Is there any chance of a trial version? I've been pretty pleased with HeroLab for years now, and so I'm generally inclined to purchase things Lone Wolf does, but at a cost of $80 plus $40/year, I'm afraid of getting myself into another FantasyGrounds situation (which turned out to be a complete waste of $300.)
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- The Lone Wolf Development Team
Trial Version
- Thread starter tml
- Start date
JustinThomason
Well-known member
I think a trial version of Realm Works would be tough - it takes quite a while just to get your head wrapped around it.
However, I believe Lone Wolf has a 60-day money back return policy, and historically they've been very good about making the return with as little as "this tool won't work for me." You do have to put the money down up front, but over all, the product is great and fills a niche no other program I've ever used has. Also, the cloud access isn't, strictly speaking, necessary (although I don't think I'd give it up).
I'd also suggest checking out the tutorial videos and such as those give a very good indication of the capabilities of the program - I know I had a pretty good idea of how I would be able to use it after viewing those...
However, I believe Lone Wolf has a 60-day money back return policy, and historically they've been very good about making the return with as little as "this tool won't work for me." You do have to put the money down up front, but over all, the product is great and fills a niche no other program I've ever used has. Also, the cloud access isn't, strictly speaking, necessary (although I don't think I'd give it up).
I'd also suggest checking out the tutorial videos and such as those give a very good indication of the capabilities of the program - I know I had a pretty good idea of how I would be able to use it after viewing those...
ShadowChemosh
Well-known member
Is that 80 bucks converted to another currency? Because the RW site says "Get started for only $49.99! GM Edition also includes 6 months of free standard tier cloud service". So its only $50 for RW and it includes 6 months free and currently this 6 months I am pretty sure does not start until the Content Market is out. See the official announcement HERE.
In the end LW gives a 60 day money back guarantee of all there products. So if at the end of 50 days you don't like it you can get your $50 bucks back. So that pretty much works out like a trial...
No, that $80 is what it would cost me to purchase the GM version and a 5-pack of Player Edition (and that would only cover ONE of the groups I GM.) Ffrom the little I've seen on the site, it seems like a lot of the value of the tool is focused around having the players using the software as well. Perhaps I mis-understood the pricing model - is it more like Fantasy Grounds, where if I buy the GM version, any player can join my sessions without purchasing?
I hadn't seen that there were tutorial videos, so I'll check those out. Even after reading the suggestion here, I clicked back through every page under the "Features" menu at http://www.wolflair.com/realmworks/features/realm-works-overview/ and I don't see any links to videos - maybe something LW could do a better job on. I did manage to find them on YouTube, though, so thanks for pointing them out.
I still would love to see a trial version happen, but thanks for the pointers to the videos and the comments about the money back guarantee.
I hadn't seen that there were tutorial videos, so I'll check those out. Even after reading the suggestion here, I clicked back through every page under the "Features" menu at http://www.wolflair.com/realmworks/features/realm-works-overview/ and I don't see any links to videos - maybe something LW could do a better job on. I did manage to find them on YouTube, though, so thanks for pointing them out.
I still would love to see a trial version happen, but thanks for the pointers to the videos and the comments about the money back guarantee.
At the table, the intent is for the GM to have a second monitor dedicated to the players on which the GM can show various pieces of data. This is the Player View feature.
Player accounts/licenses allow the players to sync to and view revealed content offline. They aren't intended to be used real-time at the table for instant viewing of revealed content, though some have been successful using them in this way despite the need for the GM to sync and then the player(s) to sync.
The last announced intent is for some or all of the Player account/license features to be available for free via the web client, which may also work better for people wanting to update revealed information in real time.
I use Realm Works purely as a writing/world creation aid, without using any of the player features. I don't know if you would be interested in using it in that way, but there are some of us out there. :)
ShadowChemosh
Well-known member
On top of what Parody said please realize that each Player Edition has its own user-id and password. YOU as the DM have NO CONTROL over those accounts. So you are buying stuff for you players that you can not guarantee you will get back. The idea is each player buys his/hers own player edition and they use it to connect to "one" or many different GM realms.
So LW idea of pricing is that the GM buys his own copy of RW and each player buys there own copy of RW.
And I want to highlight Parody's statement regarding web client: "The last announced intent is for some or all of the Player account/license features to be available for free via the web client, which may also work better for people wanting to update revealed information in real time."
This is important. While LWD would gladly take your money, they seem to recognize that the full features of the player client and the eventual journaling and player editing aren't necessary for everyone. The web client may be all (some of) your players want/need.
This is important. While LWD would gladly take your money, they seem to recognize that the full features of the player client and the eventual journaling and player editing aren't necessary for everyone. The web client may be all (some of) your players want/need.
As indicated above, trying to orchestrate a trial version for Realm Works is quite complicated. We offer a 60-day money-back guarantee on all our products, so this provides users who are unsure an opportunity to really exercise Realm Works and see if it's a fit for them. If you do choose to return the product, we'd like to know why so we can factor that into our improvement plans for the future, but you don't even have to give us a reason. 
The free web-based player access that is actively being developed should suffice for a large number of players. It's a limited subset of the full Player Edition, but it will provide a level of access that many players will consider to be plenty. We'll be officially detailing the specifics as we get closer to release in the upcoming months.
You can preview what the players will see with Player Edition from within the GM Edition. So your best bet is to purchase only the GM Edition and spend some time getting familiar with it. Put some test material in to see how it works for you, and preview what the players would see via Player Edition. You might find that, like a lot of GMs, the in-play support is all you really need for your players, in which case you don't even need to bother with Player Edition. It really depends on your group's play style.
The most important thing I can say is that Realm Works is often overwhelming at first. It does so many different things that users often aren't sure where to start. The tutorial videos are a great help with this, as is the documentation (ew, yuck!). There are also videos of past seminars we've done at shows, and new videos will be coming out shortly from the seminars we just did at GenCon last weekend. Lastly, but certainly not least, the folks here on the forums are extremely helpful, offering all sorts of ideas and guidance to anyone who asks.
Hope this helps!
The free web-based player access that is actively being developed should suffice for a large number of players. It's a limited subset of the full Player Edition, but it will provide a level of access that many players will consider to be plenty. We'll be officially detailing the specifics as we get closer to release in the upcoming months.
You can preview what the players will see with Player Edition from within the GM Edition. So your best bet is to purchase only the GM Edition and spend some time getting familiar with it. Put some test material in to see how it works for you, and preview what the players would see via Player Edition. You might find that, like a lot of GMs, the in-play support is all you really need for your players, in which case you don't even need to bother with Player Edition. It really depends on your group's play style.
The most important thing I can say is that Realm Works is often overwhelming at first. It does so many different things that users often aren't sure where to start. The tutorial videos are a great help with this, as is the documentation (ew, yuck!). There are also videos of past seminars we've done at shows, and new videos will be coming out shortly from the seminars we just did at GenCon last weekend. Lastly, but certainly not least, the folks here on the forums are extremely helpful, offering all sorts of ideas and guidance to anyone who asks.
Hope this helps!
Trusting a "money-back guarantee" goes against everything I've ever experienced...I have been screwed too many times using that phrase, to the extent that even hearing the phrase makes me immediately suspicious. However, from rob and Parody's comments it seems like it's at least worth trying out the GM edition - then I'd only be out $50. Thanks for the input, all.
MNBlockHead
Well-known member
TML, I know what you mean. I also complained about lack of a trial version. But RW isn't the only software company that uses money-back guarantee instead of a trial version. I think from the forum and with just a little digging it is clear that LWD is a legit company that will honor it guarantees, but if past experience makes you extra cautious, buying with a major credit card should help ensure that protection.
For me the tool is valuable without any players licenses. I really think that the players licenses are more for the players, so that have access to revealed content away from the game tables and can make their own notes. None of my players have purchased the players version and I don't see a reason to buy it for them. It is not a VTT like FantasyGround—the players don't need it for me to use it.
I first bought RW purely as a way to help create and manage my campaign world. I quickly realized its value in replacing the "DMs binder" and use it in running my sessions. I recently began using it at the table to reveal maps, since I can display them on a large plasma TV. None of this requires my players have the players version.
For me the tool is valuable without any players licenses. I really think that the players licenses are more for the players, so that have access to revealed content away from the game tables and can make their own notes. None of my players have purchased the players version and I don't see a reason to buy it for them. It is not a VTT like FantasyGround—the players don't need it for me to use it.
I first bought RW purely as a way to help create and manage my campaign world. I quickly realized its value in replacing the "DMs binder" and use it in running my sessions. I recently began using it at the table to reveal maps, since I can display them on a large plasma TV. None of this requires my players have the players version.
Thanks, MNBlockHead. I purchased it last night after reading the suggestions from you and others that it is useful without having Player's Editions. All of the marketing seems to drive me to only purchase it in (GM + Player packs), so until I heard from you guys here that it wasn't the only way to use the product, I was more hesitant.
And I didn't mean to impugn LWD - it has just been my experience that it's REALLY easy to say the words "money-back guarantee"; but that anyone who promises this then makes it so hard to ACTUALLY get your money back that you finally give up. Just like insurance companies - they become specialists in not letting the customer "penetrate the bureaucracy", without ever actually doing anything that would allow someone to pursue legal recourse.
And I didn't mean to impugn LWD - it has just been my experience that it's REALLY easy to say the words "money-back guarantee"; but that anyone who promises this then makes it so hard to ACTUALLY get your money back that you finally give up. Just like insurance companies - they become specialists in not letting the customer "penetrate the bureaucracy", without ever actually doing anything that would allow someone to pursue legal recourse.
Gamers are a tough crowd. I don't think we'd have made it 17 years selling products to gamers if we took the corporate philosophy of insurance companies.
Our single greatest marketing ally is our existing users, and that's something that is earned. If we made it difficult for people to get a refund, I'm sure that would quickly become well known and thereafter freely shared by others here on the forums.
We're far from perfect, but we're ethical and IMHO strive to be pretty reasonable about things.
Thanks for taking a chance on us. I hope that you're happy with the product. If not, let us know and we'll get a refund issued.
Our single greatest marketing ally is our existing users, and that's something that is earned. If we made it difficult for people to get a refund, I'm sure that would quickly become well known and thereafter freely shared by others here on the forums.
We're far from perfect, but we're ethical and IMHO strive to be pretty reasonable about things.
Thanks for taking a chance on us. I hope that you're happy with the product. If not, let us know and we'll get a refund issued.