-
Please note: In an effort to ensure that all of our users feel welcome on our forums, we’ve updated our forum rules. You can review the updated rules here: http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=5528.
If a fellow Community member is not following the forum rules, please report the post by clicking the Report button (the red yield sign on the left) located on every post. This will notify the moderators directly. If you have any questions about these new rules, please contact support@wolflair.com.
- The Lone Wolf Development Team
Transferring Topics Between Campaigns
- Thread starter RampagingHoardes
- Start date
Dark Lord Galen
Well-known member
ifandbut said:
While your realms may be set in the same world, Realm Works (from a programing perspective) is oblivious to that. There will be just as many that would not want to "pollute" one set of data for one Realm into a different Realm (ie file) because Databases seldom have an "undo button".
Like you describe, I also have several "game session groups" exploring the same world,,, just differing places...
The ability to transfer from one realm to another (both internally & through the marketplace) is soon to come and is the cleanest approach from a programing perspective... IMO.. and not to speak for LWD, Rob, or his team.
Rob, perhaps the middle ground is to allow the ability to create a duplicate realm when closing(via a save as) and allow for renaming it? This would give users the ability to create core versions of their realms and jumpstart them when a new group comes along, or to brainstorm, etc without impacting the original. In other database (And spreadsheet)applications we all can relate to making a duplicate to test drive something and preserve our base line data from corruption until we get the result we are looking for. This approach, like all realms, would still be contained within the same overall user database, and would not be markedly different to the user creating a new realm within the RealmWorks Database.. is it?
Last edited:
Dark Lord Galen
Well-known member
@ Ifandbut...
Was also curious why you just don't have different groupings, plots ect for each group and contain within ONE Realm? If they are within the same world? Unless there are rulesets and things that don't exist in one group that do for the other... there is really no need to separate.....
I approached it from a build world perspective first,, and down to regions, countries, cities, Peoples , PCs... but that is the nice thing about RW.. you can approach a lot of different ways to get the method you want.
Was also curious why you just don't have different groupings, plots ect for each group and contain within ONE Realm? If they are within the same world? Unless there are rulesets and things that don't exist in one group that do for the other... there is really no need to separate.....
I approached it from a build world perspective first,, and down to regions, countries, cities, Peoples , PCs... but that is the nice thing about RW.. you can approach a lot of different ways to get the method you want.
This is how I am handling this issue, but I wouldn't say it's ideal. For example, every time RW expands every section of my topics (I haven't yet figured out when it decides to do this and why), I have to scroll for a mile to get to my "second" campaign in my single Realm.
Dark Lord Galen
Well-known member
Yea that's a bit of an annoyance.. I would also prefer that the default were collapsed or some means of box check for preference... maybe in the future.
I like this idea.
Also something as simple as letting us have more then one realm open at a time (or 2 copies of Realm Works open on the same computer accessing 2 different realms) would be great as well.
While some of the adventures are set in the same world/universe they are separated by years or decades. So I want to be able to keep some events separate between the 2 campaigns so I dont get confused and miss the note that says an event happens in the future. Then, things that I wanted to keep the same I could export over.
Also, the main reason I wanted to transfer topics right now is that one group is moving to a whole different system and setting but I had made alot of random tables and the like that are generic enough to move between the 2 systems and I wanted to port them over to a new realm file. Yes, I could use an external application like Word or Excel but Realm Works was supposed to eliminate that need.
Yea that's a bit of an annoyance.. I would also prefer that the default were collapsed or some means of box check for preference... maybe in the future.
OK, good...it is not just me. I wish it would save which topics were expanded between sessions of the program.
Dark Lord Galen
Well-known member
@ifandbut...
Your not grasping something fully....
any realms your create (or later purchase via marketplace) still reside within one database. Your database, coded to you the user. The situation you are describing (if I understand your desire correctly) would be opening multiple "files" (ie Realm sources) simultaneously within one database file. This is a situation (I believe) LWD is trying to avoid for a multitude of reasons. (IP, file corruption, etc are some that I wont address here)
To utilize your own analogy and your familiarity with another software, EXCEL.
While 99% of users have a familiarity with the use of a spreadsheet that number is far less when it comes to multiple users opening and operating within the same file at the same time ( I would speculate less than 20%). It's not that excel can't do it, it simply raises an additional level of programming to do such. For each shared user within the open spreadsheet (ie file or "realm" if you will) changes occur that must be rectified as approved or rejected by someone (usually the owner/ creator of said file) before those changes are executed and the file is saved....
Could LWD do this within a database? sure... the mechanics are not "that" dissimilar to when one syncs the realm they have with the one they have stored on the "cloud". As you have probably noticed, you can, at times, have a realm at home that is more current than the cloud or have a realm on the cloud more current than one on the PC... Realmworks asks you which takes precedence before proceeding. The choice you direct becomes preferred & RW ignores the other file.RW takes the architecture and data from the approved one you direct. Imagine having to do that within the OPEN ACTIVE REALMS within your database file for each of the changes you make to the realms in one session? A potential for LOTS of approvals and interruptions as realm works reconciles which change is applied where based on your "approvals".
Could you have 2 open simultaneously with one active and the other inactive (ie like spreadsheets again)? Maybe, clicking with a mouse to indicate which is currently active for you the user... possibly. But that is the easy part... I am certain that there are several complications within the C language RW is built on that would need addressing to make this even possible. I, However, defer to LWD and Rob on this parse... having not seen the core coding, it isn't my place to hypothesize the complexity of executing such.
Realmworks ,in its current state as a database file, looks at your realms as independent "spreadsheets of information" (for lack of a better comparison for this conversation) Taking the data you have already approved, and displaying it in a template (either default or customized by you).
Do both files (realms) know the architecture and structure of the template? sure, but you may have differing items on each such as calendars (as you noted) or differing geography etc... for Realmworks to maintain this separation (that you established by creating two realms to begin with) it treats them as such, separate. You could have simultaneous realms open but in its current state RW would have to be installed twice, to separate cloud accounts, etc.... for Realmworks to maintain that separation cleanly. And until the market place there would be no way the two could share data within each of there files (realms) with the other. Further I would speculate there would not be a time in the near future that you could do this simultaneously in two open realms.
Generally, this is also one reason databases, as opposed to spreadsheets, do not have an "undo" button. Actions within a database are executed when the command function is given, ie press edit button, etc. Once done the change becomes part of the whole and can't be "undone" without repeating the process. in a star trek vernacular it becomes part of the collective conscious of your Realm. Whereas you can close a spreadsheet without saving it and have tens of hours (depending on how long its been since you saved last) of work lost... excel doesn't execute any changes till you approve them,,, ie through an approval process (when "Shared") and by saving.
So the Realmworks core software would have to support the ability to determine which "realm" what changes apply to and separate default resources (ie memory, display, etc) into two, three, more realms? Certainly a potential tax on hardware. But for realmworks, it is several more layers of software programing to "run" simultaneously or merge together what was separate to begin with.
I hope you don't take any of this to offense... it isn't intended so... email and forums are a difficult venue to communicate by and not knowing your level of knowledge dealing with databases versus spreadsheets, I thought all that are not aware of such would find the detail helpful.
Best Regards
DLG
When the sexy marketplace is active, this issue should become moot. You'll be able to create a "master" realm, upload to the market as a private file, and then download it to create a copy as often as you'd like.
While I presume the realms in the marketplace are snapshots-in-time, I assume one could overwrite downloaded material with a newer snapshot or that there will be some of releasing corrections/addenda for released materials. So you could put everything about the world and ruleset into your master and then copy that data over the active ones which have the plots for their particular group to keep them all up-to-date with the current world/ruleset info.
While I presume the realms in the marketplace are snapshots-in-time, I assume one could overwrite downloaded material with a newer snapshot or that there will be some of releasing corrections/addenda for released materials. So you could put everything about the world and ruleset into your master and then copy that data over the active ones which have the plots for their particular group to keep them all up-to-date with the current world/ruleset info.
Ya, I did not understand that.
I assumed realms were their own separate files and when you selected the realm you wanted to work with it opened that file, just like one excel file is independent from another file, yet one excel file can have several tabs.
I wonder why they decided to have everything in one big file instead of separate files for each realm? And if everything is in one big file then why can each realm only access a small part of that file and not data from other parts/realms?
I am aware that software development is complex and nothing is just "as simple as ...". But all this information is just raising more questions about why some things are the way they are. What advantages did Realm Works get by putting everything in one big file instead of separate files for each realm?
I get that this is the way things are right now and no amount of feature requesting or complaining will change that. However, I still would like to understand WHY things are the way they are.
Dark Lord Galen
Well-known member
@AEIOU I agree and that is how I foresee it as well..... except the "sexy market place part"
@ IFandBut...
Databases by design collect LARGE quantities of data (information) and then act as custom filters (templates, searches, queries, "snipits" etc) to cull the info from a LARGE source into the desired request.... by having all the data in one place and allowing it to grow and expand makes the information more detailed,, more complete. The trade off is size of file (and file Bloat which I wont go into here) and a higher degree of complexity.
When we create Realms within our "database", we are instructing RW to keep these separate, that is why they cannot interact (currently). Think of it as two file cabinets containing similar information within the same room. Even though they exist in the same room, there may be a file on John Smith in both. One cabinet may contain all of John's purchases he made on line while the other might contain Johns favorite flower. Both contain information about John, but the information is separated by the way the cabinets were filled. IF instead all of John's information were kept in a single file, the file would be larger, but all the information on John would be in one place, and a search filter might deduce that Johns favorite flower must be a red rose because he had made 10 purchases of red roses in the last year (or John's wife likes red roses and John is in the dog house?
)Whereas in a spreadsheet, they all have basic functions alike and the data is arranged only certain ways (Columns and Rows). A database allows for ALOT of differing arrangements based on request, filters, templates (hopefully even reports someday)... Even spreadsheets have come to emulate this to a lesser extent (ie Pivot Tables, @lookup commands etc).
Its not to say separating your realms is "bad". If they are tooo dissimilar it makes sense.... If you have a 3.5 pathfinder D&D session, you may not ever have plans for it to converge with a Star Wars Roleplay. so you would want that separation.
If instead you are utilizing the same ruleset, the same campaign world but just differing groups in different locales, you could do either.. for me I keep them in one world and await the new and improved custom calendars to manage the one group in the land of humans and the other in the land of the Elves... (hint hint Rob
)But that is just me and ONE approach, not the only approach.
Last edited:
GroundZero86
Member
Anybody know if it is possible yet to move topics between campaigns?
GroundZero86
Member
Thanks guys, that was going to be my next question. I presume they haven't given us any details about what each phase will be yet.
That's unfortunate, I anticipate that I have about 3 months before my ongoing campaigns merge and I have been trying to hold off for the market place update, but it looks time is running out.
I hear you. Being able to transfer material between our own realms should be the top priority followed by popular rule sets or SRD integration, but I have a suspicion it'll be a handful of big name titles with hefty prices and then a stupid long wait for what we need. That said, I want to be wrong so let's hope that my predictions aren't accurate. 
MNBlockHead
Well-known member
I put my money on AEIOU's prediction, sans the "stupid-long time" phrase. The first phase will likely be a release of the highly vetted and well-tested materials from better-known publishers. The goals will likely be: (1) deliver stretch goals from the Kickstarter, (2) make sure the well-designed content—which uses all the best practices--plays well with realms it is integrated into and squash any identified bugs before opening the CM for anyone to make content available, (3) make money by having titles with a substantial amount of high-quality content.
Phase Two will likely be focused on any user being able to share and sell content. I would expect it would take several months for everything to settle after phase I.
This is all pure speculation. But it is fun way to pass the time while we way for next month's big announcement.
Phase Two will likely be focused on any user being able to share and sell content. I would expect it would take several months for everything to settle after phase I.
This is all pure speculation. But it is fun way to pass the time while we way for next month's big announcement.