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Cutting feat taxes

I'm pretty sure that the idea is to let NPCs use the normal rules, so that existing ones can be used as-is without having to rejigger them for the No Feat Tax stuff.

On the other hand, if the NFT uses a World Is Square Source and it's not checked for the NPCs, wouldn't that serve the purpose?
 
Yes, that's why I'm confused. If the idea is just that NPCs use the normal rules, no modification, why not just turn the package off?

So I'm wondering if there was something more/different that Toby was after.
 
charlieluce said:
I'm pretty sure that the idea is to let NPCs use the normal rules, so that existing ones can be used as-is without having to rejigger them for the No Feat Tax stuff.

On the other hand, if the NFT uses a World Is Square Source and it's not checked for the NPCs, wouldn't that serve the purpose?
Click to expand...

It would, it however, would save a good amount of time so I didnt have to go back and forth between adding npcs and players. There are a great deal of sources to choose from now in the Hero Config.
 
This is true. I was thinking of things like Encounter Libraries where the NPC already has their configuration options set.
 
*sigh*

I have clearly not understood how the *Preclude tab works. Its label says "Preclude: Allows you to cause a thing to become invalid when a source is selected."

Therefore I thought that if I did this:

attachment.php


... then the feats I stuck in there would become invalid only when the WiSRules source is "selected", which I took to mean that somebody checked the box in the hero configuration dialog.

Instead, I now find that Dodge and all the other feats are precluded at all times, regardless of whether the source has been selected in the hero configurator. As a result, my code is causing errors to appear any time somebody opens up a PC that isn't using these house rules and happens to have one of the precluded feats.

So I guess I have two questions:

1) How does the *Preclude tab actually work? When does a source count as "selected" or "not selected"?

2) Is there any way to make it behave the way it says it does? I want these preclusions to take effect only when someone checks the "Eliminate feat taxes" option, which turns on the WiSRules source?
 

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wdmartin said:
1) How does the *Preclude tab actually work? When does a source count as "selected" or "not selected"?
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Um it works exactly like you said above. Only if WiSRules source is turned on will it preclude/hide those feats. I just tested the precludes I have setup for my houserule and it works fine. Only when I turn on my houserules are somethings removed.

wdmartin said:
2) Is there any way to make it behave the way it says it does? I want these preclusions to take effect only when someone checks the "Eliminate feat taxes" option, which turns on the WiSRules source?
Click to expand...
I would advise posting your files and I can take a look at them. Please include one of the example .por file that is tossing errors.
 
If your only objective is to prevent a feat from being selectable, then you could set up something in your WiS mechanics to assign the Helper.Helper tag or the Helper.Obsolete tag to feats, abilities, weapons etc.

The first, Helper.Helper marks the thing as a "Helper" item so it is only added to the hero if it is bootstrapped as part of something else. The second has the same effect except it throws fewer errors as the Obsolete tag is designed for backwards compatibility.

The benefit to using these assign tags to existing feats is that if the hero already possesses the feats on characters it will not throw compiler errors if the desired source is one they do not have access to because you can use "hero.childfound[fXXXXX].assign" instead of a preclude which if you try and preclude a non-paizo item it will often throw errors at the user does not have that Thing in any of their files.

I hope that helps.
 
TobyFox2002 - how could you assign tags to the feats in order to prevent them from being selected before they've been selected?
 
Mathias said:
TobyFox2002 - how could you assign tags to the feats in order to prevent them from being selected before they've been selected?
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The new Extend Tab in the editor can do this actually. ;)

That will let you assign tags to a Thing and not a Pick. Its most useful ability is to setup sClass.? tag onto spells.

P.S - Reading more. I see TobyFox was talking about a Mechanic. That could NOT be used to assign those tags. In addition using the Extend editor tab would be a "all the time" feature. It can't make any choices it simply always applies those tags to the Thing.

P.S.S - The difference between a Thing and Pick is VERY important to what is being asked here...
 
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Mathias said:
TobyFox2002 - how could you assign tags to the feats in order to prevent them from being selected before they've been selected?
Click to expand...

If you take the dodge feat for example, you would add this:

hero.childfound[fDodge].assign[Helper.Helper]

That will mark the Dodge feat as being a "helper" feat and prevent it from showing up in the feat selection dialog box and in most class, race and configurable bonus feat custom ability. You do not need to have a Thing on the hero to assign tags to it. Just make sure you use childfound and not just child.

At least, that's how I would try and work it. Are you saying that wouldn't work?
 
TobyFox2002 said:
If you take the dodge feat for example, you would add this:

hero.childfound[fDodge].assign[Helper.Helper]

That will mark the Dodge feat as being a "helper" feat and prevent it from showing up in the feat selection dialog box and in most class, race and configurable bonus feat custom ability. You do not need to have a Thing on the hero to assign tags to it. Just make sure you use childfound and not just child.

At least, that's how I would try and work it. Are you saying that wouldn't work?
Click to expand...

Have you tested this and actually gotten it to work?

As ShadowChemosh said, it's very important to remember the difference between things and picks, and consider what changes are allowed while something's still a thing.
 
Well, I finally got a chance to sit down and really study this.

The problem portfolios in question had somehow gotten their polarities reversed, so to speak. That is, "Eliminate Feat Taxes" was disabled, but the character had the version of the feat from my code selected instead of the default version, and so it quite correctly threw an error.

I really have no idea how that happened. Both the portfolios in question predate the World is Square project by several years, and so far as I know neither one has ever actually had the "Eliminate Feat Taxes" option enabled. It's really weird.

Deleting the feats in question, making sure that the module was disabled, and then adding them again corrected the problem.

Thanks for the suggestions, and sorry for firing off requests for help before I'd taken the time to investigate thoroughly.
 
Angela2013 said:
This is probably a stupid question but what are feat taxes? Do you mean the perquisites for a feat.
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Yes. Some people think having to meet a requirement is a "tax" or a really bad thing. To take Cleave you need Power Attack and many people don't like that idea as Power Attack in example should just be a normal combat option not a feat.

Sense you get so FEW feats a person should only ever take feats that give a BIG bang for the buck. :)
 
My pet peeve in feat taxes is Mobility, which as far as I can tell pretty much exists only to make everything that it's a prerequisite for cost an extra Feat.
 
Mathias said:
Have you tested this and actually gotten it to work?

As ShadowChemosh said, it's very important to remember the difference between things and picks, and consider what changes are allowed while something's still a thing.
Click to expand...

I am so sorry, I didn't even see this question Mathais. Following so many threads it must have gotten buried in my emails.

To answer you, no I haven't I am just working on instinct and what feels intuitive. As for what actually works, I am not sure. I realize that what feels right and what would actually work can be very different, and my knowledge of the difference between a Pick and a Thing is shaky at best. I'm not a technical programmer, and the vocabulary makes my head spin, even and is made even worse when I try read up on it. LOL :p

If you say it wont work, then it wont. I was just throwing out my ideas to brainstorm possible solutions. If it seemed otherwise, I did not intend so.
 
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