Death_Jester
Member
There is some disagreement about Synthacardium adding its bonus to Full Defense tests when using Gymnastics instead of Dodge in the bugs thread. I figured I'd start a different thread so the bug thread doesn't get cluttered. The initial posts were as follows:
There doesn't seem to be any clarification in the Errata or FAQ, so it comes down to what is written in the core book. I'm going to put down some things I believe to be true.
- Synthacardium adds its bonus on any Athletic Test.
- The book does not say what an Athletic Test is.
- Gymnastics is in the Athletics skill group.
- Full Defense is an Opposed Test.
- You may use Gymnastics as a part of the Full Defense Opposed Test.
Since there are only three types of tests listed in the core book, namely Success Tests, Opposed Tests, and Extended Tests, the wording of the Synthacardium can be pretty misleading. Shadowrun often uses terms interchangeably and occasionally in ways that seem to specifically direct the reader away from what is actually intended. There are no direct rules for a Skill Test mechanic specifically, yet the book talks about a need to make an Infiltration Test on pg. 118 under Skill Ratings. There are of course many other examples of this, but the book doesn't clarify that all of these are just simple forms of writing out something that will make sense with a player. The closest thing the SR4A book comes to defining a "skill test" is on pg. 68 top right paragraph under Skills. All it says there though is that the skill+linked attribute is what makes up the dice pool for skill tests. The sentence is clearly a general description, since that is not always the case. The skill section specifically states that linked attributes are 'usually' used, but aren't always.
This gets further complicated with examples of (Skill Group) Tests. Such as an Athletics or Electronics test. You can't actually test anything off of Athletics and the rules don't tell us how to use that reference. For abilities using those terms to work at all, someone reading it must extrapolate that any skill in that group being used in the test should benefit (in my opinion). Having it spelled out somewhere would be great, but the game developers aren't perfect. I've seen it said elsewhere that Tests using a skill but not the linked attribute may not be a Skill Test, but this seems untrue based on the entire Matrix system not using linked attributes for tests.
With the Synthacardium, I see three possible interpretations:
1) It does nothing, ever, because there is no way to make an Athletics Test.
2) It does nothing for Full Defense, because Defense Tests are not Skill Tests. More specifically, Full Defense Opposed Tests are not considered Athletic Group Skill Tests. This is the opinion of the second poster, as I read it.
3) It adds its bonus, because Full Defense includes Gymnastics as part of the dice pool for the Test. Since the dice added by Gymnastics are not used as a modifier (though I'm not sure it being a modifier or not makes a difference), it would be fair to say that the skill is being used. As the skill is being used as a part of the test and Gymnastics is part of the Athletics group, it would be fair to say it is an Athletics Test.
Based on the reading and the FAQ, I'd feel comfortable saying that a particular test might fall under multiple headings for modifiers affecting Skill, Skill Group, or other types of tests. For example, an astrally perceiving mage with Gymnastics who is utilizing Full Defense (Gymnastics) against an astral attack rolls: Reaction + Astral Combat + Dodge + Gymnastics according to the FAQ. This would mean that it counts as an Opposed Test, a Defense Test, a Dodge Test, an Astral Combat test, a Gymnastics test, and an Athletics test all at the same time. The mage wouldn't receive the -2 for perceiving because it is an Astral Combat test (and hence a magical test), despite using Gymnastics which is normally a physical test, but would receive the bonus from Synthacardium because Gymnastics is in the Athletics group and is being used for the test.
In any event, I plan on allowing or using the bonus from Synthacardium on Full Defense (Gymnastics) Opposed Tests in my games. I hope the Herolab community agrees and decides to add it to a patch down the line, but I understand if they decide not to due to a bit of ambiguity on the use and meaning of Skill Tests.
- Death Jester
There doesn't seem to be any clarification in the Errata or FAQ, so it comes down to what is written in the core book. I'm going to put down some things I believe to be true.
- Synthacardium adds its bonus on any Athletic Test.
- The book does not say what an Athletic Test is.
- Gymnastics is in the Athletics skill group.
- Full Defense is an Opposed Test.
- You may use Gymnastics as a part of the Full Defense Opposed Test.
Since there are only three types of tests listed in the core book, namely Success Tests, Opposed Tests, and Extended Tests, the wording of the Synthacardium can be pretty misleading. Shadowrun often uses terms interchangeably and occasionally in ways that seem to specifically direct the reader away from what is actually intended. There are no direct rules for a Skill Test mechanic specifically, yet the book talks about a need to make an Infiltration Test on pg. 118 under Skill Ratings. There are of course many other examples of this, but the book doesn't clarify that all of these are just simple forms of writing out something that will make sense with a player. The closest thing the SR4A book comes to defining a "skill test" is on pg. 68 top right paragraph under Skills. All it says there though is that the skill+linked attribute is what makes up the dice pool for skill tests. The sentence is clearly a general description, since that is not always the case. The skill section specifically states that linked attributes are 'usually' used, but aren't always.
This gets further complicated with examples of (Skill Group) Tests. Such as an Athletics or Electronics test. You can't actually test anything off of Athletics and the rules don't tell us how to use that reference. For abilities using those terms to work at all, someone reading it must extrapolate that any skill in that group being used in the test should benefit (in my opinion). Having it spelled out somewhere would be great, but the game developers aren't perfect. I've seen it said elsewhere that Tests using a skill but not the linked attribute may not be a Skill Test, but this seems untrue based on the entire Matrix system not using linked attributes for tests.
With the Synthacardium, I see three possible interpretations:
1) It does nothing, ever, because there is no way to make an Athletics Test.
2) It does nothing for Full Defense, because Defense Tests are not Skill Tests. More specifically, Full Defense Opposed Tests are not considered Athletic Group Skill Tests. This is the opinion of the second poster, as I read it.
3) It adds its bonus, because Full Defense includes Gymnastics as part of the dice pool for the Test. Since the dice added by Gymnastics are not used as a modifier (though I'm not sure it being a modifier or not makes a difference), it would be fair to say that the skill is being used. As the skill is being used as a part of the test and Gymnastics is part of the Athletics group, it would be fair to say it is an Athletics Test.
Based on the reading and the FAQ, I'd feel comfortable saying that a particular test might fall under multiple headings for modifiers affecting Skill, Skill Group, or other types of tests. For example, an astrally perceiving mage with Gymnastics who is utilizing Full Defense (Gymnastics) against an astral attack rolls: Reaction + Astral Combat + Dodge + Gymnastics according to the FAQ. This would mean that it counts as an Opposed Test, a Defense Test, a Dodge Test, an Astral Combat test, a Gymnastics test, and an Athletics test all at the same time. The mage wouldn't receive the -2 for perceiving because it is an Astral Combat test (and hence a magical test), despite using Gymnastics which is normally a physical test, but would receive the bonus from Synthacardium because Gymnastics is in the Athletics group and is being used for the test.
In any event, I plan on allowing or using the bonus from Synthacardium on Full Defense (Gymnastics) Opposed Tests in my games. I hope the Herolab community agrees and decides to add it to a patch down the line, but I understand if they decide not to due to a bit of ambiguity on the use and meaning of Skill Tests.
- Death Jester
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