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A mechanics question

P

ParsiusPathfinder

Member
Does anyone know how you would set up (or the code for) an automatic penalty of -4 to initiative when a 2-handed martial or exotic weapon is equipped?

I started playing in 1981 and miss the drawback two-handed weapons always had of going last. I find everyone who takes barbarians also takes greataxe, and why not when it's as quick as a dagger thrust?
 
Just Melee. Without a drawback they're a bit OP and draw the min/max-ers.

Originally ranged weapons went first. High Dex kinda makes up for that no longer being the case.
 
First you'll need to foreach through all equipped weapons on the hero looking for at least 1 which is a 2 handed melee weapon, then apply the penalty.

PostLevel 10000
Code: 
var eqpcount as number

foreach pick in hero from BaseWep where "Hero.MainHand & wClass.TwoHanded & wCategory.Melee"
  eqpcount += 1
  nexteach

if (eqpcount <> 0) then
  hero.child[Initiative].field[Bonus].value -= 4
  endif

Script not tested, you may need to adjust it.
 
Last edited:
Leaving the code behind for a second and think game play mechanics.

How do you enforce this mechanic? do you require a -4 after a weapon is drawn? thats usually after initial Initiative is rolled and calculated, do you assign it just because they have one on them? even if they decide this combat to pull the bow instead?

Or in your world does everyone walk around wielding their weapons at all times, as one of my players argued.....Until the first town he walked into and was made a pin cushion by 12 Heavy crossbow wielding guards who shot first and asked the "why do you have your sword our like your going to attack?" question later. Problem solved.

I get what your saying, speed factor was in a big part of AD&D. However how many barbarians in myth/story wielded +2 vicious bunny killing daggers? If your going to nik the two handed weapons, be careful the first smart guy in the group will argue a rapier is usless against a full plate wearing tank, which will lead to the two handed sword guys wanting a bonus when they attack a person in leather or robes. Better yet, an arguement over how can a dagger wielding guy get close to a guy wielding two axes?

3.x game rules did away with alot of nick-pick rules for good reason, be careful you do not open the door for them to return enmass. You may regret it. :)
 
2e's Weapon Speed Factor rules were abandoned in 3.0 and later editions. Initiative modifiers in Pathfinder would be taken into account based on what weapon you have equipped currently in my opinion. If you're currently holding a 2 handed sword, and you want to apply a -4 penalty to initiative to that character it should be applied as soon as the weapon is equipped until the character changes or drops the weapon, as it would be a constant penalty for wielding a 2 handed weapon.
 
Aaron said:
First you'll need to foreach through all equipped weapons on the hero looking for at least 1 which is a 2 handed melee weapon, then apply the penalty.

PostLevel 10000
Code: 
var eqpcount as number

foreach pick in hero from BaseWep where "Hero.MainHand & wClass.TwoHanded & wCategory.Melee"
  eqpcount += 1
  nexteach

if (eqpcount <> 0) then
  hero.child[Initiative].field[Bonus].value -= 4
  endif

Script not tested, you may need to adjust it.
Click to expand...
Just so everyone is on the same page. The way Aaron wrote the script it only gives the penalty if it finds a Two-Handed Melee weapon that is Equipped. :)
 
Exmortis said:
Leaving the code behind for a second and think game play mechanics.

How do you enforce this mechanic? do you require a -4 after a weapon is drawn? thats usually after initial Initiative is rolled and calculated, do you assign it just because they have one on them? even if they decide this combat to pull the bow instead?

Or in your world does everyone walk around wielding their weapons at all times, as one of my players argued.....Until the first town he walked into and was made a pin cushion by 12 Heavy crossbow wielding guards who shot first and asked the "why do you have your sword our like your going to attack?" question later. Problem solved.

I get what your saying, speed factor was in a big part of AD&D. However how many barbarians in myth/story wielded +2 vicious bunny killing daggers? If your going to nik the two handed weapons, be careful the first smart guy in the group will argue a rapier is usless against a full plate wearing tank, which will lead to the two handed sword guys wanting a bonus when they attack a person in leather or robes. Better yet, an arguement over how can a dagger wielding guy get close to a guy wielding two axes?

3.x game rules did away with alot of nick-pick rules for good reason, be careful you do not open the door for them to return enmass. You may regret it. :)
Click to expand...
Yea I have to agree. If I was a player in this game I would say sure no problem and would never carry a weapon out. Remember I can draw a greatsword as free action when I move to attack creature (as long as a I have a BAB+1). If combat always starts without me moving I would pick up Quick Draw and again just free draw the weapon after combat starts.

So your -4 has really no affect. Not including exact order in imitative is not a big deal as the d20 roll is so random that I may still go first even with a -4 penalty. :(

From personal experience don't bring old rules into Pathfinder until you have gamed a campaign for at least a year. Issues you think you see either don't exist or work totally different at an actual game. That is my advice from someone that carried over old baggage into 3.x and really messed up my game!
 
Thanks

Thanks everyone for all the info.

By the way, if you draw a 2-hander in battle just adjust the person's Initiative score and place in the order. If they switch weapons, they go back. Actions particularly Hold adjust the order all the time. I stared when it was all paper and pencil, when even a random monster generator was beyond current computer tech (I used up the poor old Vic20's awesome 20k pretty fast), adjustments on the fly are second nature.

I've also added a defense bonus equal to 1/3 of BAB, a bunch of racial magical abilities, powers granted by each god, and am working on a variant magic system that collapses divine and arcane magic into one pool of spells with priests and druids as INT casters called magicians along with conjurers, wizards, mages, necromancers, and enchanters, plus wisdom-based sorcerers called mystics.

That's why I've fallen completely in love with this program. Ive been looking for something like it for decades. Since the second cover of 1st ed. The only frustration is lack of programming experience. And I find it hard to find lists of things like the ids for ability scores, base attack, and other things. The instructions might be there somewhere, but its a scavenger hunt to find it.

Oops, :o didn't mean to ramble and rant.

Again thanks. Got some code to try. :-)
 
Be sure to check out the Glossary of Terms. Then check out FAQ#2 for all the places to find help on the Editor. Plus several different Intro Videos are now available including the ones from this last GenCon. That FAQ#2 has links to all that. :)

And I agree about looking for a long time for HL software. I even tested the software out for 9 months before buying. I wanted to be sure I could really code in all my houserules into HL. Now every one of players has it and we want game without! :)
 
After the test

I've tried the code and it works wonderfully for the most part. Is there a way to keep it from adjusting simple weapons, just martial and exotic? something like the "wCategory.Melee" code?
 
ParsiusPathfinder said:
Thanks everyone for all the info.

That's why I've fallen completely in love with this program. Ive been looking for something like it for decades. Since the second cover of 1st ed. The only frustration is lack of programming experience. And I find it hard to find lists of things like the ids for ability scores, base attack, and other things. The instructions might be there somewhere, but its a scavenger hunt to find it.

Oops, :o didn't mean to ramble and rant.

Again thanks. Got some code to try. :-)
Click to expand...

OH yes here we agree, HeroLab is the best of its product kind I have ever used. I would like to see some improved UI features, but taken as a whole, it is one awesome game support application.
 
ParsiusPathfinder said:
I've tried the code and it works wonderfully for the most part. Is there a way to keep it from adjusting simple weapons, just martial and exotic? something like the "wCategory.Melee" code?
Click to expand...
Video#3 goes over how to find/debug stuff. In this case it would cover how to find the right "Tag" to change the search expression.

In simple terms. Add an Exotic weapon to your character. Go to "Develop->Enable File Debugging". Then RIGHT click on the "?" on the exotic weapon and click "Show Tags". You will be shown all the tags on that weapon.
 
Still confused

I checked out the video and the floating lists and still can't figure out what code to use where. Can you simply add something like "not wCategory.Simple" (is it "wClass.Simple") to the eval script provided earlier in this thread? Or do you need a pre-req, or eval rule or something? The mechanic works wonderfully as provided, I just want to eliminate simple weapons like spear and quarterstaff from the initiative adjustment.

Sorry to be a bother. I'm not much of a coder and don't have a lot of spare time to dedicate to learning.

Thanks.
 
Tag you need is "wProfReq.Simple"

PostLevel 10000
Code: 
var eqpcount as number

foreach pick in hero from BaseWep where "Hero.MainHand & wClass.TwoHanded & wCategory.Melee & !wProfReq.Simple"
  eqpcount += 1
  nexteach

if (eqpcount <> 0) then
  hero.child[Initiative].field[Bonus].value -= 4
  endif
 
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