PFRPG Editor Questions - Custom GUMSHOE Add-on

[kurtomatic]

Howdy All,

I'm looking at taking a deep-dive into the PF editor, but before I leave the kiddy-end of the pool, I'd like a reality check and any guidance the experienced modders care to offer. I'm a software engineer by trade, so I hope to not need too much hand-holding. I am concerned about wild goose chasing and rabbit trails, however, so I've got my n00b hat in hand and I appreciate any warnings or tips provided.

My project is adding investigation house-rules derived from the GUMSHOE system by Pelgrane Press. Now Pelgrane has published a PFRPG GUMSHOE hybrid product called Lorefinder. While I have this book, I am intending to take a slightly different tack. Lorefinder replaces the PF skill system with a new bolt-on replacement, which requires touching a wide gamut of game elements. I prefer to take a mostly additive, first-do-no-harm approach that should reduce the complexity of a custom HL implementation.

What I intend is a new collection of character abilities that resemble skills, but are separate from the skill system, and managed separately in their own tab. It is my impression from wading in the shallow-end that creating a new 'tab' in the PF editor is not really possible, aside from the work-around of creating a new class and adding a level of that class to a hero. I'm guessing this based on my (favorable) experience using SC's Mythic playtest add-on, which clearly a bit of a (clever) hack, but also very functional, and the model I'm currently looking to follow.

So with that out of the way, should it be possible to script a custom class that is automatically added to the bottom of the character level stack when a new character is created with my 'PFRPG Investigator' source selected, and then hidden to prevent additional levels being added? Additionally or alternatively, could such a class be automatically added once to the bottom of the character level stack at any time, and then hidden from the user to prevent additional levels being added?

Thanks heaps!

 

[Mathias]

Please talk more about what you're trying to accomplish, not about your idea for how to accomplish this. We can't help you figure out the best way to accomplish this without knowing more about how the investigation rules function.

 

[Aaron]

I would not create a class for this. First I would create a mechanic (which are added to all heroes), and then I would create a configurable that could be bootstrapped to that mechanic. Configurables each create their own tabs, and have various tables which you can use. Create these character abilities and then associate them to the configurable you made, then let the user add them as necessary.

 

[kurtomatic]

Thank you for a proper requirements spanking.

I was feeling a manic-moment coming on, and I wasn't sure if I should bore you with my use-cases, or go straight for a technical question. Now that's been corrected...

USE CASE:
User selects a custom source for PFRPG that represents a quasi-GUMSHOE style investigation campaign (placeholder name: Fantasy Investigation). All heroes created for this campaign share certain features implemented by the campaign source. These include...

1. A number of free text/picklist labels which describe the heroes' investigation background, faction, enemies, etc. These are simple campaign-specific text properties. Some of these properties are single values, while others may be collections (contacts, etc.)
   
2. A new collection of named skill-like abilities (placeholder name: Investigation Abilities) selected from a larger list of available abilities. These abilities will display a name and a number. In play, these abilities act as point pools; each ability is simply a tracked resource and no die rolls, modifiers, or target numbers apply.
   
3. The user will be provided with a number of ability points to assign to the selected abilities, which will increment their numeric value. Unselected abilities will not appear on the hero.
   
4. These investigation abilities may additionally require further categorization/tagging; some bonus ability points may conditionally be awarded to the hero to spend on specific sub-groups of abilities.
   
5. Investigation ability points will be awarded at 1st-level, however, character level advancement will provide additional points for further ability selections or increases.
   
6. Ideally, these campaign-specific elements will be managed by the user in a specific HL tab (placeholder name: Investigator). Break these elements out into a new section (of the same name) in the heroes' stat block output for a delicious desert topping.
   
   Additionally...
   
   
7. Some modification of the PFRPG skill set may be required. A number of PFRPG skills may be impacted, either by renaming, simple removal, or a mapped removal where incoming bonuses (from feats, class features, etc.) are routed and/or transformed to a different game element.
   
8. Besides skills, there may be other interactions with the new abilities from spells and the like, but at this time I expect these to be resolved in play, rather than chargen. Exceptions to this may occur.
   
9. Some of the investigation ability points granted to the hero may be driven by core game element selections, such as (again) skill ranks, feats, domains, etc. (See items 4 and 7.)

Most of these items appear to be low risk, but a few are unclear to me, and even with the easy ones there will be sub-optimal solutions to avoid.

Thanks very much for your time and consideration. All feedback is welcome.

 

[kurtomatic]

A hypothetical stat block section with placeholder values:

--------------------
Investigator
--------------------
Background Analyst, Cleaner
Formerly of Mages' Guild
Enemy of Secret Society, Underworld Gang
Known to Thieves' Guild, Noble House, Church Police
Abilities Bureaucracy 3, Cipher 2, Criminology 2, Divination 2, Research 1, Occult Studies 3, Urban Survival 1
Contacts Archmage, Watch Captain, Mages' Guild Enforcer, Thieves' Guild Enforcer, Parish Priest, Freelance Smuggler

..where each ability represents a numerically tracked resource that is spent and recovered during play.

 

[Mathias]

Simple version: purchase the ultimate campaign package, and use the contacts, reputations, and relationships rules added there to manage most of that. You may want to use the editor to add particular contacts/reputations/relationships that are specific to this setting.

The abilities can be handled in a simple fashion by adding the "Counter" adjustment, and setting that to the value of the ability, if they're just something that the user marks off as they use them up.

 

[kurtomatic]

Thanks for the replies!

I had already noticed the contacts implementation for PFS, but Ultimate Campaign is even better. I already have Campaign and the official Mythic datasets on my wishlist, so now I'm really looking forward to that.

So I looked at several of the config editors for PF (mechanics, configurables, adjustments, etc.) and I skimmed the auth kit wiki as well, even though it only tangentially applies to the PF editor. These editors all seem to make sense individually, and the bootstrapping notion defined in the wiki is understandable. The tricky bits are the logical constructions assembled from these idioms, and how to get a working prototype started (bootstrapping, indeed).

The abilities can be handled in a simple fashion by adding the "Counter" adjustment, and setting that to the value of the ability, if they're just something that the user marks off as they use them up.

So to be real specific, what kind of thing should I add the Counter adjustment to? I have a collection of 30-odd ability-things I need to define for a user picklist, and each of these things needs a uniform set behaviors bound to them. I need to choose some type of root node from the available editors, and then I can bind things like counter adjustments and the like through bootstrapping; is that right? Is there an example of this I should look at?

Thanks muchly!

 

[Mathias]

These abilities you want to add are simply a number of uses that the character can get out of each one, right? So all you're really storing is the uses left. So, just have the user add a copy of Counter themselves, and then change the "Source" to be the name of this ability. That's a quick and dirty way to record that, with no editor work required.

 

[kurtomatic]

Okay.., so Adjust tab > Other Adjustments > Add a new adjustment > Counter, and then tick up the modifier, fill in the source, and ignore the duration.

That's a useful thing to know, and I appreciate the suggestion. It's not a satisfactory implementation for my needs, but thanks all the same. I honestly did not expect this much attention from the LWD devs, and if the best short answer is to not use the editor, then I'll take that over no answer at all.

Thanks!

 

[Mathias]

That's just the simple option for handling those - you'll need to give me more detail on how these abilities work before I can figure out the best way to properly handle them.

 

[kurtomatic]

Thanks. Let me describe GUMSHOE investigator abilities using an idiom that largely parallels Pathfinder skill system (up to a point).

In Pathfinder, heroes are granted some number of skill points which are used to buy ranks in a subset of skills from a skill catalog.

In GUMSHOE, heroes are granted some number of build points which are used to buy ratings in a subset of abilities from an ability catalog.

While the particulars of how these points are awarded and spent differ, the general chargen patterns are similar. The official publisher's PFRPG/GS mashup simply replaces the PF skills in toto with the GS ability system, which involves a lot of class and feat rewiring, plus player retraining. I would like to simply graft a portion of the GS system (the 'investigation abilities') onto PFRPG as a parallel, supplementary hero feature. Thus the request for a new tab to isolate the investigation-oriented picks in their own distinct interface.

Speaking of which, I just got my Investigator configurable bootstrapped to my Fantasy Investigator mechanic, both linked to my User Content > Fantasy Investigation source; voilà.., one working Investigator tab.

In-game, the investigator abilities resemble (I think ) Trackers with a usage period of /adventure. They are point pools which are drained over the course of play, and periodically refreshed back to maximum.

 

[kurtomatic]

Any suggestions on what type of thing I should use to add a new catalog of trackable abilities (frex, Ability, Tracker, etc.)? Is there an example of how to tag such as list of things for a modal selection dialog/helper?

Thanks!