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Hello, Everyone! Working on a Ravenloft Game

C

candidgamera

Well-known member
Hello, to the forumites here at Lone Wolf. I had a question, so I figured I'd sign up and ask.

I am working on a Ravenloft campaign that I plan to start in a couple of months, and I am loading up a custom .user file (and trying to teach myself how this stuff works along the way). I'm starting with simple things, like languages and deities from the Ravenloft setting.

I noticed an oddity, though, while tinkering with the house rules. My default character in my initial portfolio is a Human Expert 1. I have turned off the Inner Sea World Guide in the rules options so it doesn't force me to choose an ethnicity for him. I have also turned on the No Common Language rule to emulate the Domains of Dread. The problem is, my 1st level human peasant with an intelligence of 10 has no languages at all now!

I have reported this as a bug to the development guys - the No Common Language house rule should allow one to pick an alternate, but I have to figure that someone ran into this before - what are good workarounds?

I know I can add a permanent adjustment to every PC and NPC to give them an extra language. I may also be able to use templates or subtypes to create fake ethnicities (e.g., 'Barovian'), to bestow appropriate languages. But both of those seem like a headache. Any thoughts?
 
Okay, this is weird - reloading the portfolio seems to give me the correct blank language slot. So the bug isn't that the 'no common language' option works improperly, it's that the character doesn't seem to update correctly. Indeed, when I reloaded and saw '1 starting language' to select, then selected that one language, the interface then told me I was one over my allotment!
 
My understanding of the "No Common Language" option was more that it just removed the language, rather than giving you a slot back, as there are times when characters knowing Common isn't appropriate - for example in at least one AP that spends time in more far-flung nations the populace doesn't get it automatically, and only get their racial language available.

If you have a different language you'd like to replace it with as the "generic" language, it's quite easy to auto-replace it through the editor. If you want to leave it so that it only does it for that campaign (if you use HL for other campaigns), it's not terribly difficult to set it up to only replace for that game.
 
Portillis is correct - the "No Common Language" option is not supposed to give you a slot back.

I would go the Ethnicities route. That way, you can use the normal Human race, and then assign the Barovian ethnicity in order to add the correct language.
 
It seems to be in an odd state - sometimes it recognizes that the character has a single language slot, and sometimes it doesn't. But every intelligent creature in Pathfinder speaks its native language (and usually Common, if available) for free. Even ignoring the rules, common sense tells us that an Intelligence 10 Human in any kind of society is going to speak a language, if only to communicate with his or her neighbors.

Removing the Common Language should automatically trip something in the code for Humans to have an option to define their native language, otherwise the 'No Common Language' rule makes all humans mute until they hit Int 12 or put ranks in Linguistics. That simply doesn't make sense. (Edit to Add : Can you find one GM anywhere who runs his or her game like that? With no common language, and humans unable to communicate with each other unless they have 12+ Intelligence or Linguistics skill?)

Honestly, my preferred implementation would be an arrangement that lets the GM assign multiple free languages to a character as their 'starting' or native languages. Sort of like the Mutants and Masterminds Hero Lab implementation, where it's an open-form text field and you can put in several languages, separated by commas, at no additional charge to the character, if appropriate.

Portillis : To address the generic language point specifically, I have no idea how to do that, yet, as I'm just fumbling with the editor now. :) That said, Ravenloft has no generic language.

Mathias : Until the bug is fixed, then, how would you recommend modelling ethnicities - as a subtype, a template, or something I've missed in the editor?
 
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The purpose of "no common language" is so that when you're creating your own world, and it's a world that doesn't use a common language, you don't need to create replacement races for every single race in order to remove common from all of them - the only races you need to modify are those that gain a new language in this world. By using "No Common Language", you automatically remove Common from the Elves, Dwarves, etc., which drasticly cuts down on the number of races you need to modify.

You'll find the existing ethnicities on the Racial Cust Specials tab.
 
Mathias said:
The purpose of "no common language" is so that when you're creating your own world, and it's a world that doesn't use a common language, you don't need to create replacement races for every single race in order to remove common from all of them - the only races you need to modify are those that gain a new language in this world. By using "No Common Language", you automatically remove Common from the Elves, Dwarves, etc., which drasticly cuts down on the number of races you need to modify.

You'll find the existing ethnicities on the Racial Cust Specials tab.
Click to expand...

I understand your point of view, but as convenient as it is for the non-human races, the humans get hosed. If Hero Lab's purpose is to implement the house rule the way people actually use it, then it should replace Common, for humans, with another language slot. Otherwise, assuming they have humans in the campaign, it takes more work to use it than to just ignore the 'Common' appearing on people's character sheets.
 
AndrewD2 said:
You could always just add the starting language adjustment, no editor needed. Takes 10 seconds.
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Or with the editor create a Mechanic that is attached to your House Rules source. And have it run the same script as the adjustment for when a Human is selected for the hero.

Just mentioning another way that is more automatic. :)
 
ShadowChemosh said:
Or with the editor create a Mechanic that is attached to your House Rules source. And have it run the same script as the adjustment for when a Human is selected for the hero.

Just mentioning another way that is more automatic. :)
Click to expand...

That's a great suggestion, but I don't know how to do that yet. I will file it away, though! I'm sure there's a good tutorial for this stuff out there somewhere, but right now I'm just hacking away at the simple things.

AndrewD2 : The starting language adjustment does take about ten or fifteen seconds, per character - I could have hundreds of NPCs that are affected.
 
Hmm. Ethnicities only work for humans, so I can't distinguish between Darkonian and Sithican Elves that way.. but I suppose I could copy the Elf race and make a Sithican variant race and change the default language.

What resources have you folks found to be the best for learning how to do custom content?
 
candidgamera said:
Hmm. Ethnicities only work for humans, so I can't distinguish between Darkonian and Sithican Elves that way.. but I suppose I could copy the Elf race and make a Sithican variant race and change the default language.

What resources have you folks found to be the best for learning how to do custom content?
Click to expand...

Trial and error.
Existing examples in the data files, exuberant use of the copy button in the editor.
And of course the tutorials in the help files, the links to the videos and the D20PFsrd website in my signature. Also asking questions on these forums!

:)
 
Ethnicities do can exist for other races, I know there's one for Elves if you have the People of the North source enabled.
 
AndrewD2 said:
Ethnicities do can exist for other races, I know there's one for Elves if you have the People of the North source enabled.
Click to expand...

I would probably have to purchase and enable that source, I'm guessing; else there's some deeper magic to it that I don't know yet. It's not a big deal at the moment; I don't expect a lot of Sithican Elves.

bodrin : Thanks! I'm looking over some stuff now.
 
candidgamera said:
I would probably have to purchase and enable that source, I'm guessing; else there's some deeper magic to it that I don't know yet. It's not a big deal at the moment; I don't expect a lot of Sithican Elves.
Click to expand...
You don't need the package at all. You just have to increase the number of Racial Custom abilities allowed.

My best advice is search this forum for help. LOTS of the same questions already answered. For example HERE is a post where I answer the question and even give a script example regarding Ethnicities for races. :)
 
ShadowChemosh said:
You don't need the package at all. You just have to increase the number of Racial Custom abilities allowed.

My best advice is search this forum for help. LOTS of the same questions already answered. For example HERE is a post where I answer the question and even give a script example regarding Ethnicities for races. :)
Click to expand...

Awesome. I am making myself a list of bookmarks for reference - I appreciate the assistance. And I've downloaded several of the packages you've put together for later use as well - though I haven't found a master list of what's in your Adjustments file yet.

Maybe if I can whip this Ravenloft file into shape I can post it for other folks to use.
 
candidgamera said:
though I haven't found a master list of what's in your Adjustments file yet.
Click to expand...
Its HERE. I do have to work on that list because I keep having to shorten it as the post exceeds the 10,000 character limit. Need to turn it into a PDF or something. :)

candidgamera said:
Maybe if I can whip this Ravenloft file into shape I can post it for other folks to use.
Click to expand...
I am sure many would find that very useful. I am pretty sure I have seen Ravenloft requests over the years. :) Feel free to send me a PM later when ready to share and we can see about putting it on the community server.
 
Disappointingly, the Lone Wolf team has deemed the 'No Common Language' rule to be working as designed, even if it does lead to the nonsensical result of a mass of mute human commoners; I certainly won't be going to the lengths I have for Ravenloft for any future games I run using that house rule, but I can run them without Hero Lab easily enough.

Speaking of Ravenloft, I've finished the core languages and religions; and coded the human ethnicities to work around the language problem. On to the Mist Domain next..
 
Question! What sort of element would the 'No Common Language' house rule appear under in the editor, if any? I could just clone it and write my own fixed version that gives humans a language slot, but I'm not sure what kind of object it would be. I am concerned it may be one that the editor does not yet allow for. Thanks in advance!
 
Do you want all races to get a replacement slot for losing common, or only humans to get the replacement slot?
 
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