Adding an external rule to a context...

[HakujinGrande]

Is there a way to add a Ruleset defined in a seperate aug file to a rules context in another aug file? I looked, but I can't seem to find any such mechanism.

 

[rob]

We considered doing that, but it would have represented a fair amount of work and we couldn't think of a possible scenario in which it would be required. What type of situation would necessitate that a ruleset be defined in one augmentation file and used in a separate one? Shouldn't they be co-located in the same file? Please outline the reasoning behind doing this. I'm not opposed to putting it on the todo list, but I want to understand it.

Thanks, Rob


At 11:11 AM 12/24/2005, you wrote:

Is there a way to add a Ruleset defined in a seperate aug file to a rules context in another aug file? I looked, but I can't seem to find any such mechanism.

 

[HakujinGrande]

Each chapter (or flavor, for your sake, Rob) of Space Marines is implemented as a ruleset. All these rulesets are in a Context labeled "Chapter".
There are a number of Space Marine Chapters that do not yet have updated rules for 4th edition. It has been decided that these do not pass the criteria decided on for inclusion in the "official" WH40K datafile (Relictors, Cursed Founding Chapters, and Flesh Tearers for those in the know). I am attempting to make these chapters available to the more hobby/house rule oriented players (as opposed to tournament oriented players) using seperate dat, aug and ext files.

I did consider that it might be somewhat of a chore because of the display order of rulesets is specified within the Context.

The other idea I had was simply making another "Unofficial Chapter" context within the add-on files, and then adding a ruleset to the main context that enables the new context. The problem with that is that there is a similar functionality with the Dark Angel chapter having sub-lists, and those sub-lists are chosen from within a seperate rules context when the Dark Angel chapter is selected. The problem is that the seperate context only shows up after selecting the Dark Angels chapter, selecting "OK" to change the rules, and then re-opening the rules dialog. This annoys me, and I would like to avoid it if possible.

 

[rob]

I thought it was due to something like that. So the reason that we never thought of it as a need is that it actually wouldn't be needed if this essentially arbitrary separation between "official" and "unofficial" files weren't being imposed. I still don't understand the need for carving things up into physically separate sets of files based upon this ad hoc distinction, but it's not my call. At least I don't have to feel like we "missed something" here when we mapped things out. <shrug>

As you pointed out, adding rulesets to contexts after the fact will entail a good amount of work. It will also impact all the existing data files to retrofit this behavior cleanly. All for something that is seemingly unneeded from where I sit. I'll put it on the todo list, but I would MUCH rather spend the time adding truly useful functionality to the product instead of something like this that could be dealt with by avoiding an arbitrary and unnecessary physical separation of the data files in the first place. :-(

With regards to the Dark Angel ruleset behavior below, did it ever occur to anyone on the 40K team that perhaps the behavior you're getting wasn't "right"? Did anyone consider flagging this to Colen or I as a possible bug? Now, I'm not saying it IS a bug in AB. It sounds like it could be either a bug in AB or a bug in the way the data files have been written. But it definitely isn't behavior that should be simply accepted without question. That's just silly!

So why the heck hasn't anyone ever mentioned this to us?!?!

The "unofficial chapter" mechanism you descibe below might be the best solution given the way the 40K files are currently structured. I can't think of a better solution off the top of my head.

Please send directly to either Colen or I the excplicit instrutions on how to reproduce the problem with the Dark Angels that you describe below. We'll then investigate it on this end and determine whether it's a bug in AB or in the data files.

And, in the future, please notify us about things like this when they occur. Please????

Thanks, Rob


At 06:02 PM 12/29/2005, you wrote:

Each chapter (or flavor, for your sake, Rob) of Space Marines is implemented as a ruleset. All these rulesets are in a Context labeled "Chapter".
There are a number of Space Marine Chapters that do not yet have updated rules for 4th edition. It has been decided that these do not pass the criteria decided on for inclusion in the "official" WH40K datafile (Relictors, Cursed Founding Chapters, and Flesh Tearers for those in the know). I am attempting to make these chapters available to the more hobby/house rule oriented players (as opposed to tournament oriented players) using seperate dat, aug and ext files.

I did consider that it might be somewhat of a chore because of the display order of rulesets is specified within the Context.

The other idea I had was simply making another "Unofficial Chapter" context within the add-on files, and then adding a ruleset to the main context that enables the new context. The problem with that is that there is a similar functionality with the Dark Angel chapter having sub-lists, and those sub-lists are chosen from within a seperate rules context when the Dark Angel chapter is selected. The problem is that the seperate context only shows up after selecting the Dark Angels chapter, selecting "OK" to change the rules, and then re-opening the rules dialog. This annoys me, and I would like to avoid it if possible.

 

[HakujinGrande]

If it has that much of an impact on the existing datafiles, I'd much rather use the other mechanism that I mentioned. I also believe the seperation of these rules is arbitrary and unnecessary, but the current leadership is rather bent on tournament/4th ed only core datafiles at the expense of the hobby gamer. But as you said, it's also not my call, so I'm trying to make a solution that should keep everyone happy.

As per the bug:
With the latest WH40K update, and the SM Update 1.10b, available here:
http://ab40k3.homelinux.net/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=277

Starting a new roster, from the "Chapter" rules context, select "Dark Angels"
When "Dark Angels" is selected a new rules context names "DA Subset" should appear with the options "Standard", "Deathwing" and "Ravenwing"

However, this Rules context only appears after selecing "OK" and then re-opening the Change Rules dialog.

I am also now noticing that the "DA Subset" remains active if you select another chapter, until you close and re-open the Change Rules dialog.

 

[HakujinGrande]

I'd like to revisit this one... In my BFG work, I've run across a situation where this might be useful.
In BFG, they are a ton of rules out there that are considered "House Rules" that I would like to accomodate,
because in my experience it is a more "relaxed" gaming environment than 40K. In Forgeworld's Imperial Armour 3,
there are several new Tau ships that I would consider semi-official. There is also a fleet list being developed
on the BFG forums using the same ship models and names, but entirely different stats. This second set of rules
is definately condisered experimental and house rules at this time.

For sanity's sake I would like to keep the two rulesets seperated. There is also a whole backcatalog of BFG magazines
full of rules that are now considered "House Rules" at this point that I would like to include at some point, preferably
in a seperate file for organization's sake.

I know that this may again seem like an arbitrary distinction, but I think it's a bit less arbitrary than the situation
with the 40K files. On the BFG rules, there is a hard and fast line between official and non-official rules.

Just something to consider.