Vertical/Horizontal Numbering in Tables

[Gallinaar]

Currently when numbering rows/columns in a 'whole' table - the sequence is horizontal. That is, numbers flow along the rows, incrementing as they go.

It does not appear to be possible to have numbering increment in 'columnar/vertical' format. Except in a single column.

Numbering in order downwards seems more common/natural to me, though others may prefer different. I would suggest it be setup as an option when using numbering. Or as a preference setting.

 

[Parody]

I'm confused. Tables are a layout feature that look like a spreadsheet. In Realm Works they don't have any built-in numbering support of any kind; I had to type all of the text you see in this sample:




Did you mean something with numbered lists?




A mocked-up example would be helpful!

 

[Gallinaar]

Sorry Parody, there's me thinking I was giving a clear explanation. As they say, a picture speaks a thousand words.



I am using the Tables from the 'Format' Menu/Ribbon, and the 'Numbered List' button from same ribbon. By highlighting the column or row, or whole table, they can be numbered. Usually the cells must be adjusted to show the numbering. And 'Decrease Indent' used to get the content to align appropriately (fully left-aligned) in the cells.

TABLE A is typically how I would list/sort my data, columnar ordering. Eg: The businesses within a city district.

TABLE B is what happens when I apply Numbered Lists to the whole table. I cannot get it to list in a columnar format. To me, it is unnatural.

TABLE C is my current workaround by only numbering the first column and guessing the others.

I notice in your image you have a 'spreadsheet format' with numbered/shaded outer columns/rows. My image shows numbering within each cell and prior to each item of data.

My feature request is to be able to number (increment) the second and third columns like the first in Table C.

 

[Parody]

Thanks for the explanation.

I'm surprised it works at all; HTML ordered lists must be contained within a table cell, so I would have expected numbering to be forcibly ended at the end of each cell. RW could help you out by marking each cell as the start of a new numbering sequence starting with the next number, I suppose. It wouldn't stay updated but it'd be something.

Neither of these happens when playing with it in Realm Works. If you start a new paragraph in a cell it gets the next number (which makes sense); if you mark separated text for ordered lists they default to "continue previous list" and it continues left-to-right, top-to-bottom. That's the order I'd expect (it's both our reading order and the order it'd be written in HTML) but it's still weird.



On the plus side, manually adding the headers will always work. :)

Good luck with your request!

 

[Parody]

One last thing: this is probably how I'd do what you're talking about. (Maybe not, as it would depend on the data involved, but going purely from the sample....)



I might have messed around with the cell borders, but you get the idea. Everything's manually entered, which gives you good control over it.

 

[Gallinaar]

Given that using a numbered list merged across HTML cells is apparently somewhat non-standard and open to instability, I think your suggestion to go for manual numbering is likely the more reliable way to go. It seems far more stable and table friendly, though incurs slightly more time to create for the GM.

I started using tables this way to fill up the 'left to right' screen real-estate as long numbered lists (say 20-30 items) with a large and unused 'white space' to the right looked odd and visually imbalanced. Purely aesthetic reasoning I think, rather than any required necessity.

Your last example is nicely set out and would meet my current needs. However, there's still that desire for a 'quick-click table' that automatically enters numbered cells.

 

[Vargr]

All this makes me wonder, if there is a way to make some standard text/table/etc. setup, store it somewhere in RW and insert it with a few simple clicks.

Say, if Gallinaar (or me, for that matter) would like a specific empty table in a specific snippet for each individual, could this be done easily within RW, without having to locate such a table (or whatever) in an outside program (or a totally unrelated topic), copy'n'paste it?

 

[Dr_Automaton]

Vargr, tables can be copy-pasted from one topic to another. If you have your template open in one tab, it's pretty straightforward to copy it over to your current topic in another.

 

[Vargr]

I know - I want to insert them in the snippet when I make a new category, so that they are always present when I start a new topic.

That gives me a way more fluent work process

 

[Cornelius]

I see a lot of questions from people working with tables and looking at this request maybe a special table type snippet is a solution. Such a snippet type should be able to do the following things (at least what I can think of now):
- The usual things you wish to do with a table (like higlighting rows or columns).
- Create a template through the topic category.
- Reveal on a cell level. Example when I use a table like in the example of Parody above. Like the results from a die roll. I can imagine that I only want to reveal the result that has been rolled by the players.

 

[AEIOU]

I'd normally use a table for multiple events on the GM side and it would probably never be seen by players. It's a reference for me. If it's an encounter, it's set and will have a real category and it doesn't need a random table. If it's a random encounter, it's going to happen repeatedly ad hoc and I'll refer to the random encounter category whenever players are in an area where it is applicable and nothing will ever get revealed on it.

There seem to be a number of things that we would like to use repeatedly. And we've found ways to make them happen but it involves copy/paste. Perhaps rather than create every bell and whistle for every subsystem, LWD should instead add a clipboard where we can park commonly used snippets, tables, verbiage, templates, etc. I don't know what it would look like, but a single location that we can park things in.

 

[Farling]

- Reveal on a cell level. Example when I use a table like in the example of Parody above. Like the results from a die roll. I can imagine that I only want to reveal the result that has been rolled by the players.

In this situation, where is a d% or similar table, I use separate snippets where the GM annotation is the dice range for which the text is applicable. This then gives me the existing reveal button on the snippet if the party need to know that additional information (e.g. a table of rumours).

Part of the job of translating a traditional written adventure into RW is changing the format of information to one which is better suited to the way that RW makes that information available (or indeed the way that any computer could make that information available).

 

[Cornelius]

There seem to be a number of things that we would like to use repeatedly. And we've found ways to make them happen but it involves copy/paste. Perhaps rather than create every bell and whistle for every subsystem, LWD should instead add a clipboard where we can park commonly used snippets, tables, verbiage, templates, etc. I don't know what it would look like, but a single location that we can park things in.

A +1 for that idea. Some of it can be arranged by adding standard snippets to the category, but I can see application for this.

 

[Vargr]

There seem to be a number of things that we would like to use repeatedly. And we've found ways to make them happen but it involves copy/paste. Perhaps rather than create every bell and whistle for every subsystem, LWD should instead add a clipboard where we can park commonly used snippets, tables, verbiage, templates, etc. I don't know what it would look like, but a single location that we can park things in.

This idea is beautiful in all its simplicity (hopefully also programwise).

+1 for the record.

An icon in the ribbon that opens an (independent) window with some groups in a left pane and a graphical representation of the various clips stored?

One group should be for non-stored clips (erased when RW closes down), the rest should be for stored clips, that you intend to use over and over.

And - this clipboard thingy should allow copying across topics and across realms.

 

[Zaphod Beebledoc]

This idea is beautiful in all its simplicity (hopefully also programwise).

+1 for the record.

An icon in the ribbon that opens an (independent) window with some groups in a left pane and a graphical representation of the various clips stored?

One group should be for non-stored clips (erased when RW closes down), the rest should be for stored clips, that you intend to use over and over.

And - this clipboard thingy should allow copying across topics and across realms.

+1 for this.

 

[Gord]

This idea is beautiful in all its simplicity (hopefully also programwise).

An icon in the ribbon that opens an (independent) window with some groups in a left pane and a graphical representation of the various clips stored?

One group should be for non-stored clips (erased when RW closes down), the rest should be for stored clips, that you intend to use over and over.

And - this clipboard thingy should allow copying across topics and across realms.

I love this idea. Definitely +1 from another table guy.

 

[Parody]

One alternative (internal to a single realm) is to make a collection of User Notes to store your clippings.

An external alternative is to get a clipbook application ("clipboard manager", "clipping application", or similar). These programs let you save data from the clipboard and paste it again later. Windows used to come with one but it was deprecated in XP and discontinued thereafter. I don't use one of these so I don't know how well it would work with what Realm Works puts on the clipboard for various objects, but it'd be something to try.

 

[MNBlockHead]

I use PhraseExpress for this. Works great.