Gestalts via Archetypes

[Maidhc O Casain]

Gestalt Characters via Archetypes

I'm working on making some Gestalt classes for my upcoming PF campaign, and have run into some problems. Thought I'd start a thread for ongoing discussion of these (I'm making four new Gestalts, so there are likely to be lots of issues arising).

First issue:

Making a Barbarian/Summoner Gestalt. I started with the Summoner and made a new Archetype (Spirit Warrior, Unique ID: arMCPSpWr). Set the HP, BAB and Save Progression with no problem. Added the Special Abilities (other than Rage Power) again with no problem.

For the Rage Powers, the existing ones are set as Primary, so I'm making copies and setting them to Secondary. Also making them available to Spirit Warrior rather than Barbarian class.

Now the problem. I edit the 'Allow Secondary Abilities' and set the allowed class to 'Spirit Warrior.' I also name the secondary ability 'Rage Power.' When I test I get the following error:

Hero Lab was forced to stop compilation after the following errors were detected:

Thing 'arMCPSpWr' - Contains duplicates of tag 'arMCPSpWr' in group 'AllowC2nd'

What am I missing?

 

[Mathias]

When you create the archetype, AllowC2nd.arMCPSpWr is created for you - did you create it yourself as a new tag?

 

[Mathias]

Also, check out the Rage Domain - it has a script that provides an example of how to modify the list of custom abilities a class chooses from so that the Barbarian's primary abilities are available for selection in the Cleric's Tertiary abilities, without having to make copies of every Rage Power.

An archetype will use "linkage[varies]" instead of the "linkage

" that a cleric domain uses to get to the class it's associated with.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

When you create the archetype, AllowC2nd.arMCPSpWr is created for you - did you create it yourself as a new tag?

I didn't manually create any tags. And I don't get the error as long as I leave the Allow Secondary Abilities blank rather than editing it to allow my new class.

When I level my character up to 20 (without the Secondary Abilities allowed) one of my new Rage Powers shows up as available. It shows under the 'Add More Aspects' section of the Summoner tab, and is grayed out because 'Barbarian Level 8 Required.'

Not sure what I did to make that one available, and ideally it would be available as an 'Add More Rage Powers' rather than an Aspect. I figure there's something I need to change to make it read 'Spirit Warrior Level 8 Required.'

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

Also, check out the Rage Domain - it has a script that provides an example of how to modify the list of custom abilities a class chooses from so that the Barbarian's primary abilities are available for selection in the Cleric's Tertiary abilities, without having to make copies of every Rage Power.

An archetype will use "linkage[varies]" instead of the "linkage

" that a cleric domain uses to get to the class it's associated with.

Nice! That was a step in the right direction . . . I now get separate options for the Aspects and the Rage Powers so we're making progress!

However, though my sample character is level 20 it shows that only 2 Rage Powers are left to choose (should be 10), and I get a 'Nothing to choose from' message when I click it. Also, for some reason my modified Increased Damage Reduction is still showing up as an Aspect and with the 'Barbarian Level 8 Required' validation error.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

OK, tracked down one of the problems. The domain script makes the powers tertiary abilities, and I need them to be secondary. So I made the following changes:

~modify our linked class to add barbarian rage powers

~we'll use the secondary abilities slot for these

linkage[varies].field[cCustTeTot].arrayvalue[11] += 1
linkage[varies].field[cCustTeTot].arrayvalue[15] += 2
linkage[varies].field[cSpec2ndSi].text = "Rage Power"

But I can't track down the 'cCustTeTot' equivalent for Secondary powers. Also, it seems like I need to add 'arrayvalue' lines for each level at which my class will get new powers. Is this correct? Will the array value be [1] or [2] for level 2? I'll go try some of this myself and maybe figure it out before you reply . . .

EDIT: Figured out my questions about adding the lines and the array values. Now just need:

1. The secondary equivalent of 'field.[cCustTeTot]'
2. The fix for the 'Barbarian Level 8' requirement (Should read 'Spirit Warrior Level 8 Required')
3. The reason '(SW) Increased Damage Reduction' (my modified Increased Damage Reduction) is still showing up as an Aspect.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

OK, figured out the bit about the validation error (Barbarian Level 8 Required). I've got it to the point that only the Spirit Warrior archetype accesses the (SW) Rage Powers, and the error messages show appropriately for Barbarian Rage Powers and for Spirit Warrior Rage Powers. So Number 2 (above) is taken care of.

First priority for help now would be the secondary equivalent of 'field[cCustTeTot]' (I think). If I understand the script correctly, changing this will allow me to assign the Rage Powers as secondary for my Gestalt class. I've looked around and haven't managed to find a reference to this yet.

Still working on getting all of my (SW) Rage Powers made and set as secondaries, as well as assigning them to the Spirit Warrior archetype. After that I'll try to find out why (SW) Increased Damage Reduction is showing as an Aspect.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

For some reason the 'Increased Damage' problem resolved itself - it no longer shows as a summoner aspect.

This just leaves the problem of scripting them as Secondaries rather than Tertiaries.

I've gotten all of the Core Rage Powers entered now.

 

[Mathias]

1. The secondary equivalent of 'field.[cCustTeTot]'

cCustScTot

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

And now the world of my Summoner/Barbarian gestalt class is one step closer to right! Thanks, Matthias.

One more question:

In the Expr-reqs for the Beast/Chaos/etc. totems there's a req reading

'hero.tagunique[abCategory.BbnTot?] <=" and either "@ispick" (for Lesser) or "1" (for regular or greater). Will there be an equivalent for my new class, or will the current req work?

 

[Nikmal]

Hey Mowgli,
Have you been able to overcome the single caster limit? For instance have a wizard sorcerer gestalt class... or Cleric/Alchemist. There has been a limit on this type before that was not able to over come yet? but by setting them up as an Archtype this might work

 

[Mathias]

There's still only one set of spellcasting fields in each class. Altering those with an archetype won't add a new set of fields.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

That leads me to another question as well - two of my players are using spell-less archetypes (Skirmisher Ranger and Holy Light Paladin) combined in a Gestalt with casting classes (Cleric and Sorcerer respectively).

Will I be able to work these as archetypes? Possibly by adding the abilities of the Ranger/Paladin archetypes to an archetype for the casting classes?

 

[Mathias]

You'd have to add the class that doesn't have spellcasting as the archetype to the class that does have spellcasting. Disabling spellcasting with an archetype only turns off a single on/off switch in spellcasting - it doesn't remove any information about what spells that class can cast, or how many they cast per day.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

So make my Sorcerer/Holy Light Paladin a Sorcerer archetype? Cool - I think that will make it a little easier anyway.

Also, not sure if you missed my previous question regarding 'hero.tagunique[abCategory.BbnTot?]' (just a couple of posts back).

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

After a brief hiatus to work on other projects, I'm back to work on my Barbarian/Summoner gestalt class, and have a question and a snag.

Question:

In the Expr-reqs for the Beast/Chaos/etc. totems there's a req reading

'hero.tagunique[abCategory.BbnTot?] <=" and either "@ispick" (for Lesser) or "1" (for regular or greater). It's the validation check to make sure you're not choosing more than one Rage Totem; my class is not a Barbarian class, though, it's a Summoner archetype. Will there be an equivalent for my new class, or will the current req work?

Snag:

Working on the Liquid Courage rage power. I've got everything copied over and the ability is selectable for my new class. It puts the counter for the number of drinks on the in-play tab, but it won't let me add drinks - clicking on it does nothing.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

Snag:

Working on the Liquid Courage rage power. I've got everything copied over and the ability is selectable for my new class. It puts the counter for the number of drinks on the in-play tab, but it won't let me add drinks - clicking on it does nothing.

Figured this one out. Had to add a version of abBbnDrink for my new class.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

OK, almost finished with my second Gestalt archetype. This one's an Inquisitor/Fighter gestalt, and has overall been much easier than the Summoner/Barbarian.

However, there's one hiccup (that I've found so far). I managed to make the Weapon Trainings selectable, and at the correct levels, by making new (secondary) abilities usable by my new class. But the bonuses don't increase as levels are added. The first one becomes available at 5th level, the second at 9th, but at ninth level the first one chosen is still listed at +1, and the second at +0.

Any suggestions as to what I'm missing here? It's probably something very simple . . .

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

It looks like it has something to do with 'cFtrWepSum' but I can't find that in the editor. Can anybody tell me what tab it'll be under? And what I might need to do with it? Or if I'm even on the right track?

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

Inquisitor/Rogue Gestalt (Inquisitor Archetype)

Got everything for my Inquisitor/Rogue Gestalt class except for the Advanced Rogue Tricks. I can get them to show up, but even after my character has gotten to the appropriate level they remain grayed out.

I'm building the class as an archetype of the Inquisitor class. For my Barbarian/Summoner Gestalt (Summoner Archetype) getting the higher level Rage Powers to be 'selectable' was a matter of changing 'Barbarian' in the Expr-reqs (#levelcount[Barbarian] >= 10) to 'Summoner', since that is the base class for this.

But doing the same - changing 'Rogue' to 'Inquisitor' in the Expr-reqs for the Advanced Tricks - doesn't fix the problem for this class.

Help?!