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D&D Next

What's fascinating is according to the most recent stats that were released for fantasy grounds, that service was a dinosaur on its way to extinction; then suddenly out of nowhere a deal gets cut and they have all of this licensing for 5e, at pretty steep pricing I might add.

The result? It's saved the dinosaur and virtually no indication whatsoever that Herolab will ever see a license.

Unfortunate.
 
Yeah...that's an odd resurrection there. I don't know how many people are weird like me, but I bought DMGenie (which I LOVED), HeroLab, Klooge, D20Pro, Fantasy Grounds, and who knows what else...lost track.

For most of my games I had reduced things down to HL and D20Pro, but now the DM I trade off with has switched to 5E. The system IS simpler, but for me part of character management is just STORAGE - knowing that a player won't show up without his character. So after sitting idle on my LAST computer for years, I have installed Fantasy Grounds on my new computer, and bought the Players pack. I would have loved to keep going with HL and D20Pro, which I think is leaps and bounds above FG, but I had to move. When/If we play Shadowrun or Fate or d20 stuff, I'll pull HL out again, but for right now I only do about 20% of the DMing, so it's Fantasy Grounds....a bit of a bummer if this was a planned 'zap' of LW...but this is how it is.

I wish you folks the best, and maybe you will get a license...here's hoping.
 
Phlog, are you DMing a remote / virtual game? I looked into FG just for character management, but it seemed like a steep price for a product that is geared for virtual-table play. I didn't see much at-table application. For now, I make my players send me a photo of their character sheet before they leave at the end of the game and I load that into RW as an attached document to a person article.
 
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Phlog, are you DMing a remote / virtual game? I looked into FG just for character management, but it seemed like a steep price for a product that is geared for virtual-table play. I didn't see much at-table application. For now, I make my players send me a photo of their character sheet before they leave at the end of the game and I load that into RW as an attached document to a person article.

Huh, good idea there, thanks.

I too was contemplating buying FG just for character management, but frankly I don't want to support what I feel is foolish decision making on WOTC's part as far as licensing.

Don't recreate the wheel, HL is best at this medium, use them.
 
I have given up. The group has moved on and I can't get them to do either Pathfinder or 5th ed. I know Lone Wolf can't force WotC to give them a license. I just don't understand why it didn't happen. Hero Lab is the best of the character managers on the market. WotC has lost a great opportunity in my opinion.
 
I have given up. The group has moved on and I can't get them to do either Pathfinder or 5th ed. I know Lone Wolf can't force WotC to give them a license. I just don't understand why it didn't happen. Hero Lab is the best of the character managers on the market. WotC has lost a great opportunity in my opinion.

Gen Con is around the corner, its the best hope anyone has of a deal being hammered out or of any OGL release being mentioned. WotC has been more cautious with OGL licensing because it shot them in the foot in the past (opened an unclosable pandora's box which gave rise to Pathfinder). 4e's OGL didn't make the content open to third parties until wotc dropped 4e and began planning 5th. WotC hasn't been as open since the Hasbro buyout. Content authors were fired in the buyout too which is why 4e/5e books are so slow to emerge too.
 
Gen Con is around the corner, its the best hope anyone has of a deal being hammered out or of any OGL release being mentioned. WotC has been more cautious with OGL licensing because it shot them in the foot in the past (opened an unclosable pandora's box which gave rise to Pathfinder). 4e's OGL didn't make the content open to third parties until wotc dropped 4e and began planning 5th. WotC hasn't been as open since the Hasbro buyout. Content authors were fired in the buyout too which is why 4e/5e books are so slow to emerge too.

The heck with OGL. It would be nice, but there are many of us who would happily pay for core rules and Monster Manual content in HL and RW. I'm not sure how HL protects game system IP, but other game makers have allowed their content to be sold through HL. As for RW, it all depends on the content market. I am hoping that the content market is released by Gen Con.
 
The heck with OGL. It would be nice, but there are many of us who would happily pay for core rules and Monster Manual content in HL and RW. I'm not sure how HL protects game system IP, but other game makers have allowed their content to be sold through HL. As for RW, it all depends on the content market. I am hoping that the content market is released by Gen Con.

I hope something good comes from Gen Con in this regard. But, I have a feeling that both LW and WotC are being hard headed about this and it is hurting both of them (EDIT: and it is hurting gamers...)
 
The heck with OGL. It would be nice, but there are many of us who would happily pay for core rules and Monster Manual content in HL and RW. I'm not sure how HL protects game system IP, but other game makers have allowed their content to be sold through HL. As for RW, it all depends on the content market. I am hoping that the content market is released by Gen Con.

Pay for it, absolutely, plenty will. It's not likely an issie with Lone Wolf though. The staff is very willing to work with other companies. WotC has been difficult to work with since Hasbro bought them out. Many of the actual book authors were fired by Hasbro is the buyout. Pathfinder's system was formed by many former writers of WotC, Jason Buhlmann was part of the 3.5 Eberron writing staff. Even Kobold Press has numerous familiar author names. 5e has been outsourcing writing to Kobold Press (the tiamat modules were written by KP and you can see their logo on the books). WotC doesn't have as many writers as it needs, sadly. Gen Con is the best hope you'll get for a deal as reps from both companies will be there. Do bear in mind that Hero Lab is the official character builder of Pathfinder, however. Which may be a reason WotC isn't as forthcoming on this we'd like to see. Pathfinder stomped a mudhole into 4e and walked the receipts of sale dry afterward. OGL shot them in the foot along with bad business decisions on Hasbro's acquisitions department.
 
I didn't realize that HL was the "official" character builder of Pathfinder. What makes it official? Is it the only character generator that Pathfinder supports? Fantasy Grounds also sells Pathfinder content, so WoTC isn't demanding exclusivity.

I really love 5e, but I am very perplexed at the lack of good game aids. I find that since I bought the three core rules, all my money spent on my DnD campaign has gone to companies other than WoTC. DnD is the ONLY RPG I play. I probably spend on the higher end for my hobby than the typical player, but WoTC/Hasbro sees none of it.

All my money is going to Patreon (Enworld's En5ider), Pathfinder (for aids like their combat pad), Lone Wolf (for the software and cloud storage, and hopefully the content market), and a variety of small companies on DrivethruRPG.

Other than the good-enough spell cards and crap DM screens from Gale Force 9, for which WoTC would get some licensing fee, they have been wholly unsuccessful in profiting from my passion for 5e.

If WoTC can't make good digital products in-house, then carefully license them to existing, proven companies like Lone Wolf.

Do they really think that the only way to maximize profitability without diluting the brand is to put out a couple several-hundred page adventure path books a year? Is that what most DnD fans want?
 
I hope something good comes from Gen Con in this regard. But, I have a feeling that both LW and WotC are being hard headed about this and it is hurting both of them (EDIT: and it is hurting gamers...)

I find it hard to believe that LW is being hardheaded. Even if LW make little to no profit from the WoTC IP, having that content available would lead to more sales of HL and RW.

I suspect that this is all on WoTC.
 
MNBlockhead, there is an official license agreement between Paizo and Lone Wolf, hence official. Licensing allows Hero Lab devs to add and store data in the software and sell it without having to worry about copyright infringement issues.

WotC's track record hasn't been great since Mike Mearls took over as the D&D lead author. Most of the 3.5 authors now work for smaller companies like KP (who support pathfinder as well) and paizo. 5th edition support will require either licensing or OGL. Gen Con is the only time of time of year Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson's ghosts walk the earth, so its the ideal time to hammer a license with the gaming gods at the dwarven foundry. As I've been hinting at, its not necessarily WotC being stubborn either, Hasbro factors into things too. Hasbro has been pulling the strings at WotC for years now.
 
RavenX, got it. I was thinking you were using official like some companies/events use sponsorship. like "Big Blue's Drool, the official bear of the Minnesota lumberjack olympics." I assume that Fantasy Grounds has official licenses with Paizo as well, which obviously didn't prevent a deal with WoTC.

Yes, I suspect that Hasbro is going to be especially protective of their IP, especially given WoTC's history with the free-love approach in the past. Still, so long as they are getting money from licensing, I would have thought that the issue would have been Hasbro being overly incestuous at the risk of diluting and cheapening the brand.

I appreciate WoTC's cautious approach to releasting content, especially "crunch". But licensing to third parties, especially for digital tools, is moving too slowly.
 
WotC being owned by Hasbro combined with the downsizing is a huge issue. WotC's free love approach worked out for gamers. We got a large variety of products and settings from great writers. WotC's downsizing after Hasbro bought them is a huge problem. Hasbro is likely where you'd have to go to get a license. WotC may not have any power to issue licensing without megacorporate approval from their overlords.
 
I share DMing duties with another, and he is running 5e. Because of this nonsense I doubt that I will ever run 5e, but because half (or more if I'm lazy and just play more) of my gaming time is in 5th Edition D&D, and because I like the convenience of PC tools, for the first time in years I've updated my Fantasy Grounds license and bought the 5E data packs. I want to stay with HL and d20Pro, but it's hard to support two separate products, not just from the money standpoint, but having to learn all the details of two different tools with vastly different workflows....yick
 
@phloog...its sad, because 5e is such a great rule set. With support for digital tools they woud, I think, attrack back many people from Pathfinder.
 
@phloog...its sad, because 5e is such a great rule set. With support for digital tools they woud, I think, attrack back many people from Pathfinder.

I'd beg to differ on this, as my group tried 5e and said they'd prefer 3.5 or 2e. 5th harkens back to the days of basic red box d&d and the rules cyclopedia. Its very simple. That having been said, without extensive modifications it won't attract back the Advanced D&D or 3.5 crowd. It lacks options and is over simplified to a point the pathfinder enthusiast isn't likely to give up Pathfinder for it. If Mike Mearls wants to win back the 3.5/pathfinder players, options are going to have to be on the table, a lot of options. 5e's been out a year and we have yet to see any official campaign setting material (adventure modules set in Toril are not campaign setting, just adventures). Murder in Baldur's Gate was nice since they fleshed out the city enough you could reuse it but they need to push out an actual Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting with races and new options. Comparatively pathfinder's inner sea world setting has been out for awhile and offers nearly same complexity as 3.5 FR did (hint: Ed Greenwood helped with its creation).

Mearls did well on his initial release but the follow up for this year hasn't been great. I was hoping they'd unveil a new setting book at least for Gen Con. Pathfinder has been continuously releasing material without months of lagtime between. 5 won't pull us back without more incentive, which means better releases of material. Core rulebooks are great but when you own a lot of settings amd are just sitting on them, its kind of a huge waste to just push core rulebooks out.

As for digital tools, its not needed as the system is really basic. Standard photocopied sheets do the job just fine. Its not that complicated that digital tools are necessary. They'd be nice to have, but it comes down to it, I think
I'd prefer to see Keith Baker or Margaret Weis get dibsies on licensing so we can get actual campaign settings before worrying about digital tools. Eberron. Dragonlance, and Forgotten Realms would all be great additions to the game and give me more incentive to run it.
 
Pathfinder fans are drawn to it, as you said, due to the myriad of options. Digital tools won't sway them one way or the other. But to me, and a few others - Pathfinder is comparable to a giant swiss army knife... The kind with 100+ different little doohickeys. Chances are, I'll only ever use 1/3 of them, and that's generous. Don't get me wrong, I loved it... But it is simply mechanically outdated, in my opinion. Adding more classes/feats/monsters/options to an older model does not the new hotness make. :P

The wealth of 5e is a hearty core. One that, while simple, remains versatile. The new systems and the mixes of the old lead to a satisfyingly old-school feel, whilst still giving you room to do things the way you want to. Honestly the only thing I can't think of being able to make in 5e are the mildly wonky, somewhat setting-dependent classes like Gunslinger or Alchemist. And there's always homebrew.

To me, a good electronic toolkit, like trusty Hero Lab, would be an immeasurable boon, not for simplicity and conveniences sake alone, but for sanity too. Having a streamline, redundancy-checking, "here's the bits, see what you can make" program gives all of the above; comfort, simplicity, convenience, and a good resource-freeing way to experiment with builds or make mountains of NPCs. Not only that but my players who I've also indoctrinated into the cult of Lone Wolf would also be very happy - and I could end the chantings of "5E When. 5E When." Whenever Hero Lab gets brought up. :D

It could all be a pipedream if Hasbro/WotC/Whatever decides to be miserly... But I feel it necessary to re-iterate to everyone on the Hero Lab development crew - this may not be necessary, but it would be unfathomably appreciated. :)
 
I find it hard to believe that LW is being hardheaded. Even if LW make little to no profit from the WoTC IP, having that content available would lead to more sales of HL and RW.

I suspect that this is all on WoTC.

As quoted on ENWorld, Mike Mearls said this: "* The license for Fantasy Grounds is not exclusive, so potentially other platforms can license the content from them."

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/conten...rview-from-GenCon)#.Vb6yybXGAjw#ixzz3hhrdnDY2
 
Kinda wish I didn't write the bit about attracting PF users. I didn't mean to start 5e vs. PF debate. Each to their own.

I like 5e and have built a custom world based on it, so I'm invested in the game system.

As for needing or not needing digital tools, we've been getting on with paper character sheets just fine (though I do take a photo of them with my iPhone at the end of each game session so I have a backup), but it would be handy to have. Even more than HL, I would like the PHB, DMG, and Monster Manual content in RealmWorks.
 
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