Announcement about Subscriptions

[dacoobob]

I think the announced model is progress, and I’m not ungrateful. I think the patron licence option is pretty good for groups of players who campaign.
We however are a gaming couple doing organised play, and though the patron licence will let us share bought resources, it will cost $65... more than twice the standard licence subscription. Whilst I understand sharing resources must cost more than a single licence, this seems like a big hike in price when we’ll get no additional benefit from it.
It would be good for this kind of position to be considered in any future licensing modifications.

do you mean sharing purchased content between the two of you? in that case you don't both need Patron accounts, just one Patron account and one Apprentice account (total price $30).

if you mean sharing content with your players at Organized Play events (with both you and your wife GMing different tables simultaneously) then yes, you'd both need full accounts. but i'm not sure what you mean by "we’ll get no additional benefit from it"-- isn't the ability to share your purchased content with whoever shows up to your tables a benefit? or am i misunderstanding you?

 

[dacoobob]

Buts that's half the purpose. If eople can't access the loot I'm handing out because they haven't got the module it's from then everything breaks.

come on, a DEMO account has to have some sort of restrictions or LW is just giving their product away for free. Wizards can afford to do that with D&D Beyond since they own the game system itself-- D&D Beyond is mostly a way to get more people into playing D&D, so Wizards can sell them their main products--the rulebooks, modules, minis, et cetera. D&D Beyond doesn't have to be profitable on its own; even if it loses money on subscriptions, it still generates revenue for the company overall. it's basically a marketing expense.

LW on the other hand doesn't sell Pathfinder/Starfinder/Shadowrun books, so they have to make a profit on the HeroLab software itself. plus, LW has to pay Paizo and Catalyst for the rights to use their published content. that's why the comparison to D&D Beyond doesn't really work-- from a business standpoint it's a totally different situation.

 

[Shadowfoot]

I have some questions

1. I just received the receipt for HLO Standard Level (Add 12 Months) as I set it to auto renew.
   Can someone confirm that HLO Promote Standard to Patron (12 months) is on top of this, so it will cost me GM $75/year?
2. Is there a limit to the number of apprentices in a campaign? I have 6 players.
3. I created each of my players' characters on my account so that their characters could use the books I bought. Can I transfer this to their apprentice accounts or do the characters need to be recreated?
4. Can I view characters created by my apprentices? This will allow me to validate their choices and assist with builds.

 

[Roadie]

The one thing I really don't understand here is why Apprentice has a 4-month term instead of the same 6/12 month term as the others. Charging $7.50 for 6 months or $3.75 for 3 months would work out to the same overall price and get rid of the "huh?" reaction that I and no doubt others had from it.

I have some questions

1. I just received the receipt for HLO Standard Level (Add 12 Months) as I set it to auto renew.
   Can someone confirm that HLO Promote Standard to Patron (12 months) is on top of this, so it will cost me GM $75/year?

If you add it to your cart it'll show you a "Credit for Remaining Standard Level", so it looks like the listed amount is the full price, but you get the pro-rated amount of any existing subscription subtracted from that.

So, if you got Standard for $X and then get Patron for $Y, on the second transaction you're actually only paying $(Y – X) (with whatever tiny adjustment for the number of days it's been, pro-rated).

I think they should put some kind of disclaimer on that page to make this clearer, like "Your current service will apply as credit on the shopping cart page" in yellow text.

 

[rob]

I have some questions

1. I just received the receipt for HLO Standard Level (Add 12 Months) as I set it to auto renew.
   Can someone confirm that HLO Promote Standard to Patron (12 months) is on top of this, so it will cost me GM $75/year?
2. Is there a limit to the number of apprentices in a campaign? I have 6 players.
3. I created each of my players' characters on my account so that their characters could use the books I bought. Can I transfer this to their apprentice accounts or do the characters need to be recreated?
4. Can I view characters created by my apprentices? This will allow me to validate their choices and assist with builds.

If you have already renewed at Standard level for 12 months, upgrading to Patron level for 12 months is an additional $24.99.

Your entire campaign can consist of Apprentice level players. Campaigns are currently capped at 12 total members, including the GM, so you could have up to 11 players at Apprentice level.

Within a campaign that has content sharing enabled, your players CAN create characters that take full advantage of all the content the GM owns. They can also fully evolve those characters over time as they level up.

If you already have characters created for your players, you can first convert them to GM-controlled characters and then assign control of those characters to the appropriate players.

All characters within a campaign should be viewable by the GM, regardless of whether they are player-owned or campaign-owned to leverage content sharing.

Hope this helps!

 

[rob]

I think they should put some kind of disclaimer on that page to make this clearer, like "Your current service will apply as credit on the shopping cart page" in yellow text.

We'll get that added!

 

[evdjj3j]

I'm looking at my HLO license online and it says it expires in 2038 is that correct?

 

[rob]

I'm looking at my HLO license online and it says it expires in 2038 is that correct?

That likely means you're flagged as part of the original Beta team. We'll be reviewing the Beta team again in the weeks ahead, but your license is not currently in need of renewal.

 

[ronlugge]

Wizards can afford to do that with D&D Beyond since they own the game system itself-- D&D Beyond is mostly a way to get more people into playing D&D, so Wizards can sell them their main products--the rulebooks, modules, minis, et cetera. D&D Beyond doesn't have to be profitable on its own; even if it loses money on subscriptions, it still generates revenue for the company overall. it's basically a marketing expense.

Your entire comment fails on the simple fact that Wizards doesn't run D&D Beyond, Twitch does.

 

[Shadowfoot]

If you have already renewed at Standard level for 12 months, upgrading to Patron level for 12 months is an additional $24.99.

Your entire campaign can consist of Apprentice level players. Campaigns are currently capped at 12 total members, including the GM, so you could have up to 11 players at Apprentice level.

Within a campaign that has content sharing enabled, your players CAN create characters that take full advantage of all the content the GM owns. They can also fully evolve those characters over time as they level up.

If you already have characters created for your players, you can first convert them to GM-controlled characters and then assign control of those characters to the appropriate players.

All characters within a campaign should be viewable by the GM, regardless of whether they are player-owned or campaign-owned to leverage content sharing.

Hope this helps!

Thank you. That is very helpful. I'll upgrade and see which of my players converts their demo accounts to apprentice.

 

[rob]

Before this turns into a contentious subject...

Question: Why don't we allow free accounts to fully leverage content sharing the way D&D Beyond does?

Answers: Those free accounts aren't truly free with D&D Beyond. They are paid for by having to deal with an abundance of ads, and those ads are paid for by the companies behind those ads. All those ads are possible due to Twitch's massive ad-focused infrastructure that's designed for exactly that purpose. We don't have that option, and I'd resist going there even if it was available, so we introduced the low-cost Apprentice level to cover the costs of supporting those accounts. It's a little more than a dollar a month, which is probably a lot less than Twitch is bringing in from all those ads. And a whole lot less annoying for users (IMHO).

 

[Toblakai]

Your entire comment fails on the simple fact that Wizards doesn't run D&D Beyond, Twitch does.

So instead of an $11 billion company running it is a $982 billion company. Hmm that seems like LWD's value right?

 

[rob]

So instead of an $11 billion company running it is a $982 billion company. Hmm that seems like LWD's value right?

Sold!

 

[Cheldog]

I've got a question regarding the Patron subscription. So, I have been using HLO for a while now and I really enjoy it. I own most of the content on HLO for Pathfinder 2E already, but I am not the GM for my group. If I purchase a Patron subscription to share my content with the rest of my group, is there a way to transfer GM capabilities of a campaign to someone else?

 

[rob]

If I purchase a Patron subscription to share my content with the rest of my group, is there a way to transfer GM capabilities of a campaign to someone else?

Not at the present time. That's definitely on the punch list, but it's not something we're targeting within the next month, at least.

 

[Cheldog]

Not at the present time. That's definitely on the punch list, but it's not something we're targeting within the next month, at least.

Alright, thanks. That said, there's no reason that I couldn't share my content with the other players for at least character creation and playing from the character sheets, right? The GM just wouldn't have access to the campaign management tools?

 

[bruuuuuu]

Thanks for the work on this guys! It's not yet what I really need for my games, but it's good to see the product moving in that direction. I eagerly await the rest of the developments that I hope are on the horizon (if not on the nearer parts of the horizon).

 

[rob]

Alright, thanks. That said, there's no reason that I couldn't share my content with the other players for at least character creation and playing from the character sheets, right? The GM just wouldn't have access to the campaign management tools?

That would work. And the GM could also use the CT tools by creating Stand-In PCs for the players running from the character sheets. Then there would be a coordinated initiative tracking mechanism. And the GM could also use CT to setup scene scripts with assorted monsters and whatnot to enact onto the stage.

 

[Noigo]

I just purchased a HLO license for Shadowrun 6E, before the new licence options were rolled out. I would like to allow my players to use the character generation features themselves. How do I do that? Do I need to upgrade to Patron and they all need Apprentice?

 

[rob]

I just purchased a HLO license for Shadowrun 6E, before the new licence options were rolled out. I would like to allow my players to use the character generation features themselves. How do I do that? Do I need to upgrade to Patron and they all need Apprentice?

Exactly.