cryptoknight
Well-known member
Why not just use Unity? It's supposed to allow for multi-platform development.
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- The Lone Wolf Development Team
Tablet Wars II: Attack of Android 3.0
- Thread starter FifthWanderer
- Start date
crowofpyke
Active member
I also cast my vote for Android. Many tablets (and readers) use Android now and they are far less expensive than an iPad. In addition to larger Android tablets which are popular, such as the Transformer HD, there are many smaller tablet readers out there which could handle this, such as the Google Nexus 7 and the Nook.
I played a lot of Shadowrun at GenCon this year, and I kept wishing that Hero Lab was being supported for Android tablets. Count me in for an additional license if and when Hero Lab comes to Android tablets!!
I played a lot of Shadowrun at GenCon this year, and I kept wishing that Hero Lab was being supported for Android tablets. Count me in for an additional license if and when Hero Lab comes to Android tablets!!
We looked at Unity. You'll find the answer to this question in our original tablet announcement.
You'll find it in our July newsletter, which can be found at:
http://www.wolflair.com/index.php?context=newsletter&page=july_2012
I see that there is already a discussion on this, and glad to see that there are efforts towards providing Hero Lab on the iPad (great start, by the way!).
Due to recent events, specifically Google recent huge ad campaign for its Nexus 7, I have found myself in the possession of a "STANDARDIZED" android device! (can't get much better than directly from the horses' mouth!)
As such my priorities are obviously now biased, and I think it might be very interesting to see how people (like me) vote with their money on Kickstarter! (yes, i totally went there, LOL)
Would the guys at Wolf Lair like to have some fun with a Kickstarter project for developing an Android version of Hero Lab?
Android users unite!
Due to recent events, specifically Google recent huge ad campaign for its Nexus 7, I have found myself in the possession of a "STANDARDIZED" android device! (can't get much better than directly from the horses' mouth!)
As such my priorities are obviously now biased, and I think it might be very interesting to see how people (like me) vote with their money on Kickstarter!
(yes, i totally went there, LOL)Would the guys at Wolf Lair like to have some fun with a Kickstarter project for developing an Android version of Hero Lab?
Android users unite!
For those who choose Android and will have to wait another year or two for official Android versions, I've found an acceptable work around, SplashTop!
It's just another remote desktop app but after trying a few, this one works REALLY well. If you pay the 10$, you can access over the cloud without knowing IP addresses or anything, really simple.
Sure, HL isn't tablet friendly so scrolling and pressing buttons is not always 100% on my Xoom, it looks decent enough. I've even moved to using it at the table in place of my character sheet now It's a pain to adjust HP but having all the other info at my finger tips is really nice.
I think what Rob needs to concentrate on is not a full port, but just an "interactive" sheet. That's how I want to use my tablet, as a character sheet that tracks spells, gives me info, etc. And have that info "sync" when I update if via Hero Labs.
To the Cloud everyone!
It's just another remote desktop app but after trying a few, this one works REALLY well. If you pay the 10$, you can access over the cloud without knowing IP addresses or anything, really simple.
Sure, HL isn't tablet friendly so scrolling and pressing buttons is not always 100% on my Xoom, it looks decent enough. I've even moved to using it at the table in place of my character sheet now
It's a pain to adjust HP but having all the other info at my finger tips is really nice.I think what Rob needs to concentrate on is not a full port, but just an "interactive" sheet. That's how I want to use my tablet, as a character sheet that tracks spells, gives me info, etc. And have that info "sync" when I update if via Hero Labs.
To the Cloud everyone!
DaveWolfgang
New member
It's great to hear that you are planning on working on an Android based HL in the future (being an owner of a ASUS Transformer).
Currently my group uses laptops while gaming, but having the availability on a tablet will really open up space on the table top and/or reduce the need for TV trays off to the side.
Currently my group uses laptops while gaming, but having the availability on a tablet will really open up space on the table top and/or reduce the need for TV trays off to the side.
Actually I believe this, right here, is what hurts Android development more than any other feature. You're absolutely right that Androids are much more configurable, less locked down and much more highly accessible than iOS Devices. The ability to get in and do what you want with them (without jailbreaking a device) is what draws MANY people to the Android.
And it's exaclty what should/would drive developers AWAY from it. The fact is that CONTROL and STATIC HARDWARE is what makes development efforts easy. If you know exactly what your target hardware can do, exactly what it will be, and that 90%+ of your users will be using the same OS that is locked to the point where a user can't/hasn't screwed it up, you have a stable platform to develop on...one that isn't likely to get a phone call or e-mail support question that will eventually resolve itself to "You did WHAT to your device?" after hours of technical diagnosis.
The other point that was brought up that rings true is the link between iOS and Mac OS X development: While they OS's are vastly different, there are similarities that allow developers to piggy back iOS development on top of OS X development.
THere's NOTHING wrong with an Android, but given iOS Market Share (Just over 50% of the tablet market is owned by iOS as of a report today)...50% vs. it's closest competitor which holds only 18% of the market, iOS's device hardware and software control, and the fact that you can crutch on OS X development to assist your iOS development, along with the fact that developing an iOS app for an iPad also gets you most of the way there to developing for the iPhone if you care to...and iOS is still the place to be right now.
http://mashable.com/2012/11/05/apples-tablet-market-share-drops-to-50-4-percent-report/
i don't see a reason to choose either android or ios, another approach would be to add in a web based server that you can use remotely from a web browser via proxy from the server. so when i go to herlab/mypc it would redirect me to my personal computer and pull the web interface for the program.
going this route would also make it easier to add in suport for future devices if something better comes down the road that isnt ios/android or windows devices, as long as it has a browser built in it can access my herloab.
as an added bonus it would also store characters locally. and if i were playing a web based game through a virtual table top. we could have direct links to characters something like this (http:/herolab.com/mycomputer/mycharacter)
since this is ran by proxy the herolab web servers would not deal with much added bandwith, if that is an issue there is also dynamic ip programs that can be used that would negate the need to use a proxy through the herolab website.
just a suggestion.
going this route would also make it easier to add in suport for future devices if something better comes down the road that isnt ios/android or windows devices, as long as it has a browser built in it can access my herloab.
as an added bonus it would also store characters locally. and if i were playing a web based game through a virtual table top. we could have direct links to characters something like this (http:/herolab.com/mycomputer/mycharacter)
since this is ran by proxy the herolab web servers would not deal with much added bandwith, if that is an issue there is also dynamic ip programs that can be used that would negate the need to use a proxy through the herolab website.
just a suggestion.
There's one major flaw in this approach. It requires that every user always have internet access from the tablet in order to use the product. A lot of people who buy tablets don't pay for 4G service, since that would dramatically increase their costs. We want the tablet version to be usable *everywhere*, such as at local cons, game stores, etc. You don't get everywhere access if you require an internet connection.
Wait? There's places without internet? NOOO!
But in reality, that could be solved with cache options just like Google Docs and such. Depending on how much "work" was done client side vs server side.
But I have mixed feelings about html5 apps vs native apps. There are trade offs for sure.
But in reality, that could be solved with cache options just like Google Docs and such. Depending on how much "work" was done client side vs server side.
But I have mixed feelings about html5 apps vs native apps. There are trade offs for sure.
If we re-wrote the entire product from the ground up in a completely different programming language, including all the complexity of the back-end, *then* the work could be done on the client without an internet connection. But then we're talking about a release date in 2014 or 2015. So that's not a viable option.
Sure, everything can be solved with enough work. It's a question of cost - time, money, and opportunity.
However, your statement above makes it sound like we just aren't trying hard enough on this end by simply waving your hand and saying it could be solved. While *you* may understand the implications of what you're saying, the vast majority of our users - and readers of this thread - do *not* understand those implications. So your hand-wave is incredibly misleading to others.
Please be careful with what you say, since it can easily be interpreted incorrectly by those that simply take it at face value.
Rob, sorry, don't want to confuse anyone as I understand that indeed would be a major undertaking. In my simplistic view I keep confusing what I want "now" vs what you guys are trying to offer.
Right now, I'd be happy with a HeroLab Portvolio "Viewer" to show my character and run him during game with possibly a few "condition" modifier check boxes vs what you guys are working towards being HeroLabs running on a tablet.
On another front, I'm assuming HeroLab will run on Windows 8 (looking at the new Ultra hybrids), and probably will not run on Win 8 RT? Other than RT being an ARM processor, I have no idea what would be involved porting to RT. Is that on your road map?
Right now, I'd be happy with a HeroLab Portvolio "Viewer" to show my character and run him during game with possibly a few "condition" modifier check boxes vs what you guys are working towards being HeroLabs running on a tablet.
On another front, I'm assuming HeroLab will run on Windows 8 (looking at the new Ultra hybrids), and probably will not run on Win 8 RT? Other than RT being an ARM processor, I have no idea what would be involved porting to RT. Is that on your road map?
To properly support any condition modifiers at all, then entire engine is needed. The Mac port got us 80% of the way on that for the iPad.
Our initial tablet release will be a "smart viewer" along the lines you're asking for. We need to first get a framework in place to build the tablet application on top of, which is nearly complete. Then we can get all the initial functionality into place to provide a "smart viewer". After that, we can continue to flesh out the functionality to achieve the full Hero Lab product.
Yes, Hero Lab runs great on Windows 8. However, it will *not* work on the RT. Going from Windows to RT is like going from OSX to iOS - it's a complete departure.
Support for RT depends entirely on how it does in the marketplace. After we get the iPad version into place, we'll then assess whether to support Android or RT next, based on both the market and the ease of implementation.
As far as Windows 8 tablets, while HeroLab will not run on RT tablets, there are now tablets coming that run Windows 8 on a traditional intel processor on the tablet, which should mean the any desktop software should run on those tablets (barring obvious hardware demands - i.e. Crysis 2).
Hello!
I have to admit I do not understand this "we need to decide for one of them". The answer is "platform independent programming". I have been working for a company who was doing game conversions from Windows to "X" (where "X" was AmigaOS 4, AmigaOS Classic, Linux and MacOS). It was always quite easy if you went for developing some core libraries first (in this case a GUI Library, probably - might even go about just porting some existing OpenSource GUI Toolkit and then progressing from there). Some of my friends at my former company (if Hyperion Entertainment rings a bell to anyone?) even implemented complex things like Firefox (completely with UI Toolkit below it) to new platforms.
Of course if you do everything with the "native" UI then indeed you have to "choose one". But if you decide to plan the project from start in a platform independent way (first make some library toolkits for the os dependent stuff, then the actual application) you get a product for several OSes at once -> more money.
And it is not that I just set up claims. I have been working in this sort of business for several years myselves.
MagicSN
I have to admit I do not understand this "we need to decide for one of them". The answer is "platform independent programming". I have been working for a company who was doing game conversions from Windows to "X" (where "X" was AmigaOS 4, AmigaOS Classic, Linux and MacOS). It was always quite easy if you went for developing some core libraries first (in this case a GUI Library, probably - might even go about just porting some existing OpenSource GUI Toolkit and then progressing from there). Some of my friends at my former company (if Hyperion Entertainment rings a bell to anyone?) even implemented complex things like Firefox (completely with UI Toolkit below it) to new platforms.
Of course if you do everything with the "native" UI then indeed you have to "choose one". But if you decide to plan the project from start in a platform independent way (first make some library toolkits for the os dependent stuff, then the actual application) you get a product for several OSes at once -> more money.
And it is not that I just set up claims. I have been working in this sort of business for several years myselves.
MagicSN
Please read our official announcement regarding tablets. That's the first approach we researched. However, there were some major problems with battery life and the tools available. The good tools are designed for games and suck the battery quickly. We needed something that would "play nice" with the battery. We also needed a tool that would allow us to port across the entire Hero Lab engine without having to rewrite it, and that precluded some tools from being viable. There were other factors as well that all contributed to making an off-the-shelf, platform-independent toolset unworkable. So we were forced to "decide for one of them".
This was all covered in the official announcement, so I ask that you please read it before implying that we're incompetent. We did our homework on this. A platform independent solution would have been the ideal solution, but we couldn't find a viable way of doing that with the tools available at the time we got started.