All's quite on the Western Front

[jkthomsen9]

A "number of weeks" can be six weeks, or maybe thirty-seven weeks. I think that was intentionally left uncertain.

Actually it feels more like thirty-seven.

I agree. For some unexplained reason that is completely my own. I expected it at or before PiazoCon, which was Memorial day weekend.

I bought RW several weeks before PiazoCon 2014, just days after the kickstarter finished. I discovered the program when I started registering what classes I wanted to take at PazioCon. I took every class for both RW and HL. I remember the excitement LWD had for this product.

I find myself in two camps. On one hand I am very disappointed in the software. I desperately need to be able to combine two of MY realms. I have entered a vast majority of the Inner Sea World Guide and many of the supplement material into one realm. I have entered Wrath of the Righteous Adventure path into another. I am running a group through the adventure path and need the two realms merged. I created the realms this way because I was told that the ability to merge was imminent and this was the way to do it.

Now I have painted myself into a corner. I am not willing to muddy up either of my two realms, nor am I willing to redo all the work to create a hybrid of the two. So I am stuck waiting, and waiting, and waiting.

On the other hand I remember the rocky start HL had. I remember taking an XML class so I could understand the program better, as I was an amateur programmer in the beginning. There were a lot of us writing custom data-sets to enter all the 3.5 and Pathfinder content. A few of us rose to the top, like chiefweasel and ShadowChemosh. Now HL content comes out with the release of the current content. Three weeks ago I wrote the first custom data set I have written in years. I needed to change a named magic item from a longsword to a Dwarven Waraxe, which is the only reason to use the editor anymore, to modify YOUR game away from RAW. I can not run my game without HL.

I have hopes that RW will get there. It is under the same leadership. I am frustrated that there are no workarounds to get the community where they need to be in the meantime. It is dame right infuriating to have literally hundreds of hours of my work locked up in a way that dose not allow me to use it in the way it was intended to be used. And so I wait.

 

[ThatOneMike]

I do not have a use for Realm Works anymore. After 3 years of waiting and the constant delays, I do not think it is worth waiting for any more. I have looked into the forums every now and then to see if there are any updates and may continue to do so in the future but for now, I'm done caring. In November/December 2015 we got 'first quarter 2016', now we only get 'soon' (second quarter 2016 is almost over). I am a Kick-starter backer so I will have a life time subscription to the cloud, if it ever comes. At the current rate I may be dead before it is released; only time will tell.

It's not useful to you at all?

 

[AEIOU]

Removing my comment. I'm cranky after three years. And it's been a long week. I'll wait until I have something constructive to contribute.

 

[jkthomsen9]

Removing my comment. I'm cranky after three years. And it's been a long week. I'll wait until I have something constructive to contribute.

I completely understand.

 

[wurzel]

Having managed software projects for decades I know that one saying is true:
"Adding people to a late project makes ist even later." That is absolutely valid for projects that are several weeks behind schedule.
It is no longer valid if the project in question is years behind schedule.

I certainly don't know how complex a software RealmWorks is. But nevertheless I can't imagine that it is impossible to code a migration routine to merge or copy existing realms within, say, four weeks:
- Collect the data (topics, categories, whatever) from a particular view that the user has to define; (1 week)
- Write the data to a file; (1 week including test)
- Read the data file into a new view in the destination realm, maybe automatically renaming conflicting topics so the user can sort it out afterwards;
(2 weeks including test).

The above effort assumptions maybe invalid if the database used is extremely complex - using triggers, stored procedures and the like. But somehow RealmWorks runs on my computer, although I don't have a Oracle or similar license there. So I think that is not the case.

The only explanation that this doesn't happen I can think of is that RealmWorks is basically not intended to be used for self-created content but as a platform for the content market. Therefore all resources are put into finishing the content selling capabilities. From a monetary point of view that is completely sensible.

 

[MNBlockHead]

Realmworks works fine for my needs. I run a single campaign with a single group. There are features I would like, including custom calendars, printing, and I would like the content market to add content without all the data-entry work.

I check in on the forums one a week or so, but until the next update, there is not much to discuss.

 

[JustinThomason]

Realm Works works great for my current needs. I am only running a single campaign and for the time being it does what I need it to do. I do wish I could share realms with myself, but the program does so many things that nothing else does I have no reservations using and recommending the software. Lone Wolf has a solid track record of increasing the utility of their products over time (Hero Lab has gotten lots better in just the four or five years I have been using it, and it was the best character manager I had used to date when I got it).

I am very much in the camp that is preferable to do it right the first time, and I imagine the content market must be a bear of a project to make sure the UX is acceptable.

 

[Mmurphy]

It's not useful to you at all?

No, my GM'ing style is 'open'. I don't have any plan when the players and I come to the table. I let the players go where they want and do what they want, I make up the scene(s) as they are walking through them based on what they do. I have pre-generated maps (about 3-400) of various landscapes, towns, villages, buildings, and dungeons that I pull out when/if I ever need them. Most gaming sessions stop at a real time, usually right in the middle of something important going on so I don't need a 'set scene to stop the game at'.

What I wanted to use Realm Works for was to track 'what happened during the last game' and to track the calendar we us (30 days a month, 12 months a year--sun rises at exactly 6am and sets at exactly 6pm regardless of where you are in the world--A goddess controls the sun and she likes consistency--Year starts in Spring and ends in Winter). Since the calendar is a low priority and my typed notes into Word work for reminders, it is not very useful to me. I was hoping to use things like 'pirates guild to free port' and 'Grand temple of Jing' to see if 'pre-planned' modules work, but at this time, I have really stopped caring.

 

[Farling]

I certainly don't know how complex a software RealmWorks is. But nevertheless I can't imagine that it is impossible to code a migration routine to merge or copy existing realms within, say, four weeks:
- Collect the data (topics, categories, whatever) from a particular view that the user has to define; (1 week)
- Write the data to a file; (1 week including test)
- Read the data file into a new view in the destination realm, maybe automatically renaming conflicting topics so the user can sort it out afterwards;
(2 weeks including test).

What about remembering which bits of information (snippets?) are protected by a particular individually marked piece of IP and therefore can't be edited or shared with other realms owned by other people without owning either that data already or some other sort of license mechanism that allows sharing of some data?

How about creating a mass of new database IDs which will be unique for the new realm?

How about implementing their sharing approach, which is to share the realm within the cloud database so that changes to the original realm can easily be mapped across into the realm containing the share, without having to do another manual export and merge?

Even using your method, a second merge would cause conflicts between the contents of your "dump" file and the contents already in the realm, so we need to remember the original database ID as well as the final database ID. Then if the realm containing shared data is merged into a third realm, then you would have to store three database IDs for each piece of information (and extend that endlessly based on further realms, to storing an unspecified number of changes).

What if the original realm was shared into two other separate realms, and then you want to merge one of those separate realms into the other realm that already has parts of the original realm?

I somehow see that as more than 2 weeks of implementation; never even mind the number of tests which would need to be written to ensure that it will work under all conditions.

(Please note: I've been in the software industry for 28 years, and have been producing software estimates for future product evolutions for most of that time alongside actually implementing a lot of those estimates.)

P.S. Apologies to Rob for providing an incomplete analysis of your "merge" requirements, but I wrote the above in under 5 minutes. I didn't perform a full requirements breakdown, therefore there will be many missing requirements.

 

[Teresa]

In a general sense RW is an awesome monster of capability and adaptability, even if it is still missing so many functionalities (and some of them promised very early on).

On the other hand, the usefulness depends merely on each user's specific needs and style, which can make it then be described as a useless overgrown beast or as a wonderful work in progress (or anything in between).

For me, as a worldbuilder, not a gamer, RW is useful and, as calendars and the web-export thingie, plus printing and whatever other useful functionalities (that I don't know yet how great they'll be for me) will slowly make their appearance, its usefulness will increase.

I really do need the calendars now in order to fine tune my approach to Realm building, so I'm busying myself in other areas of my worldbuilding project that are in need of development outside RW.

 

[wurzel]

What about remembering which bits of information (snippets?) are protected by a particular individually marked piece of IP and therefore can't be edited or shared with other realms owned by other people without owning either that data already or some other sort of license mechanism that allows sharing of some data?

How about creating a mass of new database IDs which will be unique for the new realm?

How about implementing their sharing approach, which is to share the realm within the cloud database so that changes to the original realm can easily be mapped across into the realm containing the share, without having to do another manual export and merge?

Even using your method, a second merge would cause conflicts between the contents of your "dump" file and the contents already in the realm, so we need to remember the original database ID as well as the final database ID. Then if the realm containing shared data is merged into a third realm, then you would have to store three database IDs for each piece of information (and extend that endlessly based on further realms, to storing an unspecified number of changes).

What if the original realm was shared into two other separate realms, and then you want to merge one of those separate realms into the other realm that already has parts of the original realm?

I somehow see that as more than 2 weeks of implementation; never even mind the number of tests which would need to be written to ensure that it will work under all conditions.

(Please note: I've been in the software industry for 28 years, and have been producing software estimates for future product evolutions for most of that time alongside actually implementing a lot of those estimates.)

The way you estimate this seems to me a bit too complex. I don't think you need to carry around so many database IDs.
Just imagine that without a routine as mentioned, you do the migration manually. That may be with a simple cut&paste, or in the worst case retyping. You just migrate the content, no IDs at all. The routine simply makes this manual process more comfortable. *)

You are right, I don't take intellectual property into account. That is because I don't use content I didn't develop myself, and I don't intend to do it in the future. The DRM is for me out of focus. I just want to re-use my content in other realms, like many people here want to do.

You can of course avoid the IP problem by setting a no-copy database lock flag in realms containing IP content. I know that all realms are in one single database. If it proves to be too complex to lock only certain realms just lock the whole database. That way you help the people here with self-developed content.

At least until there is a sophisticated solution, maybe four or five years from now.

*) yes, when I still created program code myself, in the time when FORTRAN and Assembler were the languages of choice, I was known as "the master of quick & dirty solutions" but these solutions always worked well until something "real" came along.

 

[Farling]

You are right, I don't take intellectual property into account. That is because I don't use content I didn't develop myself, and I don't intend to do it in the future. The DRM is for me out of focus. I just want to re-use my content in other realms, like many people here want to do.

Without some sort of record of the origin of the data, you won't be able to perform a smooth re-merge later when you've updated both realms.

 

[Acenoid]

As posted sometime earlier already:
Imho if a Realm is free from 3rd Party stuff == nothing 3rd party copyrighted bought , merged , inserted it should be considered MY data (as the terms & conditions from RW say btw - which I like - seemingly they intend to respect that it's "our" data). And then I should have the full scope of features available to import / export / cut / paste.

Maybe watermark it a little, maybe show a disclaimer like they do on the movies, maybe even have a new option to convert your realm into a "no copyrighted material realm" which means that I am not allowed to insert such data in my realm. But somehow it should be possible to do what we would like with our own entered content. What use is "our" data, if it's not really ours (yet).

Another idea...
A setting upon realm creation that sets it up for copyright "limited" mode and no-copyrighted-stuff-allowed "full access" mode. Such full-access realms could only be merged with other realms in such status. Of course a "limited" copyright allowed realm is locked in this state....

I really want to make full use of the data stored in RW. And Iam sure LWD will find a good way. Hopefully in the foreseeable future ...

 

[AEIOU]

Rob and friends have, without a doubt, established a well-researched plan and are currently programming the best approach to sharing data. We can armchair program till the cows come home with what we think might be the perfect implementations, but the bottom line is that no matter what they do, it takes time. In this case, it apparently takes a LOT of time.

Intellectually, I understand this and agree with Rob's approach. But emotionally, I am so frustrated I could scream.

 

[Viking2054]

I'm sure Rob and the rest of the LWD staff working on RW also get frustrated. Remember, they don't have to satisfy just us, the user but also satisfy those IP holders and more importantly their lawyers. Some of the slowdown I'm sure belongs with the IP holders that are looking over LWD's shoulders every once in a while to see if the security can minimize any abuse of Intellectual Property.

 

[rob]

I hit some sort of performance limit on my laptop. RW has slowed to a crawl on it when I open the realm I actually have active players in. So it is hard to really keep expanding the realm until I solve the issue or get a new laptop.

This sounds like something you should open a support ticket about. We need to learn more about your realm so we can figure out what might be causing the slowdown.

 

[rob]

Removing my comment. I'm cranky after three years. And it's been a long week. I'll wait until I have something constructive to contribute.

Thank you for your discretion!

 

[rob]

P.S. Apologies to Rob for providing an incomplete analysis of your "merge" requirements, but I wrote the above in under 5 minutes. I didn't perform a full requirements breakdown, therefore there will be many missing requirements.

You identified a lot of the things we have to worry about. There's a long list of additional things as well, but your analysis definitely sheds some light on the various details we have to take into account, so it hopefully gives others a chance to understand that this isn't nearly as easy as users often think it is. So thank you for that!

 

[rob]

I'm sure Rob and the rest of the LWD staff working on RW also get frustrated.

That's one heck of an understatement! And the reasons for the frustration extend into many other areas beyond the ones you've cited above. But we're staying on course.

 

[rob]

More frequent updates would certainly create more activity on the forums and keep interest up. But it's also more time consuming to test and package incrementally. It's a trade-off.

If a lack of updates is the reason behind the lower activity, then things are definitely about to change in a very big way.

Based on having software tools for tabletop games for the last 18 years (scary, isn't it?), it's actual the time of year more than anything else. Things always die down come springtime. It's a combination of the warmer weather, school years ending (both for younger users and the kids of older users), and a variety of other facets. But it's consistent every year. So please don't read anything into the slower forum activity.