M&M 3rd ed. Best way to enter this funky combo?

[charlieluce]

In my Demon Seeds campaign, one of the PCs is basically a physically enhanced ronin. One of the peculiarities of the setting means that I make almost no use of minions, so Takedown is of limited usefulness. As an alternative, the player wants to buy Multi-attack when using his Katana, Limited to attacking multiple opponents.

Now, I have no problem figuring out what to charge for this; he does +9 damage total with his Katana, so 9 points with a -1 Limitation ends up costing 5 points, easy-peasy.

What I'm not sure of is the best way to enter this into Hero Lab. The simple way would be to just enter it as a five point Feature with an explanation in the Name/Notes. On the other hand, it would be cool if there was some sort of trick (that did not involve the Editor) that would reflect his capability in the Offense section of the character sheet while charging the correct amount. Sadly, given the Strength-Based Equipment nature of the base damage, I can't figure one out.

(Then again, I'm not sure Hero Lab is charging properly for Strength-Based Damage where Extras are involved anyway, but that's another subject).

Any suggestions?

 

[Deadmannumberone]

In my Demon Seeds campaign, one of the PCs is basically a physically enhanced ronin. One of the peculiarities of the setting means that I make almost no use of minions, so Takedown is of limited usefulness. As an alternative, the player wants to buy Multi-attack when using his Katana, Limited to attacking multiple opponents.

Now, I have no problem figuring out what to charge for this; he does +9 damage total with his Katana, so 9 points with a -1 Limitation ends up costing 5 points, easy-peasy.

What I'm not sure of is the best way to enter this into Hero Lab. The simple way would be to just enter it as a five point Feature with an explanation in the Name/Notes. On the other hand, it would be cool if there was some sort of trick (that did not involve the Editor) that would reflect his capability in the Offense section of the character sheet while charging the correct amount. Sadly, given the Strength-Based Equipment nature of the base damage, I can't figure one out.

(Then again, I'm not sure Hero Lab is charging properly for Strength-Based Damage where Extras are involved anyway, but that's another subject).

Any suggestions?

That set-up changes it from equipment to a device. It would have the power of Strength-based damage equal to whatever damage bonus the katana has, with the multi-attack extra, using the easily removable setting.

 

[charlieluce]

That set-up changes it from equipment to a device.

Not as far as I'm concerned, and I'm the GM.

 

[Deadmannumberone]

Not as far as I'm concerned, and I'm the GM.

It is as far as the RAW is concerned, and HL currently only goes by the RAW. There is no other way by the RAW to give a character Multiattack when using a weapon that doesn't have the Multiattack trait. And adding the Multiattack trait to a sword would only cost 3 EP.

 

[charlieluce]

Right, 3 for the sword and 6 for the strength, 9 total.

I came up with putting it in as a Strength Effect with Multi-attack 9 and Stacks With the katana, but I couldn't add a Limited Flaw, and it turned out that it didn't add anything to the Offense section anyway, so I stuck with the Feature version.

(Oh, and my copy of the RAW says nothing about not being able to Multi-attack with Equipment. )

 

[Shadowchaser]

Try buying it as a Feature for the character?

Simply buy enough ranks to cover Multi-attack with all the damage he can do with the sword, and then put the remark 'Multi-Attack with swords.' in the notes for the sword.

This is very similar to how Killshot and The Crimson Avenger are built by official Green Ronin sources, adding Split Attack to normal equipment.

I wouldn't cost it at 5 pp, though, I don't see a flaw inherent in 'only' using it with one power, the extra is designed only for use with one power at a time.

Just 9pp worth of Feature (Can perform Multi-Attack with Swords) and allow them to use it with any sword they pick up, and I'd say that's balanced.

 

[charlieluce]

Try buying it as a Feature for the character?

Mentioned in both the OP and my previous reply.

I wouldn't cost it at 5 pp, though, I don't see a flaw inherent in 'only' using it with one power, the extra is designed only for use with one power at a time.

The Limit is "Only Multiple targets"; he can't Multi-attack a single opponent.

 

[Shadowchaser]

Mentioned in both the OP and my previous reply.
The Limit is "Only Multiple targets"; he can't Multi-attack a single opponent.

Ahhh.

I can kinda see that. Not sure it's worth a full -1 per rank, I'd probably have made it a -2 quirk or something, but it seems to work out to a decent total.

And yeah, I see you had mentioned the Feature thing. I wanted to mention it again because it was being used for similar things in official write-ups, so you might as well imitate the guys at Green Ronin.

 

[charlieluce]

I can kinda see that. Not sure it's worth a full -1 per rank, I'd probably have made it a -2 quirk or something, but it seems to work out to a decent total.

Admittedly it was Second Edition instead of Third, but in five years of running and playing M&M I saw Auto-fire used against a single target a good four-fifths or so of the time, so I figured not having the option met the "around half the utility" standard for a Flaw.

Not that the player isn't saving up to buy it up to full usage, mind you.

 

[Deadmannumberone]

I have a character with a swarm missile attack that I'd say the "only multiple targets" restriction is only a quirk (striking multiple areas is far more beneficial than striking one area with more damage), but adding it to his micro dart launcher would certainly be a Limited flaw, as a single target multi-attack can double the power of the attack with a good roll.

Thinking about this situation, however, I believe we are all looking at this incorrectly. You're looking for a way for this character to essentially take the Takedown advantage that targets non-minions (as minions are rare in your campaign). Perhaps modifying the Takedown advantage (description and cost) for your current campaign will suit you better, and later he can take the Power Attack advantage to get the full effect of Multi-attack.

 

[Shadowchaser]

I have a character with a swarm missile attack that I'd say the "only multiple targets" restriction is only a quirk (striking multiple areas is far more beneficial than striking one area with more damage), but adding it to his micro dart launcher would certainly be a Limited flaw, as a single target multi-attack can double the power of the attack with a good roll.

Thinking about this situation, however, I believe we are all looking at this incorrectly. You're looking for a way for this character to essentially take the Takedown advantage that targets non-minions (as minions are rare in your campaign). Perhaps modifying the Takedown advantage (description and cost) for your current campaign will suit you better, and later he can take the Power Attack advantage to get the full effect of Multi-attack.

Honestly, I can see either Takedown 2 or multi-attack working in this instance. Takedown would be cheaper but a little less effective, but not crippled in comparison to the single-use version of Multi-attack.