Is there any chance you at Realm Works could implement a beta testing build for Realm Works. With this you could provide features that are mostly finished but still need polishing and corrections and get some great feedback from the community. The feedback on the beta releases could help you develop a better product before public release.
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What about Beta Builds?
- Thread starter Madmaxneo
- Start date
Really? As a comparison there are a lot of beta testing for games on Steam and it apparently helps the developers find and eradicate bugs and add extra features much more quickly. Another example is Windows 10 with the preview builds. Without that I doubt very much Windows 10 would be as far along as it is.
The beta team does give feedback, does find bugs and does test new features. It is a closed team that doesn't post much in the forums whether due to NDA or because they are a mature group that doesn't create drama which would undoubtedly arise from our armchair judgments and misinterpretations based on what they say. I've picked a few people out that are probably/definitely on the beta team and they are all good choices for the dubious role. IMNSHO, LWD made the right choice in their selection and use of that group.
To date I have not had any stability issues that I can remember. I have used my Realm Works via remote desktop connection when running my session at a local game store and I have never had any problems. Well, besides remote desktop not working like it should sometimes.
We are indeed very wise, patient, and mature (or at least tend to be older and too busy for much drama). I don't think it was every meant to be secret who was on the team but we are all under NDA. Beta was much busier in the early days when many of the current layout changes were made as we discovered through trial and error, what was needed and might be wanted by different kinds of DMs. The reality is that we have been needed less in the last year or so as there are so many literate users in the forums that also give lots of great ideas and feedback to LWD. I know I certainly learn lots here. When changes are made that can really screw things up, we will be called on to serve again and sacrifice our realms for the cause of liberty, justice, and the greater good of DMs everywhere. (loud musical crescendo)
MNBlockHead
Well-known member
The the major update that converted everything to HTML, many people, myself include, ran into a number of nasty bugs that prevented use of the software for a few days to in a few rare cases, a few weeks. Before that, and since the subsequent updates in the weeks after the major update, it has been stable.
Many people were rightfully upset with this. To LWD's credit, nobody lost their data AFAIK and the bug fixes came quickly. But it created quite the scare and caused some missed games. It certainly made me more appreciative of those clamoring for export and print.
The problem with BETA software is that many people who decide to try a beta version will react the same way when they run into bugs in the beta versions. Too many people sign up for beta services and software for early access the latest and greatest features and use it with important data. It is easy to say that they should have known better, but for a company that needs to protect its image, it doesn't need to devote even more developer time trying to help beta users recover lost data. It doesn't need to spend time defending itself against upset beta testers.
I don't think it appropriate to compare a Microsoft or Google to a small developer like LWD. It doesn't have time resources to hand-hold needy and incautious beta testers. Steam games are also different, I think, because when your game crashes, it is annoying but you are no losing hundreds of hours of creative work or needing to reschedule social events.
I think LWD is taking the right approach.
Many people were rightfully upset with this. To LWD's credit, nobody lost their data AFAIK and the bug fixes came quickly. But it created quite the scare and caused some missed games. It certainly made me more appreciative of those clamoring for export and print.
The problem with BETA software is that many people who decide to try a beta version will react the same way when they run into bugs in the beta versions. Too many people sign up for beta services and software for early access the latest and greatest features and use it with important data. It is easy to say that they should have known better, but for a company that needs to protect its image, it doesn't need to devote even more developer time trying to help beta users recover lost data. It doesn't need to spend time defending itself against upset beta testers.
I don't think it appropriate to compare a Microsoft or Google to a small developer like LWD. It doesn't have time resources to hand-hold needy and incautious beta testers. Steam games are also different, I think, because when your game crashes, it is annoying but you are no losing hundreds of hours of creative work or needing to reschedule social events.
I think LWD is taking the right approach.
That might have been one of my down times with the software. But I was using it once a week every Friday evening/ The only thing I really use it for in game is the session summary. It wasn't until the last few days that I started adding more information to RW. I am also not using it right now because I am running a short Firefly game with the ships crew. I am only trying out the system to see how well it might work for the superhero game I am setting up.
I understand there are plenty of people that take the beta build and make it something it isn't by complaining every time something goes wrong. I knew one on the MS forums that was going bat crazy because one of the preview builds made his system crash and loose a bunch of data. I even copy and pasted the part of the preview agreement that indicates that might happen. He would not listen for anything. Regardless I got tired of hearing him whine and cancelled my subscription to that post (which was my post to begin with...lol).
I understand there are plenty of people that take the beta build and make it something it isn't by complaining every time something goes wrong. I knew one on the MS forums that was going bat crazy because one of the preview builds made his system crash and loose a bunch of data. I even copy and pasted the part of the preview agreement that indicates that might happen. He would not listen for anything. Regardless I got tired of hearing him whine and cancelled my subscription to that post (which was my post to begin with...lol).
Another example is Windows 10 with the preview builds. Without that I doubt very much Windows 10 would be as far along as it is.
Really? My sincere impression is that they took that one and ran off with half-baked ideas and no testing among users.
I'll chime in so there's an "official" answer from Lone Wolf. We have a closed beta team that does testing for us. Some of the members joined early on in Realm Works development, others joined as a part of the Kickstarter. They're going to be testing builds for the Content Market and web-access.
Unfortunately, they weren't able to test the HTML conversion. Why? The release required some massive orchestration between changes on the desktop AND the server. Those types of changes impact everyone, so we were unable to roll it out first the Beta team.
We even looked into setting up separate server just for the Beta team, but that doesn't work when players (with Player Edition) are in a mix of games between Beta and non-Beta GMs, nor does it work when players are using the non-Beta GM Edition for their own games.
So while we were unable to use the Beta team for that particular update, we have used them in the past and are continuing to use them in the future.
Unfortunately, they weren't able to test the HTML conversion. Why? The release required some massive orchestration between changes on the desktop AND the server. Those types of changes impact everyone, so we were unable to roll it out first the Beta team.
We even looked into setting up separate server just for the Beta team, but that doesn't work when players (with Player Edition) are in a mix of games between Beta and non-Beta GMs, nor does it work when players are using the non-Beta GM Edition for their own games.
So while we were unable to use the Beta team for that particular update, we have used them in the past and are continuing to use them in the future.