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- The Lone Wolf Development Team
I'm sorry but,
- Thread starter immotus
- Start date
They DO let you choose your own focus. One of several ways to do it. Immotus, you really NEED to read the documentation that comes with this and watch the videos!!
They give you a lot of information on how to do things in Realm Works. Right now the user interface is fine and I was able to firgure things out fairly fast just by clicking around. But this IS a database program so the degree of difficulty is going to be a little on the difficult side of things. But it is up to YOU as a user to watch the videos and read the documentation. All of which have tons of information on RW!!
Its hard to be constructive when everyone is ganging up on you. This is true for both users and developers.
Its hard to take criticism fairly. Its especially hard when it doesn't seem constructive.
My point is this:
1. immotus - try to lay out exactly what you dont like, and how you wish it were different rather than a general complaint.
2. everyone else - keep in mind, immotus paid money for a product he (or she) doesn't feel is up to their standards. Thats a fair statement from anyone.
No need for anyone to be defensive.
Its hard to take criticism fairly. Its especially hard when it doesn't seem constructive.
My point is this:
1. immotus - try to lay out exactly what you dont like, and how you wish it were different rather than a general complaint.
2. everyone else - keep in mind, immotus paid money for a product he (or she) doesn't feel is up to their standards. Thats a fair statement from anyone.
No need for anyone to be defensive.
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mirtos,
Very well said.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I was trying to come up with something constructive, but it always came out sounding nasty and condescending, so I opted instead to take my mothers advice. "If you can't say something nice..."
So thanks for doing what I was unable to.
BoomerET
Very well said.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I was trying to come up with something constructive, but it always came out sounding nasty and condescending, so I opted instead to take my mothers advice. "If you can't say something nice..."
So thanks for doing what I was unable to.
BoomerET
Just as an FYI, when people come to the defense of Realm Works it is because they do not want to see it come in to a bad light because of possible ignorance in it's use. We here are all passionate about RW for a reason. It is difficult to see someone speak ill of it and not defend it with all of the passion we can.
We all know that there is a bit of a learning curve with this software, but it also comes with the material to overcome that learning curve if they actually use it. If a person comes here especially after being told about the manual AND the videos... and complains that it is to hard to use or it can't be done because it lacks focus.. Well expect the flames to get at least a little hot
We all know that there is a bit of a learning curve with this software, but it also comes with the material to overcome that learning curve if they actually use it. If a person comes here especially after being told about the manual AND the videos... and complains that it is to hard to use or it can't be done because it lacks focus.. Well expect the flames to get at least a little hot
Something I've done is make templates. Say for instance I'm generating a scene and there is always information that I will use but a lot of snippets or sections that I won't... I make one "blank" scene that only contains what I want, then I duplicate it and fill it out the way I want.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
It takes a little bit of setup but once that's done making new scenes is a breeze. This procedure works for almost any type of information in Realm Works.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
It takes a little bit of setup but once that's done making new scenes is a breeze. This procedure works for almost any type of information in Realm Works.
Defense of the product is one thing. Attacking the user is another. Just my two cents. I get passion. We're all passionate about this, especially when it comes to our game.
But, personally, as a software developer, all complaints can be valid. Even if someone doesnt read the documentation or watch the tutorials. Obviously, I cannot speak for LWD.
But, personally, as a software developer, all complaints can be valid. Even if someone doesnt read the documentation or watch the tutorials. Obviously, I cannot speak for LWD.
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Mirtos,
Being in IT myself I kn ow about complaints and the like and the value they provide when trying to fix things that crop up. As a developer I know it is tough too. But one also has to remember that text does not convey emotion very well. I am not attacking anyone... I am speaking or rather typing passionately and if anything speaking out of frustration not anger. I am trying to get through to the OP that it is easy or ALOT easier if the documentation was used and or even using the tutorial videos.
Database software is not easy to use for a reason. It has a lot of complicated parts. By it's very nature it has to be complicated. With that being said... this is by far the easiest and intuitive database software I have ever used. I used a lot of them. Realm Works shows us how a databased software could and should be for all of us.
If you think I am attacking the user/OP then let me apologize to both you and him. As I am not. But on the same token... the OP should be aware that there is a means to use this software and coming in to a forum about said product and starting a thread such as this one with out actually doing at least a little research in to how to use said software should expect some a little heat coming from the posters.
Being in IT myself I kn ow about complaints and the like and the value they provide when trying to fix things that crop up. As a developer I know it is tough too. But one also has to remember that text does not convey emotion very well. I am not attacking anyone... I am speaking or rather typing passionately and if anything speaking out of frustration not anger. I am trying to get through to the OP that it is easy or ALOT easier if the documentation was used and or even using the tutorial videos.
Database software is not easy to use for a reason. It has a lot of complicated parts. By it's very nature it has to be complicated. With that being said... this is by far the easiest and intuitive database software I have ever used. I used a lot of them. Realm Works shows us how a databased software could and should be for all of us.
If you think I am attacking the user/OP then let me apologize to both you and him. As I am not. But on the same token... the OP should be aware that there is a means to use this software and coming in to a forum about said product and starting a thread such as this one with out actually doing at least a little research in to how to use said software should expect some a little heat coming from the posters.
I actually rewrote my post a couple of times. I should have let version 2 stay. i know you werent, but some people seemed to be. Its one of the flaws of the internet, flaming is too easy. Im not stating that you did it, but that it was done. Im not trying to single ANYONE out.
Flaming generally serves little purpose and makes a possible useful debate devolve into defensiveness.
I do agree that the software is going to be complicated, and I also agree that RW has done an amazing job at keeping it relatively intuitive.
I also believe that the real problem with this thread is that the OP didn't cite any real specific complaints. Its the difference between criticism, and constructive criticism.
Still, I live by the adage, "the customer is always right".
But where you and I fundamentally disagree, is that a poster should ever expect "heat". Its something that has become commonplace in the internet, but is not a good quality of it. Its a fundamentally bad quality, in my opinion. It causes discourse and discussion to be destroyed by as you put it, "flames". As you mentioned, a lot of it has to do with the medium. Text isnt good for displaying emotion, and this type of forum makes it easy to disassociate a poster from a person. I've been using the internet since the early 90s (prior to web browsers), and its one of the worst aspects of it.
My only suggestion before replying to a post, and im guilty of it too, is to take a moment, and be willing to edit or delete comments if they seem too snarky. Again, my personal opinion, and not directed at you directly Nikmal. (we're probably getting horribly offtopic).
Flaming generally serves little purpose and makes a possible useful debate devolve into defensiveness.
I do agree that the software is going to be complicated, and I also agree that RW has done an amazing job at keeping it relatively intuitive.
I also believe that the real problem with this thread is that the OP didn't cite any real specific complaints. Its the difference between criticism, and constructive criticism.
Still, I live by the adage, "the customer is always right".
But where you and I fundamentally disagree, is that a poster should ever expect "heat". Its something that has become commonplace in the internet, but is not a good quality of it. Its a fundamentally bad quality, in my opinion. It causes discourse and discussion to be destroyed by as you put it, "flames". As you mentioned, a lot of it has to do with the medium. Text isnt good for displaying emotion, and this type of forum makes it easy to disassociate a poster from a person. I've been using the internet since the early 90s (prior to web browsers), and its one of the worst aspects of it.
My only suggestion before replying to a post, and im guilty of it too, is to take a moment, and be willing to edit or delete comments if they seem too snarky. Again, my personal opinion, and not directed at you directly Nikmal. (we're probably getting horribly offtopic).
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timjthomas
Member
RW is an interesting product. It essentially tries to be two products at once: a tool to help organize and develop a campaign for the GM and a tool to disseminate information to players.
I believe it does the first fairly well. There are some rough edges and there is a fairly significant learning curve, but the bits and pieces are there. I view RW as a toolbox with lots and lots of tools. However, it isn't something that you can simply jump into and easily master.
In it's second use, I believe RW is at its weakest. The tool is not very polished visually -- it doesn't look like a campaign guide book (as the original poster implies). It looks like a Windows database tool.
Just my opinion -- for what it may be worth. I am an Alpha Wolf backer and may use the tool to develop a campaign, but have no plans to use it to reveal information to players.
I believe it does the first fairly well. There are some rough edges and there is a fairly significant learning curve, but the bits and pieces are there. I view RW as a toolbox with lots and lots of tools. However, it isn't something that you can simply jump into and easily master.
In it's second use, I believe RW is at its weakest. The tool is not very polished visually -- it doesn't look like a campaign guide book (as the original poster implies). It looks like a Windows database tool.
Just my opinion -- for what it may be worth. I am an Alpha Wolf backer and may use the tool to develop a campaign, but have no plans to use it to reveal information to players.
That may change with the player access version, or the player web version, but I do have to agree with timjthomas on that. Right now, its a GREAT database tool. Its very good for campaign management. I'm not sure if its a great player tool, yet.
Its hard to say if it will change until we see the player only version, and after that (which is where my hope is lying) the web-site, if RealmsWorks will be able to live up to its promise of taking over when it comes to distributing campaign info to players.
Its hard to say if it will change until we see the player only version, and after that (which is where my hope is lying) the web-site, if RealmsWorks will be able to live up to its promise of taking over when it comes to distributing campaign info to players.
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Various thoughts came to mind while reading the OP and the thread.
First, as pointed out by others, to the OP: It's hard to help, if that's what you want, without some concrete examples. I THINK that what you're wanting is to have the ability to construct and save your own tables and then have it create new topics based on the result. I suppose it's possible but honestly, there are so many permutations, it sort of boggles the mind. There's a feature request board here, you could put a detailed request/proposal over there and the rest of the user base can weigh in on it. That way, LWD can look at it with all the other requests and create a development roadmap.
Second, random generators. Everyone GMs differently and everyone creates differently, you really can't argue that fact. Some people never use generators, some use them frequently. I'm sort of in the middle, as I suspect many of us are. I often use them for names of people and places as well as defeating writer's block. Like the OP seems to do, I have used a full town-creating generator in the past. It gave me names, professions and other things. However, I chose not to completely flesh out my towns with that information because it isn't how I game. I have kept much of that information still available to me, however, as I use it when I need to add a bit more depth to the community in question. The OP, however, seems to use that level of detail in his game, which I can respect.
Perhaps rather than incorporating a random generator, a compromise which would be helpful to more people would be to create a bulk importer. This has been asked about before in the early access and backer discussions but I think that was more on a realm level. If there were a couple specific importers (places, people) along with a global 'rescan for links' option, that might help the OP by allowing him to take output from an RG, format and input en masse.
Lastly, Realm Works is a very powerful product. It is designed to be very broad, configurable and useful to many people doing different things. I does not, in fact CAN not, be everything to everybody 'as is', at least not until we get into neural interfaces which would be both cool and terrifying.
If you're a gamer on social media, you've probably seen that meme with Boromir with various permutations of 'One does not simply....'. Well, here's another version: 'One does not simply open Realm Works and have it instantly do everything you want.'
Rob is working on a Best Practices guide. We all have our own experiences and advice. I've read through the forums, and as a result I've made various adjustments to my setup based on others' advice. Those adjustments aren't necessarily exactly 'as stated' but 'as applies to me'. Some other adjustments are tangential. For example, after I'd adjusted some tags I realized I could adjust 'Character Roles' to be more like I use them, which is a combination from Gary Gygax' Insidae and some other sources.
The OP needs to look at this again, read the documentation and forums, and simply play with it. There's something in here for everyone. Is it enough to make the OP happy? I hope so, but nothing in life is guaranteed.
First, as pointed out by others, to the OP: It's hard to help, if that's what you want, without some concrete examples. I THINK that what you're wanting is to have the ability to construct and save your own tables and then have it create new topics based on the result. I suppose it's possible but honestly, there are so many permutations, it sort of boggles the mind. There's a feature request board here, you could put a detailed request/proposal over there and the rest of the user base can weigh in on it. That way, LWD can look at it with all the other requests and create a development roadmap.
Second, random generators. Everyone GMs differently and everyone creates differently, you really can't argue that fact. Some people never use generators, some use them frequently. I'm sort of in the middle, as I suspect many of us are. I often use them for names of people and places as well as defeating writer's block. Like the OP seems to do, I have used a full town-creating generator in the past. It gave me names, professions and other things. However, I chose not to completely flesh out my towns with that information because it isn't how I game. I have kept much of that information still available to me, however, as I use it when I need to add a bit more depth to the community in question. The OP, however, seems to use that level of detail in his game, which I can respect.
Perhaps rather than incorporating a random generator, a compromise which would be helpful to more people would be to create a bulk importer. This has been asked about before in the early access and backer discussions but I think that was more on a realm level. If there were a couple specific importers (places, people) along with a global 'rescan for links' option, that might help the OP by allowing him to take output from an RG, format and input en masse.
Lastly, Realm Works is a very powerful product. It is designed to be very broad, configurable and useful to many people doing different things. I does not, in fact CAN not, be everything to everybody 'as is', at least not until we get into neural interfaces which would be both cool and terrifying.
If you're a gamer on social media, you've probably seen that meme with Boromir with various permutations of 'One does not simply....'. Well, here's another version: 'One does not simply open Realm Works and have it instantly do everything you want.'Rob is working on a Best Practices guide. We all have our own experiences and advice. I've read through the forums, and as a result I've made various adjustments to my setup based on others' advice. Those adjustments aren't necessarily exactly 'as stated' but 'as applies to me'. Some other adjustments are tangential. For example, after I'd adjusted some tags I realized I could adjust 'Character Roles' to be more like I use them, which is a combination from Gary Gygax' Insidae and some other sources.
The OP needs to look at this again, read the documentation and forums, and simply play with it. There's something in here for everyone. Is it enough to make the OP happy? I hope so, but nothing in life is guaranteed.
+1
I had about three attempts before I settled on MY way and I still tweaking it as i learn what others are doing.
Original poster in this thread seems to be throwing a paddy....
Mystic Lemur
Well-known member
I don't know who you are or where you live, but know that I hate you*. I hate you with the kind of hate that is normally reserved for pedophiles and people who torture animals*. I work in a retail pharmacy, and I can tell you with some authority that the customer is often wrong, and occasionally dangerously so. The customer is also hardheaded and stubborn and would rather use the product wrong that to have someone tell them the right way to use it. And then when the product doesn't work exactly like they think it should (regardless of what it's actually meant to do) it's somehow your fault for not telling them otherwise. The same customer, remember, who gets mad when you try to "waste their time" telling them about the product and how it should and shouldn't be used.
That is what I see in this thread. A customer who bought a product expecting it to do things it wasn't designed to, and refusing to use the documentation (which is part of the product he paid for) and the advice/suggestion of forum users (which he got for free) to learn what it actually can do. I'm sure if random generators are that important to him, he can find a way to incorporate them into RW, but not without first reading the documentation and learning how to insert objects.
*I don't have anything against you personally, but that mentality has made it terribly difficult to interact with some customers. Even if they're using a product in a way that could kill them, they assume they're right and I'm just being "rude" by telling them otherwise.
Agree x 10 I was just trying to be nice about it in my post and offer suggestions as well.
MaxSupernova
Well-known member
I'd be on that kickstarter like white on rice.