cd in the drive, then the rosters
have an image on the page saying demo mode (or something close). Is
there a way to make this image appear using the full version, and
with different images?

I wouldn't mind seeing the inquisitor's "I" symbol as a background
image for my marines, or some other picture for my tyranids.

Chris Stricker
 
Ok Rob, I just wanted to know about the watermark. Feel free to toss
those anvils in his direction. ;)

And I know the watermark is a little bennie. I just thought it was
kinda cool (and I would guess if the picture was done in black and
white, and lightened significantly, that it should work).

Otherwise, keep up the good work.

Chris Stricker

--- In armybuilder@y..., "Fallenhunter" <fallenhunter@n...> wrote:
> Could I suggest something?
>
> AB does not have to do the dithering, make it so that the person
who
> wrote the datafile did and have him mantain the images.
>
> *ducks the incoming anvil*
>
> Ok, now that I am safe (for the moment at least). It would seem to
> me that having the pictures as part of the datafile (or attached to
> it) is a much better way than to have it open to all users. Yes,
if
> a person really wanted to he could dive into the datafile and
figure
> out how to change the picture and make it work. But it if was
> published so that that datafile included the background picture.
Most
> people would leave it at that.
>
> Also, suggestions:
>
> 1: Allow an option to disable said background picture. Saves ink.
>
> 2: Option to use said picture as a background for a HTML exported
> army.
>
> 3: (gets ready to duck again) Allow a menu of premade pictures
> (generic ones) plus what the differant datafiles may have in
> them(This way they could have many pictures with one datafile)You
> could also include more of these with updates. Yes, they may be
> standard jpg files, but you dont have to tell the world this. Those
> who figure it out, can read the rest and do it right. The average
> user (which most likely is not a gamer, granted) would not bother
to
> mess with it.
> *Ducks*
>
> Also, a simple little HOWTO type document using freely availble
tools
> (paint shop pro can do this IIRC, and it has a free demo). Would
make
> life a lot easier. Even if the HOWTO would not be that easy to
write.
> I personally would state plainly, that using non-standard
watermarks
> is unsupported by tech support. And reply to such responses with a
> form letter.
>
> Course this is just my take on it. Your milage may vary, feel free
> to steal any ideas, or throw them all in the waste bin. Your choice.
>
>
> Dwayne
>
> > This is on the "todo" list, but it's not as easy as it may seem.
It's
> > called a "watermark", and the watermark needs to be converted to a
> > black/white image that uses a dithering pattern to soften it (much
> > like the way newspapers get lighter shades of grey with purely
black
> > ink). If the image isn't dithered, then it's a solid blob in the
> > background that obscures the roster itself. The gotcha is that
either
> > the user or AB has to do the dithering, and it appears that most
users
> > don't have any idea about how to do the dithering (no surprise).
That
> > means that AB has to do the dithering work if it's going to be
useful
> > for most users, and that takes a fair bit of time to implement. So
> > far, that time has gone into other more valuable features like the
> > auto-update notification and the integrated retrieval/import of
new
> > data files. But it's on the todo list!
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> > Rob
> >
> >
> > At 01:48 AM 3/3/01 +0000, you wrote:
> > >I know that if you run either the demo version of army builder,
or if
> > >you run the cd version without the cd in the drive, then the
rosters
> > >have an image on the page saying demo mode (or something
close). Is
> > >there a way to make this image appear using the full version, and
> > >with different images?
> > >
> > >I wouldn't mind seeing the inquisitor's "I" symbol as a
background
> > >image for my marines, or some other picture for my tyranids.
> > >
> > >Chris Stricker
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> > ----- Rob Bowes (rob@w...)
> > (650) 726-9689 Lone Wolf
Development
> > www.wolflair.com
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, email
> >
> > armybuilder-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Fallenhunter
> "They know you have the information they want, question is when
will they find you."
> Overheard at a bar in the Corbia sector.
 
Could I suggest something?

AB does not have to do the dithering, make it so that the person who
wrote the datafile did and have him mantain the images.

*ducks the incoming anvil*

Ok, now that I am safe (for the moment at least). It would seem to
me that having the pictures as part of the datafile (or attached to
it) is a much better way than to have it open to all users. Yes, if
a person really wanted to he could dive into the datafile and figure
out how to change the picture and make it work. But it if was
published so that that datafile included the background picture. Most
people would leave it at that.

Also, suggestions:

1: Allow an option to disable said background picture. Saves ink.

2: Option to use said picture as a background for a HTML exported
army.

3: (gets ready to duck again) Allow a menu of premade pictures
(generic ones) plus what the differant datafiles may have in
them(This way they could have many pictures with one datafile)You
could also include more of these with updates. Yes, they may be
standard jpg files, but you dont have to tell the world this. Those
who figure it out, can read the rest and do it right. The average
user (which most likely is not a gamer, granted) would not bother to
mess with it.
*Ducks*

Also, a simple little HOWTO type document using freely availble tools
(paint shop pro can do this IIRC, and it has a free demo). Would make
life a lot easier. Even if the HOWTO would not be that easy to write.
I personally would state plainly, that using non-standard watermarks
is unsupported by tech support. And reply to such responses with a
form letter.

Course this is just my take on it. Your milage may vary, feel free
to steal any ideas, or throw them all in the waste bin. Your choice.


Dwayne

> This is on the "todo" list, but it's not as easy as it may seem. It's
> called a "watermark", and the watermark needs to be converted to a
> black/white image that uses a dithering pattern to soften it (much
> like the way newspapers get lighter shades of grey with purely black
> ink). If the image isn't dithered, then it's a solid blob in the
> background that obscures the roster itself. The gotcha is that either
> the user or AB has to do the dithering, and it appears that most users
> don't have any idea about how to do the dithering (no surprise). That
> means that AB has to do the dithering work if it's going to be useful
> for most users, and that takes a fair bit of time to implement. So
> far, that time has gone into other more valuable features like the
> auto-update notification and the integrated retrieval/import of new
> data files. But it's on the todo list!
>
> Hope this helps,
> Rob
>
>
> At 01:48 AM 3/3/01 +0000, you wrote:
> >I know that if you run either the demo version of army builder, or if
> >you run the cd version without the cd in the drive, then the rosters
> >have an image on the page saying demo mode (or something close). Is
> >there a way to make this image appear using the full version, and
> >with different images?
> >
> >I wouldn't mind seeing the inquisitor's "I" symbol as a background
> >image for my marines, or some other picture for my tyranids.
> >
> >Chris Stricker
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com)
> (650) 726-9689 Lone Wolf Development
> www.wolflair.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, email
>
> armybuilder-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Fallenhunter
"They know you have the information they want, question is when will they find you."
Overheard at a bar in the Corbia sector.
 
This is on the "todo" list, but it's not as easy as it may seem. It's
called a "watermark", and the watermark needs to be converted to a
black/white image that uses a dithering pattern to soften it (much like the
way newspapers get lighter shades of grey with purely black ink). If the
image isn't dithered, then it's a solid blob in the background that
obscures the roster itself. The gotcha is that either the user or AB has to
do the dithering, and it appears that most users don't have any idea about
how to do the dithering (no surprise). That means that AB has to do the
dithering work if it's going to be useful for most users, and that takes a
fair bit of time to implement. So far, that time has gone into other more
valuable features like the auto-update notification and the integrated
retrieval/import of new data files. But it's on the todo list!

Hope this helps,
Rob


At 01:48 AM 3/3/01 +0000, you wrote:
>I know that if you run either the demo version of army builder, or if
>you run the cd version without the cd in the drive, then the rosters
>have an image on the page saying demo mode (or something close). Is
>there a way to make this image appear using the full version, and
>with different images?
>
>I wouldn't mind seeing the inquisitor's "I" symbol as a background
>image for my marines, or some other picture for my tyranids.
>
>Chris Stricker


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 726-9689
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
 
At 13:41 07/03/2001 -0500, you wrote:

> > 2) The size of the distributed .ab file would quickly swell as people
> > submitted images they wanted to use.
>
>Well, it could also be a seperate download. As AB uses the fact that
>the datafiles are fan generated, to avoid copyright (which I really
>like), it would be hard for them to offically support the images
>themselves, or release them. Thus my suggestion.

If they're going to be a separate download, then why not just let anybody
do them? You'd have to assume competence on the users part, but you need to
do that anyway :)



--
'Not Colin' McAlister - License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
-----------------------------+------------------------------------
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time
 
> >Could I suggest something?
> >
> >AB does not have to do the dithering, make it so that the person who
> >wrote the datafile did and have him mantain the images.
> >
> >*ducks the incoming anvil*
>
> Too bad about the machine-gun fire...

Yea, guess I should have wore the bullet proof vest as well.

>
> If you put the burden of doing picture on whoever does the datafiles,
> two things happen:
>
> 1) The person who does the datafiles has to know how to do it.

True, but its not really that hard to do. Once you have the right
tools, and have done it once.

> 2) The size of the distributed .ab file would quickly swell as people
> submitted images they wanted to use.

Well, it could also be a seperate download. As AB uses the fact that
the datafiles are fan generated, to avoid copyright (which I really
like), it would be hard for them to offically support the images
themselves, or release them. Thus my suggestion.

>
> Having selectable pictures is fine. If I have to actually do anything
> about them, that's not fine. :)
>
You could alwasy sucker... err... request help from someone who does
this type of work, I am sure there is an artist somewhere that uses
the program and would be willing to donate some times to the cause.

I know your already overworked, and your doing a damn fine job of it.
While I cannot draw a straight line without a ruler, even on the
computer. Applying filters and the like is something I could do, if
provided with the orginal artwork (thats copyright free of course).
Thats all (from how I understand the process) thats really required.
I use paint shop pro, and The GIMP and either one can handle the
watermark making. I think.

Yes, consider this an offer to help, at least until you find someone
better, if this comes to pass.




Fallenhunter
"They know you have the information they want, question is when will they find you."
Overheard at a bar in the Corbia sector.
 
At 20:35 06/03/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>Could I suggest something?
>
>AB does not have to do the dithering, make it so that the person who
>wrote the datafile did and have him mantain the images.
>
>*ducks the incoming anvil*

Too bad about the machine-gun fire...

If you put the burden of doing picture on whoever does the datafiles, two
things happen:

1) The person who does the datafiles has to know how to do it.
2) The size of the distributed .ab file would quickly swell as people
submitted images they wanted to use.

Having selectable pictures is fine. If I have to actually do anything about
them, that's not fine. :)


--
'Not Colin' McAlister - License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
-----------------------------+------------------------------------
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time
 
On 7 Mar 2001, at 20:20, Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister wrote:

> At 13:41 07/03/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>
> > > 2) The size of the distributed .ab file would quickly swell as
> > > people submitted images they wanted to use.
> >
> >Well, it could also be a seperate download. As AB uses the fact that
> >the datafiles are fan generated, to avoid copyright (which I really
> >like), it would be hard for them to offically support the images
> >themselves, or release them. Thus my suggestion.
>
> If they're going to be a separate download, then why not just let
> anybody do them? You'd have to assume competence on the users part,
> but you need to do that anyway :)
>

I support computer users, and maintain systems for a living. The one
thing you can count on, and the only thing you can, is that users
have no cometence at all. For any given task. That said, the more
difficult jobs are best left to those who know what they are doing.
As I said, I would do it, until you find someone better.

I was refering to a seperate add on package, possibly one for each
race within the datafile, or maybe one for the whole datafile.
Adding on to the list would be as easy as adding a file to the zip or
directory. You would be able to have the more advanced users help you
out and add to it, without requiring that the novice users be able to
convert the pictures.

Of course, it might be similar just to have a link from the same
places that have the datafiles to the place where the pictures are
stored. (IE: an indepentant maintainer, and project).

Takes the heat off you that way.



Fallenhunter
"They know you have the information they want, question is when will they find you."
Overheard at a bar in the Corbia sector.
 
At 06:24 PM 3/7/01 +0000, you wrote:
>Having selectable pictures is fine. If I have to actually do anything about
>them, that's not fine. :)

But you are now the slave of the masses! Haven't you succumbed to this
reality yet?

Citizen, please report to the Center for Mind Control for proper
recalibration. :-)

JUST JOKING!!

- Rob

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 726-9689
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
 
At 08:35 PM 3/6/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Also, a simple little HOWTO type document using freely availble tools
>(paint shop pro can do this IIRC, and it has a free demo). Would make
>life a lot easier. Even if the HOWTO would not be that easy to write.
>I personally would state plainly, that using non-standard watermarks
>is unsupported by tech support. And reply to such responses with a
>form letter.

I am NOT a graphics guy. I know enough to limp along and that's about it. I
also have a zillion other tasks that are vying for my time and attention.
Having ME do this ends up with the task at the bottom of a very long list
of things to do. However, if you would like to write up something like this
and make it available to users, I would be happy to publish it on the
web-site where everyone can get access to it. This would then make it
possible for me to add in support for watermarks without a huge amount of
effort, which would make the feature MUCH more likely to appear in the near
term. If you're interested in taking on this task, please put something
together and get it to me. Since I'm not a graphics guy, I figure that if I
can understand it, it ought to be useful to a lot of folks out there. :-)
I'd prefer if the "How To" document were an HTML file (much like the AB
Tutorial), although a text file that I can convert to RTF will work fine, too.

Thanks, Rob

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 726-9689
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
 
On 8 Mar 2001, at 17:11, Rob Bowes wrote:

> At 04:31 PM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote:
> >Of course, it might be similar just to have a link from the same
> >places that have the datafiles to the place where the pictures are
> >stored. (IE: an indepentant maintainer, and project).
> >
> >Takes the heat off you that way.
>
> This is definitely the way I envisioned it working. Some users won't
> want the watermarks, so why make them download them all? It needs to
> be a separate thing that users can avail themselves of if they want.
>
> Thanks, Rob
>

Ok, I will run the site with the semi-offical pictures. When can we
expect the code?

*grin*

Seriously, can we hope for it in version 3?




Fallenhunter
"They know you have the information they want, question is when will they find you."
Overheard at a bar in the Corbia sector.
 
Actually, you don't have to worry about running a separate site as long the
artwork is not copyrighted. I'll setup a section on the Wolf Lair site for
the artwork. However, if you plan on using official artwork, then THAT will
need to maintained by someone else - possibly just piggy-backing the
mechanism that Colen put in place (AB-Files) or an equivalent mechanism.

If you put together at least TWO suitable watermark images (one sci-fi and
one fantasy), along with appropriate "How To" instructions (per my other
email), then I will promise to add the functionality into the next major
feature release of AB. BUT, I need to see those two pieces before my
promise goes into effect. Sound fair? :-)

Thanks, Rob

P.S. You are welcome to create as many different pieces of artwork for
watermarks as you'd like. However, I want two generic pieces that can be
bundled into AB or made "default optoins" for the product. These are just a
starter set for users and my hope is you'll jumpstart the creation of a lot
of these that everyone uses regularly. :-)


At 09:36 PM 3/8/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Ok, I will run the site with the semi-offical pictures. When can we
>expect the code?
>
>*grin*
>
>Seriously, can we hope for it in version 3?


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 726-9689
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
 
On 8 Mar 2001, at 16:59, Rob Bowes wrote:

> At 08:35 PM 3/6/01 -0500, you wrote:
> >Also, a simple little HOWTO type document using freely availble tools
> >(paint shop pro can do this IIRC, and it has a free demo). Would make
> >life a lot easier. Even if the HOWTO would not be that easy to write.
> >I personally would state plainly, that using non-standard watermarks
> >is unsupported by tech support. And reply to such responses with a
> >form letter.
>
> I am NOT a graphics guy. I know enough to limp along and that's about

Neither am I, but this is not that tough, there are filters that will
do it for you.

> it. I also have a zillion other tasks that are vying for my time and
> attention. Having ME do this ends up with the task at the bottom of a
> very long list of things to do. However, if you would like to write up

I can relate, I am a hobbiest programmer myself, and a father, and a
owner of a business, and a husband....

> something like this and make it available to users, I would be happy
> to publish it on the web-site where everyone can get access to it.

Hmm... I will look around, someone may already have done the leg
work.

> This would then make it possible for me to add in support for
> watermarks without a huge amount of effort, which would make the
> feature MUCH more likely to appear in the near term. If you're
> interested in taking on this task, please put something together and
> get it to me. Since I'm not a graphics guy, I figure that if I can
> understand it, it ought to be useful to a lot of folks out there. :-)
> I'd prefer if the "How To" document were an HTML file (much like the
> AB Tutorial), although a text file that I can convert to RTF will work
> fine, too.

Well, all the help files I write are HTML files, RTF-word-etc, are a
pain in the butt, as I work under linux for the most part.

Will get back to you in a few days....

Dwayne

aka:

Fallenhunter
"They know you have the information they want, question is when will they find you."
Overheard at a bar in the Corbia sector.
 
At 06:23 AM 3/7/01 +0000, you wrote:
>And I know the watermark is a little bennie. I just thought it was
>kinda cool (and I would guess if the picture was done in black and
>white, and lightened significantly, that it should work).

That's the trick. How do you "lighten" a black&white image? Answer: You
can't. The solution is to process the black areas into distributed gaps
between the dots of black ink. Doing this well is not a trivial task in any
way, shape, or form. I recommend taking a look at newspaper under a
magnifying lens some day. You'll see that the "grey" areas are actually
regions with the black dots dispersed a bit. The grey is an illusion, since
it's all black or white. This is where things get complicated and why it's
not a simple task to do.

Thanks, Rob

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 726-9689
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
 
At 01:32 PM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote:
>hey rob -
>
>when you kick out PostScript (or HPCL) can't you indicate that an image
>should have a transparency value? I'm not sure if you're down in that layer
>of the API, but if you are, it might provide a quick-and-dirty.

AB uses the standard Windows printing mechanism. The printer driver handles
all the details. If a printer is black&white, then it's up to me to place
every pixel on the page and decide whether it's black or white. There is no
such thing as transparency at that level, and the transparency capabilities
would only be useful for a subset of all AB users that have printers
supporting such capabilities.

>Alternately, doesn't either JPEG or GIF have a transparency field in the
>protocol? If they do, and the Windows rendering widgets honor it, you could
>require the backgrounds in whichever format, twiddle the parameter, and let
>the renderers do the work...

The image goes in the BACKGROUND first of all, so transparency is
meaningless. Second, AB is the one that has to do all the rendering you
refer to. That means I have to write the code. Your printer does NOT
understand about JPEG or GIF images. It's up to the program to interpret
things properly and pass it to the printer correctly. Please see my previos
post for more details on this.

Thanks, Rob

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 726-9689
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
 
At 04:31 PM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Of course, it might be similar just to have a link from the same
>places that have the datafiles to the place where the pictures are
>stored. (IE: an indepentant maintainer, and project).
>
>Takes the heat off you that way.

This is definitely the way I envisioned it working. Some users won't want
the watermarks, so why make them download them all? It needs to be a
separate thing that users can avail themselves of if they want.

Thanks, Rob

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 726-9689
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
 
On 8 Mar 2001, at 22:12, Rob Bowes wrote:

> Actually, you don't have to worry about running a separate site as
> long the artwork is not copyrighted. I'll setup a section on the Wolf
> Lair site for the artwork. However, if you plan on using official
> artwork, then THAT will need to maintained by someone else - possibly
> just piggy-backing the mechanism that Colen put in place (AB-Files) or
> an equivalent mechanism.
>
> If you put together at least TWO suitable watermark images (one sci-fi
> and one fantasy), along with appropriate "How To" instructions (per my
> other email), then I will promise to add the functionality into the
> next major feature release of AB. BUT, I need to see those two pieces
> before my promise goes into effect. Sound fair? :-)
>
> Thanks, Rob
>
> P.S. You are welcome to create as many different pieces of artwork for
> watermarks as you'd like. However, I want two generic pieces that can
> be bundled into AB or made "default optoins" for the product. These
> are just a starter set for users and my hope is you'll jumpstart the
> creation of a lot of these that everyone uses regularly. :-)
>

Ok, I have a few other things on my plate this month. I will start on
it, but will not have it done (The HOW TO that is) within a few
weeks. THe artwork I will throw something together in the next two
weeks or so. I also run my own business, I repair hardware, and its
booming right now. No time to do anything fun.

Laters!


Fallenhunter
"They know you have the information they want, question is when will they find you."
Overheard at a bar in the Corbia sector.
 
At 14:14 08/03/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>At 06:24 PM 3/7/01 +0000, you wrote:
> >Having selectable pictures is fine. If I have to actually do anything about
> >them, that's not fine. :)
>
>But you are now the slave of the masses! Haven't you succumbed to this
>reality yet?

Hey, slave to the masses I don't mind. *Unpaid* slave to the masses, now
that's different :)

>Citizen, please report to the Center for Mind Control for proper
>recalibration. :-)
>
>JUST JOKING!!

Yeah yeah, now get back to porting AB to the Palm Pilot, or converting it
to Java, before I have to come in there }:>


--
'Not Colin' McAlister - License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
-----------------------------+------------------------------------
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time
 
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