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Ultimate Campaign ... any ETA ?

B

BusterBluth

Active member
I bought the package for this about 2 months ago, but I still haven't heard when it's going to be finished. At some point, I thought it would support the kingdom building rules. Can someone from Wolflair tell us when to expect this?

When it finally does, will it support building and fighting with armies in PF?
 
While working on this book, they ran into some problems with editor space. I believe they're still trying to figure out a work around on that issue. Armies should already have support in place if I am not mistaken, and you should already be able to build an army from the configuration screen.
 
It looks like all you can do is build an army, but you can't have an army attack another that's in the same POR file. I was hoping for some kind of adjudication of combat, but this will essentially be just for tracking changes to armies from the look of it.

It's also odd to see so many tabs that aren't relevant to an army, like Skills and Feats.
 
Well, sorry the tactical console doesn't handle armies all that well. As for the tabs, Feats could be relevant in some cases by granting you army abilities (Brew potion is the first to come to mind). For the skills tab and some of the other quirks, there was quite a conflict within the team on how to handle armies. The final result was a compromise which left no-one happy.

Always glad to hear feedback on how to improve it, of course.
 
Thanks for getting back to me. Is there any kind of ETA on when the software will be able to handle the kingdom building rules?
 
I'm not sure. Mathias is working on that project, so I'll have to ask him tomorrow when we're both working.
 
Mathias said:
I do not currently have an estimate for you.
Click to expand...

I started building an Access dbase to do the kingdom & army stuff, but stopped working on it when I found out that you guys were going to implement the rules for UC in Herolab. Maybe I should start working on it again.

It'd be helpful to get an idea of the scope of what the package will finally look like, but you may not know at this point. Can you answer these questions or at least give me your best guess?

Will the final package adjudicate combat between armies or will it simply track changing army stats as it does now?

Will there be a graphical interface to handle placement of buildings within city districts or will that be handled more abstractly?

Will the army & kingdom rules be handled together? For example, armies have consumption which comes out a kingdom's treasury. Armies consume differently if they're garrisoned vs being out in the field. Their morale is also adversely affected if BPs aren't being spent on them. Will the package in its final form do this? Armies get defense bonuses depending on defensive structures built in a city. Will the package take this into account, depending on an army's current location?

Thanks so much for the info!
 
BusterBluth said:
Will the final package adjudicate combat between armies or will it simply track changing army stats as it does now?
Click to expand...

I would imagine that since HL is not a combat program, that they would not change what the program itself is for that.

BusterBluth said:
Will there be a graphical interface to handle placement of buildings within city districts or will that be handled more abstractly?
Click to expand...

HL is not a graphical program. While you can load a picture, you cannot create one in HL.

BusterBluth said:
Will the army & kingdom rules be handled together? For example, armies have consumption which comes out a kingdom's treasury. Armies consume differently if they're garrisoned vs being out in the field. Their morale is also adversely affected if BPs aren't being spent on them. Will the package in its final form do this? Armies get defense bonuses depending on defensive structures built in a city. Will the package take this into account, depending on an army's current location
Click to expand...

As far as consumption rules, the user should be able to track that. The same as you track the rations on your character. HL does not consume things automatically without the user telling it to remove something. IT also doesn't know where your character is at in the game world.

With the morale and defense bonuses etc, those would just be adjustments that could probably be added. Not sure if they are doing those yet or not.

It seems that the questions you had are wanting the program to do a LOT more than what it was built for. All the things you are asking about combined would be more a computer game than a character creation software.
 
I was a bit confused with this as well. HL is a character builder not a kingdom builder. So I'm not sure a lot of the rules would even be applicable to HL.

Mind you I would love to see a kingdom generator. Something where you put in paramets and can watch it grow over time. maybe even have a map br automatically created as it grows as well.
 
chiefweasel,

You should check out the work done in Shadowrun. They can handle kingdom creation in Hero Lab. We have vehicle creation and creation for many things in there. Hero Lab handles it all quite well. Based on the work done in that area, the kingdom building isn't much different, and its a big component from Ult. Camp. Not something I'd expect done quickly.
 
SeeleyOne said:
I think that a kingdom generator might be better fit for Realm Works.
Click to expand...

Considering that the kingdom generation that they're talking about is player controlled, and is essentially a kingdom "character" for a player (or group of players) to manage, I couldn't disagree with you more.

Realm Works would be better served integrating things like the settlement rules and such from the GameMastery Guide, as that is campaign setting stuff, instead of a character by a different name.
 
I guess my issue is this: how would more than one player manipulate the data? How could a group of players alter the details of their kingdom?

I think that the best way would be to have the kingdom be a "character" that is accessible to all of the players involved. Aside from emailing it with the changes to everyone, I do not see a way to do this in a gaming group. At least with Realm Works there is already a sort of cloud service in use, and a particular kingdom would be linked to a specific realm.

That is why I recommended Realm Works versus Hero Lab for this situation.
 
When playing a kingdom with pen and paper, you'll most likely designate a single record keeper to write all the details about the kingdom down. That stays the same - the record keeper will simply be recording things in Hero Lab, rather than on paper.
 
Mathias said:
When playing a kingdom with pen and paper, you'll most likely designate a single record keeper to write all the details about the kingdom down. That stays the same - the record keeper will simply be recording things in Hero Lab, rather than on paper.
Click to expand...
Yep the same as when playing through Jade Reagent AP and one person would keep the records for the Caravan. Same idea here. Besides I would be shocked to find more than one person that gets any fun out of "record" keeping to be in a group. ;)
 
So, just to throw out a bone to the developers, I am finishing up an excel sheet to handle kingdoms. I'm about 80% through it and it is a BITCH. So I feel their pain. There is a lot of data entry and a HUGE amount of dependencies. I'm seeing IF statements in my sleep.
 
Being a fellow Excel-wielder, I can totally understand. Excel can do more than most people give it credit for. Sometimes VLOOKUP and HLOOKUPs are better than using a ton of IF statements.

I might have some other ideas that could help you. One thing to keep in mind is this: you are the creator, not the user. Other people will mess with it in ways that will baffle you. I learned the hard way to make it obvious where and how the user will enter or modify the data. I have also learned to "stupid proof" it, which is best done by hiding rows and then hiding the row and column headers.

Now that I have delved more deeply into the realm of actual programming my Excel days might be over. So far the only languages that I can program in are Java and C++.
 
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