Adding A Rule Set Via Separate Files...

[ChainsawXIV]

I’ve been trying to add a new rule set to the Warhammer Fantasy army list for Vampire Counts and I’ve run into a couple snags that I’m hoping someone can help me out with.

I’ve created the list as a separate data file so that it can be stacked in with the basic WHF material, but I need to exclude a bunch of units from the basic Vampire Counts list from showing up in this one, and I can’t figure out how to do that without altering the membership tags in the original vampire counts data file. Can this be done? If so, could you please toss a newby a clue as to how?

Additionally, is it possible to add to, alter, or override values in an AUG file from a second file? I need to add my rule set to the Vampire Counts context list, and change the the validation script in the Profile tab, but i don't see how to do this without altering the original AUG file.

Thanks!

[Edited my second question for clarity.]

 

[rob]

You can override the Member tag expression with additional constraints from within an extention file. You'll need to go to the Expr tab within ABCreator, then create an expression override. Specify the parent type as "unit" and the expression type as "member". Then add the additional constraints. For documenation on this see the chapter on Extension Files and refer to the Entity Overrides section.

Unfortunately, you can NOT reliably override information within an augmentation file. I'm not sure exactly how the WFB files are written, but the loading sequence is fixed. Augmentation files are guaranteed to load after the definition file. However, there is no guarantee of the order in which augmentation files are loaded. That means that having one augmentation file override details within another is not guaranteed to work. It might work on one computer, but not on another, depending on the order in which the operating system retrieves the two files. I've just put this on the todo list, since there are a number of game systems that inherently utilize augmentation/extension files and there's no way to reliably override those files with user-defined data. I never realized this detail until now.

Thanks, Rob


At 10:20 AM 3/18/2006, you wrote:

I’ve been trying to add a new rule set to the Warhammer Fantasy army list for Vampire Counts and I’ve run into a couple snags that I’m hoping someone can help me out with.

I’ve created the list as a separate data file so that it can be stacked in with the basic WHF material, but I need to exclude a bunch of units from the basic Vampire Counts list from showing up in this one, and I can’t figure out how to do that without altering the membership tags in the original vampire counts data file. Can this be done? If so, could you please toss a newby a clue as to how?

Additionally, is it possible to add to, alter, or override values from an AUG file from a second file? This will be necessary for me to actually add the rule set to the list. I should (if I understand things correctly) be able to add the rule set itself, as well as the group that I’m using, but is it possible to add my rule set to the Vampire Counts context list without altering the original AUG file?

Thanks!

 

[ChainsawXIV]

Thanks for the assistance. I’ll give the membership script setup a shot when I get home from work.

On the topic of overriding files, if I understand you correctly, the overriding system you’ve described would make it necessary to include the context information from the original file in the over-riding file (since the new list would over-ride the old completely), and this would then require updates of the over-riding list whenever the base list changed. With that in mind it would be even more useful if the application could combine data from same-named lists from multiple files. This could be really useful functionality in other list based areas as well, such as unit tags and options.

On a separate note, there was a addition to my second question that I edited in (looks from the quote box like you got the un-edited text) with regard to the scripts on the Profile tab and over-riding the validation rules there. It may well fall under the issue you’ve already covered, but I figure I’ve got to ask to be sure. Basically, I’m looking to use different validation rules scripts (which reside in Profiles) for a rule set without altering the existing scripts, and I’m not sure how to make that happen.

 

[rob]

With the overriding of tag expressions, you CAN merge your new restrictions into the base set. When you define the new tag expression, you specify whether it should be applied via an AND or an OR or an XOR to the original tagexpr.

I monitor the support site via email only, so I don't receive any edits - only the original posts. That's why I didn't see your edits.

Unfortunately, you can't modify profiles externally via the expression overrides mechanism. We couldn't think of why anyone would want to do that, so we didn't include it. :-( I've put this on the todo list, but that doesn't do you any good right now.

Give me more details on exactly what you're trying to accomplish and I'll see if I can think up a way to get things to work within the current framework that's available.

-Rob

At 02:44 PM 3/20/2006, you wrote:

Thanks for the assistance. I’ll give the membership script setup a shot when I get home from work.

On the topic of overriding files, if I understand you correctly, the overriding system you’ve described would make it necessary to include the context information from the original file in the over-riding file (since the new list would over-ride the old completely), and this would then require updates of the over-riding list whenever the base list changed. With that in mind it would be even more useful if the application could combine data from same-named lists from multiple files. This could be really useful functionality in other list based areas as well, such as unit tags and options.

On a separate note, there was a addition to my second question that I edited in (looks from the quote box like you got the un-edited text) with regard to the scripts on the Profile tab and over-riding the validation rules there. It may well fall under the issue you’ve already covered, but I figure I’ve got to ask to be sure. Basically, I’m looking to use different validation rules scripts (which reside in Profiles) for a rule set without altering the existing scripts, and I’m not sure how to make that happen.

 

[ChainsawXIV]

The extension file worked like a charm – thanks for the assist there

To give you the details and examples, the last bits of what I’m looking to do are these:

1. Update the validation rules to reflect the fact that one of the units in the army’s core list does not actually count towards the required number of core choices. The relevant portion of that validation (looking at the other WH files for reference) is performed in the Final script for a Profile defined in the AUG file for the army, and I can call my adjusting function there if needs be. That, however, requires me to edit the base AUG file itself, resulting in the liabilities I mentioned before.

So, by way of details, I have defined a function in my own DAT file called vcCairnCor, which will make the necesary variable ajustment within the existing validation script when inserted like so:

var total as number
total = custom

~ Adjust our total appropriately
call vcProfCore
call vcCairnCor

@bar = total
@text = total
@valid = isvalid

This works fine, except that I’d like to end up with the same results without the need to modify the existing script. I suspect that this will fall under the same issue previously discussed, but if a workaround can be devised – such as being able to call a totally different validation Profile for my rule set in particular – that would be excellent.

2. Add my new army list to the alternate rules choice for the Vampire Counts army, which requires that my army rule set (vcCairns) be added to the context list for that army’s sub-types (vcSubtype), which presently resides within the originally distributed AUG file (vampirecounts.aug). It looks like this just won’t be possible at the moment, if I’ve understood your previous responses correctly, but I’d love to be wrong.

Thanks a ton for the help

 

[rob]

Unfortunately, neither of these objectives can be accomplished without directly modifying the core data files. I'm flagging this email as something that we need to look into when we're working on V3.2 later this year. Until then, I'm afraid your stuck. :-(

Thanks, Rob

At 04:50 PM 3/20/2006, you wrote:

The extension file worked like a charm – thanks for the assist there

To give you the details and examples, the last bits of what I’m looking to do are these:

1. Update the validation rules to reflect the fact that one of the units in the army’s core list does not actually count towards the required number of core choices. The relevant portion of that validation (looking at the other WH files for reference) is performed in the Final script for a Profile defined in the AUG file for the army, and I can call my adjusting function there if needs be. That, however, requires me to edit the base AUG file itself, resulting in the liabilities I mentioned before.

So, by way of details, I have defined a function in my own DAT file called vcCairnCor, which will make the necesary variable ajustment within the existing validation script when inserted like so:

Code:
var total as number
total = custom

~ Adjust our total appropriately
call vcProfCore
call vcCairnCor

@bar = total
@text = total
@valid = isvalid


This works fine, except that I’d like to end up with the same results without the need to modify the existing script. I suspect that this will fall under the same issue previously discussed, but if a workaround can be devised – such as being able to call a totally different validation Profile for my rule set in particular – that would be excellent.

2. Add my new army list to the alternate rules choice for the Vampire Counts army, which requires that my army rule set (vcCairns) be added to the context list for that army’s sub-types (vcSubtype), which presently resides within the originally distributed AUG file (vampirecounts.aug). It looks like this just won’t be possible at the moment, if I’ve understood your previous responses correctly, but I’d love to be wrong.

Thanks a ton for the help

 

[ChainsawXIV]

No worries - I can work around it until a better options is available. Thanks much.

 

[HakujinGrande]

Yeah, being able to modify profiles from an external file would have been nice for the Space Wolves. They don't follow the standard force organization of 1-2 HQ. They need 1 HQ for every 750 points of the army, no more, no less.

 

[rob]

Can't you just setup a completely separate set of profiles for the Space Wolves? When designing this, Colen and I concluded that differences like this would be easiest to manage by simply having a separate set of profiles for the separate army, but apparently that's not a viable option for you. I assume I'm missing something that is obvious to a 40K player, so please educate me on this....

-Rob

At 12:36 PM 3/22/2006, you wrote:

Yeah, being able to modify profiles from an external file would have been nice for the Space Wolves. They don't follow the standard force organization of 1-2 HQ. They need 1 HQ for every 750 points of the army, no more, no less.

 

[HakujinGrande]

No, I'm just saying it would have been nice to keep special exeptions like that out of the main def file. We handled it with a seperate profile.

 

[ChainsawXIV]

I’m sure this is a newby question, but how would you direct an army sub-type to use a different profile than is normal for that army? Or are the Space Wolves set up as an entirely separate army, rather than a sub-type? (I’m not familiar with the way the 40k data files are set up). In principle, if I can set my sub-type to use a different profile all together, then that would allow me to side step at least one of the issues originally discussed here.

 

[harkan]

if you go into race in the def file and add the new profile into that for the overall army then on the profile tab go to the relevant new profile, click on active and add in the equivalent of a live tag, i.e.

ruleset.altVamps

In the original profile go into the active section again and add something similar to:

!ruleset.altVamps