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My Players Reaction To Player Edition

I for some reason just assumed PE was realtime sync, I thought that was the reason for the cloud, like how Roll20 uses the cloud, never really looked too hard at the specs I guess.

That's too bad its not, anyone not playing face to face will not find it as useful. Even face to face I'd rather have a live PE that any player could bring up on their own notebook, live no syncing required. Then they can move around looking up things while others take notes while on the big screen the GM displays what information he wants them to see via PV.

Maybe the PE web version could be live sync when the GM syncs so the players don't have to sync at least?

For non face to face games if I was a player I would love to have a VTT open on one screen and PE open on another if it was live syncing. Just imagine all the world's info at your finger tips.

If I was the player I would still find PE as is very useful, but most of my players will never use it in between sessions. They might bring it up during a session on their own notebook and see information they needed even if its not synced, that could be useful. So I think I'll hold off on that five PE purchase I was about to do. Will just use PV for our face to face and live with that.

My ultimate wish would be for a RW that was more like the Roll20 model. Everyone connects to a central server and sees all the data change in real time. Even better then would be different player views like you can do with roll20. So you can reveal information to some players, but not others, etc.

The problem with using just PV during the face to face is the players can't add notes about things they find during the session directly in RW since its all on the GM's computer. That would be more useful for players I think. THey come upon a NPC, ask some questions, then jot some notes down about the guy, we need to ask him something else next day or he is hiding something. Then when you don't play for another month you can see your notes. Yes you can do these notes between sessions, but my players won't unfortunately.

But I still think RW is a great program, can't wait for the calendar, would love weather! :)
 
Viking2054 said:
We're still waiting for the survey. But LWD announced they'd be sending out a survey sometime in the near or not so near future, only LWD knows when. But if I recall correctly LWD was going to put up for vote via the survey what people wanted to see worked on the most. I'm not sure, but I think I remember the survey being broken down into a couple of areas... Major things that would consume most of the developers time and then Simpler things that could be worked on when some of the developers have a spare hour or two while waiting for something or someone.
Click to expand...
There was a post in the last week or so that indicated that it was coming out in early December.

<hypnotize>Calendar is #1</hypnotize>
 
weogarth said:
There was a post in the last week or so that indicated that it was coming out in early December.

<hypnotize>Calendar is #1</hypnotize>
Click to expand...
no....

56591993.jpg
 
I find Individual Player Reveal, Web Access and Content Market somehow more important.
But I guess everyone has the personal opinion on that. Can't wait for the Survey.
 
To hell with the survey.

Monies were exchanged for the KickStarter. A contract was entered into. It is not being honored. I'm pretty damned irked that we don't know when we'll receive the product we were promised while LWD plays smoke and mirrors, woe-is-me, work-work-work. I expected the full package in July 2013 as promised and now we're 1.5 years later with many primary features completely in limbo. No basic implementation. No build on it later. Just nothing there. I'm done with excuses.

As clearly stated on January 25, 2013 by Rob:
@David Rosson: Printing support will be provided, but that's not the primary focus of Realm Works, so it won't be highly sophisticated in the initial release. For example, there won't be lots of formatting options to make the output especially pretty. The emphasis will be on functionality instead.
Some of your examples could be construed as being driven by potentially complex queries, and that's not part of the initial release plan. However, there will be a moderate level of filtering provided that should satisfy the majority of users' needs. A sophisticated printing engine that supports complex queries is definitely something we could add. As I've mentioned to a few others, the evolution of Realm Works will be primarily driven by what customers ask for. If highly flexible printing is a priority to users, that's what we'll focus on after initial release.
 
User-defined calendars were also part of the "initial release" sales pitch, they exist and are currently disabled.

Software development, yada yada.

There are a number of features that were "promised" and aren't there. The survey will help guide their development schedule.

Right now survey > original sales pitch features.
 
It wasn't a pitch. Monies were exchanged for promises made.

The promises need to be fulfilled in the most expeditious manner, not by a farcical vote. All of the promises. The devs know what needs to be done and what the contingencies are. GET IT DONE.
 
Sorry to be an ass but your contract also includes the following:

Risks and challenges

Every project has risks, and software projects are notorious for delays. The key difference for Realm Works is that most of the work on Realm Works has already been completed, so there’s virtually no risk to product delivery.

...blah, blah, blah, we're great....

As with any software project, there is a chance that the release of Realm Works could be delayed, either due to problems on our part (a delay in hiring additional staff, for example) or because additional functionality is needed before the product is ready. This could impact the release of Realm Works to the public.

It’s also possible that we could face unexpected challenges in building Realm Works’ cloud capabilities. Building a multi-user server system is a lot of work and involves a lot of complexity. However, we've spent a lot of time coming up with a solid design for this, and have good tools to build it, so we’re confident that we can make this happen.

With your support, we can put the last building blocks in place and bring Realm Works to gamers everywhere!
Click to expand...

then there is this from the Kickstarter site:
Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. On Kickstarter, backers (you!) ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it.
Click to expand...

Now, had you BOUGHT the software at date X and the current features AT THAT TIME were said to be Y and it wasn't true, THEN you certainly have a case.

Yes, you can complain, yes, some features are taking longer than promised, but YES, you were told that it was a possibility, particularly at the Kickstarter phase.

I paid 250$ for a lifetime membership on Obsidian portal during their kickstarter. Most of their objectives have not been completed and the devs have all but disappeared from the site. Well, I'm a lifetime member all right, but the features I wanted will probably never materialize (which is why I picked up RW). Getting pissy on the forums won't change anything, for you or me, and it will just poison the atmosphere.

So, respectfully, please, can we tone it down a notch? I saw the forums on OP go downhill this way and I would like to avoid it happening here. RW is far further along the list of things to do than OP is and they seem to be moving in the right direction if not quite at the speed we'd all like.
 
Dark Lord Galen said:
Wow? What does one say to this? I'm personally stunned and not sure (mark it down it down doesn't happen often).
I guess I'm fortunate? in nearly 30yrs of DMing (yea don't like the phrase GM<old school grunard here>) I have never had a shortage of players. At times I have had a shortage of chairs. :eek:
Years ago, I floated games in three rooms with 20+ people (not ideal but we were young and had fun then) but through the years, I have maintained an average of about 10.
I'm not sure (lying here. cause I guess, I think, I do know) how my own players would respond if they read a post such as this if I were to post it.:(

To me (IMO FWIW) 99% of all players have something meaningful to contribute. The more difficult challenge is finding a cohesive mix of personalities (both at the table & in game) that work well together. Surely at the mecca of RPG (indi is still the locale for Gen-con after all) there must be a surplus of players and resources?

Not to be caustic or judgmental (cause I certainly don't know the details) but Pollution, take your own advice, cherish your players. Having a game with no players is as much fun as having players that have no game to play in. Both, in the end don't work.

Just remember, the hardest "role" to Play.. is the DM. It takes a mixture of accountant, bookkeeper, analyst, improv actor, script writer, counselor referee, and multitudes of others blended together and combined with the ability to multitask, compartmentalize and cram all of that into a fun incursion for friends. Often having to do so with less time than you would normally like to have. Not exactly an "easy" job, that is why most don't want, and fewer love it. (I fall into the love it category probably not a surprise to most)

Your other postings within threads are good and insightful my friend, I hope this was just a bad day...:confused:

@LWD Liz> My apologies Liz for usurping thread AGAIN, but sometimes it is just not in my nature (my wife would say most times here) to leave some things unresponded.
Click to expand...

I've been running games for around 20 years or so (just over). I took a break of about 5 years from all gaming completely. I got back into it for a few years, break, back in, break, etc...

ALL my old gaming buddies are either:

A) gone, moved, or vanished
B) Only playing LARPS
C) Completely uninterested in gaming anymore.

My current players are great guys, really, even the potato (the 17 year old). We have a nice dinner, they bring stuff, we play, laugh, it's a good time. But 2 of them are just lame. One is COMPLETELY new to gaming, and the other is one of those reactionary players (never plans ahead, never has a goal, etc...)

The new player was making his hunter character for my Vigil game, and when going through the merit changes in the God Machine Chronicles update he saw Pyrokenisis. He's all like, "I WANT THAT!!!!!" I told him, "No. We're playing hunter, human characters only, the story won't work if anyone's psychic, I didn't let anyone else do it. The point of this game is to be NORMAL and fight monsters. Maybe next time." He got all pissed off. I think the quote was, "Dude, unfair! The rule is in it and you're just going to cherry pick what you can do and what you can't?" I was floored. Seriously, this guy's the same one who says he's never read any of the books I gave him access to, and who said he'd NEVER use RW:PE. I'm a bit at a loss with this guy. Very tempted to not invite ever again.

He's not a dick, just.....new....he doesn't get it. He claims to really want to play, but his attitude lately is for shit.

Again, I LOVE this product. I can see this software going CRAZY popular to the point of being required in just a few short years, kinda like HL has almost become. But my players, they don't care. It's lame. I'm sad.

I think what's got me the most annoyed at all this reaction from my group is that nobody will see the full extent of what I've done. Seriously, I just put in EVERY Attribute, Skill, Merit, and common roll from the nWoD core book (about 8 hours work) into RW when i was told that they'd never use it. I think that's what made me the most pessimistic lately.
 
I want printing, calendars, and exporting to d20pro but i am not going to lose any sleep if they do not get it done this year. Rome was not built in a day ... neither will realm works.
 
AEIOU, I wasn't part of the Kickstarter, so I just went through the Kickstarter text and picked out things that I think were not delivered, or that I don't know the status of. It's almost all extra content.

The only program functionality that was promised specifically in the kickstarter that isn't available is the marketplace and calendars. (Granted, marketplace is pretty much one of the fundamental reasons for the program existing).

So, the detailed listing:


FUNCTIONALITY NOT RELEASED SO FAR:

* "Third, enable GMs to share their creations and smoothly integrate the work of others into their own material, weaving it all together into their campaign."

* "Finally, provide a community repository where additional material can be obtained and easily integrated with any other content you have, including the GM's own creations, letting GMs build their games from whatever sources they find compelling or interesting."

* "Create custom calendars for your world. Link multiple calendars together and see how all the dates translate to your master calendar. Calendars can reflect different in-game cultures, lunar calendars, and worlds."

* "GMs can share their creations through the cloud for use by others."

* "GMs can browse the work of others and integrate it into their own worlds."


BASIC CONTENT NOT RELEASED SO FAR:

* "Realm Works also includes “Isle of Kandril”, a complete setting created by Super Genius Games and available only with Realm Works."


STRETCH GOALS NOT MET SO FAR:

* The Grande Temple of Jing. All Backers who choose the Timber Wolf ($65 pledge) or higher reward tier will receive this challenging temple "fully integrated into Realm Works"

* Never Unprepared: The Complete Gamemasters Guide to Prep "fully integrated into Realm Works"

* Masks: 1000 Memorable NPCs "fully integrated into Realm Works"

* Eureka 501 Adventure Plots "fully integrated into Realm Works".

* Halls of the Mountain King - Estimated delivery: September 2013.


STRETCH GOALS I DO NOT KNOW THE STATUS OF:

* Blood Drive Trilogy - Estimated delivery: August 2013.

* The Blight - Estimated delivery: October 2013 and ongoing for 12 months

* Pirate's Guide to Freeport - Estimated delivery: September 2013.

* Razor Coast - Estimated delivery: September 2013.

* Free Hero Lab license - Estimated delivery: March 2013

* T-Shirts
 
@Seregil: You are not being an ass. And I'm not going to tone it down a notch. I have a track record of 350 posts of support and encouragement.

@MaxSupernova: The comments section is just as binding as the KS page. It's part of the negotiations and pledges were made based on the responses given.

As a KS backer, I provided seed money and I have the right and obligation to help LWD to help themselves by providing a swift kick in the pants on occasion. This is one of those occasions. Do they have to listen? Not in the least. What they do with my commentary is up to them. But there are a lot of people that are dissatisfied due to key features being pushed back month after month after month.

Happy Turkey Day everyone!
 
The player version is still very barebones and definitely WIP, but just like with Hero Lab, I am starting to gain a creeping feeling that it was developed for a use case unlike that of me, my group, or any group I have ever participated in, for that matter.

The biggest issue for my players remains responsiveness. I an worried that this might be related to the was the database and overall program are set up and that it's nothing that will ever improve. This is a BIG one, and I just cannot stress enough how much a UI that feels sluggish or unresponsive can turn away users. Maybe I'm a bit too usability focused due to being an online marketing professional, but seriously, this is something that needs work.

Secondly, for me as a GM, changing around templates to fit one's group's particular campaign is way too bulky as well - there should be a possibility to start with all predesigned entry types hidden, so one can build custom entries without having to sift through a massive list half of which is not really usable for one's own purpose. This has become more of an issue since my players have started seeing the way my data is set up and suggested changes. Going through hundreds of entries to update the way they are laid out is not optimal.

On a sidenote regarding this thread, I feel that undue focus is put on having a content marketplace of sorts. I realize that some groups play in published settings and adventures, but again, my point here is that my experience in particular just doesn't really fit where the software seems to be going. I, as a GM, generally don't 'do' anything published. I adapt systems, but the rest is always custom-made. That said, I see that there's a demand for it, but I think addressing issues of usability for content creators should come before expanding content sharing.
 
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AEIOU said:
As a KS backer, I provided seed money and I have the right and obligation to help LWD to help themselves by providing a swift kick in the pants on occasion. This is one of those occasions. Do they have to listen? Not in the least. What they do with my commentary is up to them. But there are a lot of people that are dissatisfied due to key features being pushed back month after month after month.
Click to expand...

You're a kickstarter backer, which is essentially a donor, with hopes of getting a product. There are no guarantees.

I, on the other hand, actually paid full retail for this. I'm in the same "waiting for what was promised" boat for the actual product and service that I paid money for. Plus I am now slowly losing my "cloud time".

As it is, I'm not going to renew without some serious advances in functionality, and I'm already looking at going back to using a wiki.
 
@AEIOU, your comments (and all other similar feedback) have most definitely heard. We're aware that things haven’t progressed as we had initially hoped, and we understand where your frustration is coming from.

In fact, the survey is designed to give users like you a chance to be heard as we begin working on some of those other features that were in our original Realm Works vision. I think it’s important to explain that there are certain features, like the ones @MaxSupernova highlighted from the Kickstarter, that are not a matter of “if” but “when”. Whereas, some of the features from the Feature Request forums fall more squarely into the “if” category. That’s one reason why we’re separating the survey into multiple sections.

One section, as it is currently designed, is going to focus on the big features that are definitely on our to-do list. Many of these big features will be worked on one at a time (maybe two). If it doesn’t matter whether we implement big feature A first versus big feature B, we wouldn’t want to focus on big feature B, when 85% of our users are clamoring for big feature A (and you wouldn’t want us to either). That's where the survey comes in. As Chemlak said, it’s helping us guide our development schedule by giving us data on what’s important to our users.

A separate section will help us determine the interest in the small features, which will get our development time as time allows. For instance, if big feature A is being worked on and a developer can knock of a small feature request while waiting on another developer to make progress on big feature A, why not complete a small feature that is highly requested by users? That’s our rationale for doing a survey on the smaller features too.

I hope that clarifies the survey a bit. Please don’t hesitate to ask for further clarification, here or in a PM. :)
 
monsterfurby said:
The player version is still very barebones and definitely WIP, but just like with Hero Lab, I am starting to gain a creeping feeling that it was developed for a use case unlike that of me, my group, or any group I have ever participated in, for that matter.

Player Version isn't bare bones it does exactly what it was intended to do, minus of course features yet to be brought into RW. Not sure what HL has to do with RW, but what creeping feeling keeps you from using HL? In my group 6 of the 7 use it, I can't imagine gaming with out it now. Considering if your like me and have near 25yrs in RPG gaming and over a dozen groups, I find it weird that none could use RW or HL, when I am pretty much sure all of my groups would love to use HL and have RW, just 20yrs ago we did not have nice small lappies and tablets.

Also as a custom content creator, Having Herolab and its editor? Money as of now I have drafted 18 races for my game world into HL and just finished final test of 3. I have custom weapons, custom gear, all done so they just click and create, HL is th ebest custom GM tool I have ever used. Better than paper, as it does the calculations and work for you. Best part is between RW and HL my entire campaign is my own IP and fully electronic, no reems of paper, and notes and rules, want to create a Daedrea Human magus? NP fire up HL enable World of Daede, turn off all PF Campaign seeting materials, and you are in business. Want to know the world history? the lore of the Humans and their relatiosn with the Hominex, NP fire up Realm works, sync my game and ther eis it, all the player knowledge needed to begin play, all the hostory and lore that is "public" knowledge. Want to know what NPCs/Places/things you have contact with in Daedrea City? NP look at it in RW, itsall there baby, every thingyou have seen, done, learned, met, and visited.

The biggest issue for my players remains responsiveness. I an worried that this might be related to the was the database and overall program are set up and that it's nothing that will ever improve. This is a BIG one, and I just cannot stress enough how much a UI that feels sluggish or unresponsive can turn away users. Maybe I'm a bit too usability focused due to being an online marketing professional, but seriously, this is something that needs work.

Responsivenss means your not using RW for what it was meant for. Really too bad so many seem to have so far off the mark expectations. RW is a campaign management tool, not a VTT. But everyone seems ot think you manage a campaign much like you run a battlemap over a VTT. For me? The idea of after game sync to ensure every player hass full access to all historical data and information is spot on. No more losing hand outs, which happens every campaign, no more missing players missing info, or notes not taken. Simply look in RWPE and the info is there. What happens today? Thats in the brain, thats in the now, do not need to sync what you were just told, it should be fresh and right there.

Secondly, for me as a GM, changing around templates to fit one's group's particular campaign is way too bulky as well - there should be a possibility to start with all predesigned entry types hidden, so one can build custom entries without having to sift through a massive list half of which is not really usable for one's own purpose. This has become more of an issue since my players have started seeing the way my data is set up and suggested changes. Going through hundreds of entries to update the way they are laid out is not optimal.

Now that is a clever feature request, and one you should have put in the thread!

On a sidenote regarding this thread, I feel that undue focus is put on having a content marketplace of sorts. I realize that some groups play in published settings and adventures, but again, my point here is that my experience in particular just doesn't really fit where the software seems to be going. I, as a GM, generally don't 'do' anything published. I adapt systems, but the rest is always custom-made. That said, I see that there's a demand for it, but I think addressing issues of usability for content creators should come before expanding content sharing.

Marketplace doesn't get near the attention of printing or calendars, so not sure where you seem to be worried about market place being so important, but it is to some degree. I am willing to bet 75%of all gaming groups use published content. paizo's sales seem to back this up too. I am the odd ball GM from my gamign days, more than 3/4 of all GMs I have played under use published material, and now in my group we are 7, and 4 GMs and I am the only one doing custom material. The market place is huge for Paizo Aps, since Pathfinder is by far and away the single most popular game system right now.
Click to expand...


With player view you have a dynamic update window, but Player Edition was meant as a near line storage medium, not an online or dynamic one. RW stands to remove so many issues around the gaming table I have seen and dealt with for 20+ years, I can't wait to introduce it to my players.

Of course I coudl just be mad, and delusional.
 
First, I'm a big RealWorks fan. As a GM, it's the tool I've been seeking forever in terms of managing campaign info.

Specific to the Player Edition, I purchased 2 license today. One is currently installed on my son's computer. I was able to invite him to the Realm. He was able to accept the invitation. He was also able to see the info flagged for players after the initial sync.

However, subsequent sync attempts result in the issue described earlier up-thread: On a sync attempt, Sync Status says "Sync". No "Up to date" is displayed but perhaps this is normal. He recieves a "sync successful" message.

However, upon trying to open the realm (the only one he's been invited to at present), he gets a menu citing the following choices:
Warning! This realm is out-of-date. (even though it just sync'd successfully)

1. Sync my realm now.
2. Load realm without syncing.
3. I have no intention of syncing this realm in the future.
4. Return to Realms list.

Selecting 1 returns a "sync successful" message. However, attempting to open the realm brings us right back to the four choices menu.

Selecting option 2. This is the only way to bypass the Warning screen and see content. Unfortunately, it only displays info from the original sync. Updates that have been made since then are not displayed.


I've only given my son the 30k' view but he thought it was cool.

I understand working through these issues may take some time. I'm very hopeful of the product and future enhancements and know LW is doing its best to create the best products possible. I just wanted to pass along the bug issue to help product improvements.

Thanks
 
Exmortis said:
Of course I coudl just be mad, and delusional.
Click to expand...

I think you misunderstand what I mean with responsiveness. I don't mean updating/uploading things, since my main use for the software is as a more or less static encyclopedia between games. What I mean with responsiveness are simple load times and usability issues, i.e. having to confirm several dialog boxes to switch topic, waiting several seconds before a change is saved or a topic loaded. That's completely independent from the individual use case and a simple matter of comfort.

If Outlook, with a database size of 5 GB can do it, and if pretty much any SQL database I've worked it of any size can do it, I'd imagine my 80 MB Database in RW should as well.
 
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