+1 Skill die or start with d4?

[zarlor]

So I have something I want to add, specifically I'm adding the Coup effects for Bogie Man from Deadlands, and that gives you a +1 die-type to Stealth or gives it to you at d4 if you don't have Stealth. Normally when doing this I've done it at character creation to start something at d6 so you just Bootstrap the skill and then code the bonus in, but in this case I'm not sure how to handle it.

I could Bootstrap the skill, if it already exists for the character that will just do nothing. But I can't just to the straight EvalRule I would normally use at PreTraits/5000:

foreach pick in hero where "thingid.skStealth"
  eachpick.field[trtBonus].value += 1
nexteach

Which is all fine and dandy if they already had Stealth, but if I had to Bootstrap it I would need the above to not happen. I'm not exactly sure how to make a Tag to check for that, though. I did notice that Bootstrap has available a "Condition..." button, which pulls up the Container Requirement box, so I'm wondering if that's a way to conditionally prevent the Bootstrap from happening, although I'm not exactly sure how I could use that right now. At any rate, if anyone has some thoughts I'd sure appreciate it. Sometimes finding the right logic just eludes me.

 

[SeeleyOne]

You can bootstrap a skill when an edge is selected in advancement. Or, what I mean is that when a character is advancong, they take the edge and get the skill.

The difference is that normally wheyn you do it, you want to make it not cost any points for that first skill rank. So we often make it cancel out the cost. This works great for character creation, but when actually advancing the character it gives back points from the creation mode. Not a big deal but it marks Skills as an error and has leftover points for the skills aquired from being bootstrapped to edges.

I had not figured out the difference. I decided to just have the edge not counterbalance the skill cost at creation. Yeah, you can lose a few skill points this way at character creation, but getting a skill at d4 is at a disadvantage as it cannot be pumped up like at character creatopn.

So to summarize, according to my current knowledge, you can bootstrap a skill to an edge, but you have to decide if it is at creation only (and counter the skill point cost) or just leave it (and not get the free skill point at character creation).

 

[zarlor]

I'm not sure we're talking the same thing. In this case I'm looking at adding neither at character creation nor at advancement. Being a Coup effect it could be taken at any time so in this case I'd include it as a Hindrance, since the Advance mechanic can be used to add a Hindrance for "free". So I'm not really using an Edge at all, but that's not necessarily relevant here anyway.

Instead the basic logic I have to follow (outside of character creation or standard advancement) is if skStealth exists, increment it by 1 die, if it does not exist then simply Bootstrap the skill but do not further increment the skill. Advancement or skill point costs are irrelevant to the procedure I need to occur, though, so I don't want anything to affect those.

EDIT: Or was that meant as an answer to jbearwillis' other thread?

 

[SeeleyOne]

I do not know how the Coup thing works. I was thinking that you are saying that it is from a Racial Property or somesuch (or maybe an edge).
Do you turn it on and off?

Maybe a different thread was affected my take on the question

 

[zarlor]

Well, Coup is not all that important to it, it's not a part of the program, but I decided to implement it as a Hindrance although the code is basically the same as an Edge. But maybe we're going at cross-purposes here? I'm not certain how your response applies to what I'm trying to work out, though.

 

[jbearwillis]

I think I understand the just of what you are trying to do

1) The mechanic is automatic to the character and allows you to take a Hindrance for "free that works as #2 and #3.
2) what it does is if you don't have the stealth skill it gives said skill at d4.
3) If you have the skill already, it will give said skill a +1 die rise instead.

Is that the just of what your trying to do.

 

[zarlor]

Yes, that's the gist of it. The 1) part of that isn't all that important. The fact that it is a Hindrance is only important because it's an easy way to allow something to happen without having to mess with the Advance mechanic at all (and therefore having to give your character a Permanent Adjustment for something like an extra Edge in order to take it, and so on.) It's a nicety and not at all what I'm having a problem with. And maybe I completely confused they issue by even bringing it up.

The problem comes in trying to do 2 and 3. I can't quite figure out how to do it while working around the fact that we have no real way to do a conditional Bootstrap.

So I know how to do the Bootstrap and I know how to do the die increase but I can't figure out how to only do one or the other, but not both, appropriately.

Let's see if this explains the scenarios.

1) If I Bootstrap the Skill and the character does not have the skill then it will add the skill (at d4).

2) If he does have the skill then nothing happens. So far so good.

3) Now the Eval Script code will increment the skill 1 die type. If the character already has the skill then step 2 happened (so nothing) and it will increment it 1 die type which is correct.

4) But, if the character did not have the skill then it got bootstrapped in step 1) and then the code will now increment that d4 up to a d6, and that's not what I wanted.

And thus the conundrum. I hope that narrows it down better and makes more sense. Sorry for the confusion on all of this.

 

[jbearwillis]

LOL I think we had this discussion in another thread or close to it - about raising an attribute up, but when we added the + die it would then add the +1 if that bonus brought it up to a d12 - I don't know if you remember that or not and - I don't think we ever really got that answered or working correctly.

 

[zarlor]

Yeah, kind of a different issue, but it is based on increasing a stat. And I agree, I think Caped mentioned something about taking a look at it but I don't know that anything came of it yet.

 

[SeeleyOne]

OK, so the problem is that you have an either-or issue. You want to add a die to Stealth if you already have it, OR you want d4 Stealth if you don't have it. As you mentioned above, according to our knowledge you cannot do it with the same Hindrance/Injury/Condition.

Well, why not just make two of them, then?

Coup +1 Stealth could have a requirement of d4 Stealth

Coup of d4 Stealth could have a requirement that Stealth is 0 (the >0 or whatever the exact code is, like checking if an Edge exists).

This way you can still use it, and you cannot select the wrong one on accident.

 

[zarlor]

I suppose that could work. Not elegant, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. It always helps to have some other brains going at some of this stuff, that's for sure. Thanks.