What changes/enhancements would you like to see?

[CapedCrusader]

Greetings!
We are looking at making some changes to Hero Lab to better support Savage Worlds. So, I'm soliciting feedback on what folks think should be added or changed to allow Hero Lab to be able to be used for more of the Savage Worlds settings. A partial list of what we're looking at is:

1. The Fantasy Companion book
2. The Super Powers Companion book
3. Adding the capability to support a second Faction
4. Adding functionality to better support Derived Traits related to Rank
5. Updating it with the changes in Savage Worlds Deluxe

What we're looking for is feedback on what else Hero Lab could do in order to make it more useful for Savage Worlds players. What kinds of things would you like to see?

Ron
(CapedCrusader)

[Freefall]

I'd like a couple of campaign options that you can set, such as increasing the number of starting Edges and the option to override/ignore Background Edges restrictions so that they can be taken after character creation. From a quick glance at the Savage Worlds Deluxe edition it looks like the restriction on Background Edges has been lifted so my second request may be moot if you're going to support the Deluxe edition.

Regards,

Freefall

[bugleyman]

For my part, it looks like you're nailing the two things I would most like to see:
1. Support for Savage Worlds Deluxe
2. Ability to purchase the Fantasy Companion

Given how vital new edges are in customizing a setting, you will want to ensure that doing so is as easy as possible (I have no idea how hard it is now; haven't tried).

Is SWD going to "replace" EE, or will there be a toggle?

[dartnet]

Update the Languages to make them more user friendly.

[CapedCrusader]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by more user-friendly. Could you be more specific?

[dartnet]

HL needs the ability to adjust the number of language slots a PC gets.
Pulse it would be great to be able to add user defined Languages.
For example for a fantasy game I have Common, Orc, and Zoolander as languages. It would be great to be able to select those languages with out having to type them every time.

[CapedCrusader]

As far as modifying the number of languages a character gets, there's an Edge in Hellfrost called Linguist that allows someone to have their Smarts in languages rather than half Smarts. I can show you how to code an Edge that will allow you to modify the number of Languages a player gets now, and you can create an Edge that you can give to either a single hero or the entire party for free. The code in the Eval Script looks like this to add a single language:

#resmax[resLang] = #trait[attrSma] + 1
#resleft[resLang] = #trait[attrSma] + 1

To add more, just change the number being added in both equations. To make it Smarts instead of half Smarts, use this:

#resmax[resLang] += #trait[attrSma]
#resleft[resLang] += #trait[attrSma]

The timing on either of these two Eval Scripts needs to be Phase:Final Priority:2000. I've attached a .user file with an example. Will that cover your needs as far as number of languages?

Having a list of pre-set languages is a bit more difficult. Since Savage Worlds is such an open-ended system, it's not easy to come up with a fixed list of languages. Each game would have it's own set. If we set it up to use a fixed set of languages from a list built using the editor, it could force everyone to set up a list in the editor and not all users are comfortable with that. I have an idea or two about how this could be handled, but it's not a sure thing.

Keep those ideas coming!

[Grimmshade]

- I have to put in a big vote to update to the Deluxe edition. This would be by far my number 1 must have to kep Hero Lab even viable for SW.
- Also, the Fantasy Companion would be a great addition, especially if you could get the race creator in there. I'd love to see some of the Pulp Edges added in as well from the Pulp Toolkit.
- A few more custom options would certainly be great, like the ability to add an extra Edge (for free, like can be gained in Slipstream with the use of the Heroic rule.)
- Of course I would love to see the official settings added, especially Slipstream so that we would have some Sci-Fi options.

[Kiros]

Order of preference for me:
1) Update to SW Deluxe
2) Support for Realms of Cthulhu (this should be relatively easy, perhaps doing stat changes first then support for 1890s, 1920s, modern equipment second)
3) Support for Fantasy Companion

[dartnet]

Order of preference for me:
1) Update to SW Deluxe
2) Support for Realms of Cthulhu (this should be relatively easy, perhaps doing stat changes first then support for 1890s, 1920s, modern equipment second)
3) Support for Fantasy Companion

Add the super power books, Deadlands, and Space 1889 and you got my wish list.

[tatteredking]

Alrighty, so to compile things a bit...looks like the bulk of the people want

SW Deluxe
Supers Companion
Fantasy Companion
Pulp Toolkit

RoC (In Progress (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=10076))
Deadlands (There is a Deadlands Reloaded User file up at this site. www.cheeseweasel.net (http://www.cheeseweasel.net). Also check out this thread (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=11065))
Space 1899
Slipstream (I have heard rumors that someone is working on this)


Custom options for
- extra Edge
- override/ignore background edge restrictions

I agree with Crusader's thought on Languages. While it would be a lot easier just to select the languages you want, each of those languages would need to be entered in the editor...for each setting. If you are talking a modern, real-world setting, the list is MUCH longer than 10 languages (it's over 7000).

[CapedCrusader]

It might be possible to take care of those last two already.

Extra Edge: You can add an extra Edge on the Personal tab with Permanent Adjustments.

Override Prerequisites: Open the Editor, and create a duplicate of the Edge you want to set up without prereqs. Remove the prereqs from the duplicate. Then bootstrap the original Edge to it, and open the Tags menu in the bootstrap item and add:
Group ID: thing
Tag ID: skipprereq
This will cause it to skip all prereqs. Then on the duplicate, click on Omit from Printout and the printed character sheet will only show the bootstrapped Edge. Voila!

The main reason I wrote it out this way was to show how to skip pre-requisites. Actually, once you've created the duplicate without the prereqs, you're done. Just choose that version.

[tatteredking]

strange coincidence....you posted this yesterday....I read it this morning...and needed it this afternoon :)

[Praetor]

It might be possible to take care of those last two already.

Extra Edge: You can add an extra Edge on the Personal tab with Permanent Adjustments.



Rob one time mentioned adding an Adjustments tab to the Editor for adding such things as extra edges, extra hits/wounds, etc. Is this still in the works?

[CapedCrusader]

I'll check on it...

[tatteredking]

Suggested Change/Enhancement.

Currently, Arcane Backgrounds are selected through the powers, to determine which powers are useable by which arcane backgrounds. The issue with this, is every time a new setting book comes out with a new arcane background, all the powers need to be copied, with only the new AB selected in them.

Suggestion, would be to change how this is done, where, through the Arcane Background, the applicable powers are selected. This would reduce the time needed to copy all the core powers into a user defined file for a new setting, just to add in a new Arcane Background.

[tatteredking]

Sundered Skies Companion has been added in. Unfortunately I had to integrate the files together. There are still some issues I am trying to work out. If anyone is interested in the files, I'm more than happy to share them.

[Nestor]

If it's not too late to add a request...

It would be very helpful to have the option of entering a custom Edge or Hindrance.

That way users could use HeroLab for new published settings with unique Traits without having to wait for someone to create a data file for them.

[CapedCrusader]

Have you seen the Editor? New Edges and Hindrances can be entered there.

[MonsterMike]

I was going to post some suggestions, but realized I may be way too late to this party if the coding is in its final stages. I'll wait for the new release, then comment with an eye toward future enhancements.

Are you planning on having Edges, Magic, and Weapons from the various setting books available in the core pack for SW, or will each setting be a separate add-on?

[Nestor]

Have you seen the Editor? New Edges and Hindrances can be entered there.

I have yet to successfully use it to make any changes. Whatever skill is required to operate it is sadly beyond my means. :o

[tatteredking]

Nestor, in the Editor, if you go to the Help menu at the top, there are a series of tutorials you can work through to help you get your feet under you with how to work it.

I would suggest not changing what is already there, as whenever there is a new update, the update will overrwrite your changes.

Instead, add new content by creating a new data file (File>New Data File). If you want to modify an Edge in existance, you would then create a copy of that Edge. First, navigate to the Edge tab along the top of the editor, then along the left side towards the bottom, clock the New(Copy) button and find the Edge you want to copy.

Actually modifying your revised Edge or creating a new one will take some doing, and will be specific to what you want it to do. If you post some more specific questions, like "How would I create an Edge that is like Berserk, but gives a +3 Fighting and a -3 Parry?", we'd be happy to help you.

I'll give you a hint, one of the first things I'd tell you to do on that specific one would be to make a copy of the Berserk edge and take a look at how it is built, and how it functions.

[tatteredking]

Are you planning on having Edges, Magic, and Weapons from the various setting books available in the core pack for SW, or will each setting be a separate add-on?

Most likely Edges, Magic and Weapons from the setting books will be in setting specific files. I'm not sure how Crusader has things worked out, but that is how I would do it.

[Nestor]

Nestor, in the Editor, if you go to the Help menu at the top, there are a series of tutorials you can work through to help you get your feet under you with how to work it.

I would suggest not changing what is already there, as whenever there is a new update, the update will overrwrite your changes.

Instead, add new content by creating a new data file (File>New Data File). If you want to modify an Edge in existance, you would then create a copy of that Edge. First, navigate to the Edge tab along the top of the editor, then along the left side towards the bottom, clock the New(Copy) button and find the Edge you want to copy.

Actually modifying your revised Edge or creating a new one will take some doing, and will be specific to what you want it to do. If you post some more specific questions, like "How would I create an Edge that is like Berserk, but gives a +3 Fighting and a -3 Parry?", we'd be happy to help you.

I'll give you a hint, one of the first things I'd tell you to do on that specific one would be to make a copy of the Berserk edge and take a look at how it is built, and how it functions.

Thanks for the offer. :)

One of my first obstacles was figuring how to actually open a file for editing, since every time I tried it told me I couldn't modify it. And the way the instructions describe it, you copy the file then open it, which didn't work.

But I can see where starting with a fresh file could work. :)

[tatteredking]

yeah copying a file will copy everything in the file....and the program will freeze up seeing two copies of everything. That's why everything needs a unique name.

[Gobbo]

I would like support for the new Earthdawn Savage Worlds Edition as well as the Agents of Oblivion setting. Those are my big wish list items there.

[Flynnwd]

I would love to see new custom character sheets, or at least grab the XSLT files used to create the current ones, so I can build my own.

With Regards,
Flynn

[thegneech]

I just picked up the SW license for my Ghostbusters campaign. :) So my request (besides finishing the Horror Companion dataset) would be an option to print out a "training wheels" style character sheet for your character.

( http://www.peginc.com/freebies/SWcore/SWEX_TrainingWheelsCS.pdf )

-The Gneech :cool:

[CapedCrusader]

Well, request #1 is very close to ready. It's in testing now.

#2 would take more work...

[Darksaint]

Here's something crazy...

If you take the time to build your own setting, why not have the ability to add your own custom logo to the loading page as well? I've got four Savage Worlds mods and IF I'm in a hurry (like right before we start for the evening and someone has forgotten their character and I need to print one...) having the custom logo might keep me from loading the wrong setting... twice...

[rob]

If you take the time to build your own setting, why not have the ability to add your own custom logo to the loading page as well?

Not crazy at all. And already doable. :)

Each instance is stored in its own folder. Within that folder is a file named logo.bmp, which is the logo image displayed by Hero Lab on the Select Game form. If you replace this file with your own logo, *please* make sure to keep the dimensions the same as the original file.

Hope this helps...

[Darksaint]

Thanx Rob... Found it, did it and it looks great.

One thing I'm wondering, though... does that custom graphic go with the file when you export it, or does it need to be sent as a separate item then installed by the recipient?

[rob]

One thing I'm wondering, though... does that custom graphic go with the file when you export it, or does it need to be sent as a separate item then installed by the recipient?

Sorry for not seeing this until now. I monitor the forum via email, and edits to posts (like the addition of this question) are never sent via email. Fortunately, John spotted this and flagged it to me. :)

I'm 99% sure that it does not get included by the HLExport tool, and a quick test seems to confirm that. I'll ask Colen (the HL guru) about this to see what can be done in the future.

[ledeir]

Hopefully I didn't just overlook this but, is there any way to have herolab calculate the combat rating of a character / npc in savage worlds?

And I apologize if this has already been addressed or asked, I did a quick search but I have the bad habit of overlooking things...

[CapedCrusader]

I'll see what I can do, but there's a subjective component that will be hard to program for. It stipulates that "A wizard who typically uses the bolt power averages a standard bolt attack of 2d6". Having Hero Lab know what attack a character "typically" uses will be difficult, and then for a variable damage spell like Bolt, there's no way for Hero Lab to know how much damage a hero typically does.

The rest of it is do-able, but the Attack part of that equation is tough. There might be a way to create a place to enter the amount of their typical damage manually, and then it could be changed if the hero changed tactics. Otherwise we'd have to build a whole infrastructure to determine which things could be considered "attacks" for CR purposes, and then there would still need to be a way to deal with variable effects like Bolt.

No, it had not been addressed yet, you are the first person that has asked about it. So no apologies necessary! Your search told you true.

[ledeir]

That's a good point...

If I were implementing it myself I'm probably just work around that by making a magic attack weapon in which I could specify the damage and then have HL use the damage value for the currently equipped weapon.

But that's pretty much a hacked solution...

I look forward to hearing any further ideas you have and obviously I understand if it would require too many changes to support.

Thanks for taking the time to read this!

[zarlor]

I think my big request right now would be a way to do a conditional bootstrap in code. Admittedly with things that are basically the addition of an Edge or Hindrance you can try to code in the effect of that Edge or Hindrance in a conditional statement, but some things just can't work that way (like bootstrapping a skill or otherwise making the Edge/Hindrance show up on the character sheet in the usual spot.)

EDIT: I think we have a better idea from a post by Mathias about why this specific thing above would not be workable in HL. So please ignore it. We need to work from boostrapping things and then conditionally ignoring them rather than being able to conditionally add them.

I'd also second that a combat rating calculator might be nice. I would only add that it doesn't have to get too down in the weeds on those calculations, though, as a ballpark figure would probably be good enough.

Way down on the pie-in-the-sky wish list would be for a nice way to modify the printable character sheet. Custom output is ok, if more than a bit obscure, but even with some XSL tools I'd been messing around with it has been tough to set-up anything decent looking with the information I wanted to put on the sheets. Definitely not something I think is even remotely easy to put into something like Hero Lab but you did ask for what we'd like to see in the program, after all. ;)

EDIT: For the character sheet part of this request I didn't realize that we already had that available by just taking the dossiers.dat and sheet*.dat files and changing them into .user files. I used that method to make an Extended Character Sheet (just search the forum if you might be interested) using that method. And many thanks to Mathias for pointing that out!

[Frizbog]

At least one variety of SW (Daring Tales of the Sprawl, from TripleAce) uses different wild die for different traits/abilities--such as a d12 for the ability, with a d10 for the wild die, while d6 remains the "default" wild die for everything else.

I don't see any way to make a .HL file that could possibly support that...but then I am no expert at the HL editor.

[Bryan]

Support for Cyber Ware equipment

To agree with the last post

With Interface Zero 2.0 coming out and other near future campaign settings there should be a way to add bionic equipment just like you do with magic items in a fantasy campaign.

[CapedCrusader]

We looked at Interface Zero, but their rather complex cyberwear design system would require a whole new set of base code to support, on the level with Magic Items for the Fantasy Companion. Unfortunately, it's quite a lot for just a Setting.

For Daring Tales all that's really needed is the Wild Die change in the short description. Since changes in the Wild Die are not tracked anywhere this would cover it. In order to go any farther, we'd have to make a change to display the current Wild Die for each trait, and since this is the only Setting that does that, again it's an awful lot of change for a single Setting.

[zarlor]

I would also like to see a fairly easy/quick way to select certain parts of a source. So instead of hitting the checkbox for a certain sources to have all of the rules of that source apply, I'd like to have some way to select, say, only all Edges, Hindrances, Skills, Arcane Backgrounds, Arcane Powers and/or various Equipment and Weapons for that source to show up (probably in that order of priority if only part of that could be implemented).

I find that I'd love to be able to make some of, say, the stuff in Deadlands and Deadlands: Noir show us as available to my Deadlands: Hell on Earth players, but at the moment I have to essentially create a new source and then select that source for every little thing I want to show up as available for my players. Tedious, but it works well enough for what I want. It also means if there are any updates to any of those .user files I have to go back and fix them if I update from official sources. So having some way within the program to do that would just be awesome, and a huge time saver.

[zarlor]

Another thing, partially brought up by someone on the Pinnacle forums, when you select Edges at character creation they are grouped by type, but when you go to add an Edge at Advancement they are all just alphabetical. It would be nice to have them grouped by category there as well.

It may also be helpful to have a couple of sort options, too. So, for example, being able to sort by pre-requisites, such that if you satisfy all of them you could put those together at the top of the list (yes, I realize you can filter that way, but that's just an example).

Related it might be nice to search on pre-requisites as well. Right now the search function will search the names and text of something like an Edge but it doesn't search the pre-requisite text. So if I wanted to, for example, use the search box to limit only to Seasoned Edges there is no way for me to do that currently.

[zarlor]

I feel like I'm the only one posting to this thread lately. Don't mean to hog it up but other folks keep giving me too many ideas!

This one isn't Savage Worlds specific, but one other thing I would like to see is if we could either sort, alphabetize or otherwise group all of the updates on the "Latest Updates" screen. As it is things like the "Savage Settings" files don't seem to group up nicely together where they might be easier to find.

[jbearwillis]

zarlor I will be back - I'm waiting on a question list I made to StoryWeaver about their High-Space game, They said they are working on the answers and would send them back to me. So I have been put on hold until I get may feedback from StoryWeaver and then I will be back on asking questions and hogging some of the forum from you and making CapeCrusaders job that much harder. LOL. just kidding - I know he loves answering my pain in the butt questions.

[jbearwillis]

CapeCrusader, is there anyway to put a check box in the Setting adjustment tab that will turn on the No power Points rule. Instead of telling all players to do so in there herolab programs. That way you can have it for only the settings you wish it to be turned on for. It would be so much easier that way. I have some campaigns I use it for and others I do not. I know you can make portfolio's so all your players can use the same rules but that becomes so much more of a pain if you have several campaigns going on. It just would be nice to have it set to the setting adjust tab.

Thanks JBear

[zarlor]

Oooh. Yeah, that would be generally nice to have available for all of the setting rules. Although I know it can be coded in for Multiple Languages, but it could be helpful to have any of the rest available as a setting rule checkbox.

EDIT: This was added in v2.7.

[zarlor]

Another one brought up over on the Pinnacle forums was that there is no Permanent Adjustment selection for SPC Super Power points, which could be useful particularly or throwing together quickie NPCs for that setting.

EDIT: Added in v2.7

[CapedCrusader]

Oooh, goodie! Setting Adjustment suggestions! I'll look into both of these.

[jbearwillis]

Coolness that makes my day.

[zarlor]

Per Mathias' suggestion I'd like to request fixed-race minions, which he says "What that will allow is that you can add a bootstrap of the race to the <minion> entry - currently, you can add that bootstrap, but it will generate lots of errors, and it'll still offer you a choice of races along the top (which allows you to get to the unexpected state of having two races on the same character, which could have all sorts of unforeseen consequences)"

Also I'd like to request that an "Ally Helper" tab (compset="Ally") be added to the editor, so that we have a place to create new items like mscFamiliar.

[zarlor]

It would also be nice to get more of the basic Edges/Hindrances to have User Activated abilities on them where appropriate. For example, it would be helpful to have something like the following on the Champion Edge at Pre-Traits/5000:
if (field[abilActive].value <> 0) then
perform #traitadjust[trTough,+,2,"Champion - vs. supernaturally evil/good"]
endif

That way I could just click the checkbox for "Champion" that shows up on my"In-Play" tab to show that increased Toughness on my character when that character happens to be engaged with supernatural good/evil as appropriate. I could put together a list of appropriate Edges/Hindrances where I think this might apply, if you like.

EDIT: This has been added in v2.7

[zarlor]

I'd like to request that the abBurrow (Burrowing) Racial Ability have it's Eval Script moved from occurring at Pre-Traits/5000 to occurring at Final/1000 to accommodate those places where the abilValue (aka Pace) for the Burrowing ability might need to be computed from a trtFinal value.

[CapedCrusader]

Hmmm... I'll check this. I can't think of anything right off-hand that requires it to be at Pre-Traits/5000.

[CapedCrusader]

As far as the Activation, that would be very cool. Some of those Edges might need to have back end code written for them. Sometimes for Edges that weren't on all the time the back end code was not created. Run that list up, and I'll verify them.

[zarlor]

I've been going through and doing the "User Activated" version for a bunch of the ones in the data files I've got but I'll try to take a look at the basic ones and get back to you on which of them I think might benefit from it.

[zarlor]

Caped, you may well regret having asked me for this list since it also brought up some ideas for other feature requests to go with it. ;) But here goes, as I may as wll get this posted before the hitman comes to get me...

I would recommend a User Activated effect for the following:

Edges

Champion- +2 Toughness (+2 damage as well but I'm not sure there is a way to add that globally) agaisnt supernatural.

Double Shot (FC) - -2 Shooting for the attack using this. Arguably this is for Bow only but I don't think checking for that is particularly important. The Improved version doesn't need a checkbox since it just removes this -2, so they just wouldn't bother checking the box.

Exorcist (HC) - +4 opposed Spirit and Faith test -v- deamos/supernatural evil. Somewhat specific but it could be for extended tests so may well be worthwhile to include, IMHO.

Frenzy - I'm torn on this one, but for a Frenzy fighter they may well do this constantly, so should probably have a checkbox for the -2 Fighting penalty. (Improved removes the penalty so no need for anything there.)

Giant Killer - This one would require adding a +1d6 bonus to all the damage values on the sheet if checked. Not sure if that is even doable, really.

Investigator - Add the selection for the +2 Notice part only (when searching through evidence). Although that one may not be all that common.

Liquid Courage - Vigor +1 die and ignore one wound level modifier. There is a further effect if fully inebriated (-2 Smarts and Agility) but I assume there is no way to have two activation boxes.

Marksman - +2 Shooting and Throwing (only when no movement during the round and RoF 1 is used.)

One of the chosen +1 (HC) - +1 to Fighting, Shooting, Throwing, and any arcane skill (but only vs. supernatrual Evil).Text needs to be fixed to remove "either" from the first sentence.

Sunder (FC) - This one might not really be possible, adding AP 1 to all weapons when check


Hindrances
Allergy (SPC) - -2/-4 penalty to all rolls when exposed.

Blind - -6 to everything when selected. Although it is only for "physical tasks" if you really wanted to go through the list and determine what is and is not physical. If you do that, though, then it's also -2 to "social" tasks (so Persuasion, Streetwise, and Intimidate, presumably.

Doubting Thomas - -2 Guts (only for supernatural horrors). This might be a candidate for not doing it, but with some settings it could be pretty common.

Hard of Hearing (Minor) - -2 Notice for hearing checks only.

Phobia - -2/-4 to all Trait rolls when in the presence of the Phobia.

Terminally Ill (SPC) - -1 to all Trait rolls for a session.


Some of the following could potentially have such an effect but I'm not sure it's worth adding it because the situation it arises in is probably fairly rare.

Edges

Arcane Resistance and Improved Arc. Res. - +2 to all opposed rolls and +2 Armor (toughness) against arcane powers. That one may come up with some regularity but in a very piecemeal fashion (arcane this attack, mundane for these 4 others, etc.) I think it's best to leave this to the player to just remember. Although if you've got a big Mage Battle type of campaign I supposed it could be useful.

Brave - could add a selectable +2 to Spirit, but Fear checks are usually 1 shot rolls, not something you're making over and over again that you might need a reminder for it.

Counterattack - -2 Fighting is a very specific circumstance so I think this is also not a good candidate.

Mentalist - Same as Arcane Resistance but with the Psionics skill specifically, so I think this one is also probably not a good candidate (although maybe for a Psionic heavy campaign with lots of Psionic battles it could be useful?)

Quick Draw - Also seems to be a one-and-done roll, so probably doesn't need this.

Strong Willed - To add a checkbox only for the +2 Spirit and Smarts rolls when resisting Test of Wills. Pretty specific situation, but I suppose it might be worth adding for a campaign where Tests come up a LOT or something.

Sweep - -2 Fighting... might be worth having a checkbox for with a Fighter that does it a lot?

Tower of Will (HC) - Same comment as for Mentalist. I can see an argument being made to include this one, but I'm not sure if it's really worth it to do so.

Several others affect rolls for Shaken or Soak that I think probably just don't come up enough to justify adding a checkbox for them.


Hindrances

Anemic - -2 to Vigor but only for Fatigue checks, poison, disease, and the like, which may well be staggered among other standard Vigor rolls and the like, so probably not a good candidate for coding in.

EDIT: These have been added in v2.7

[zarlor]

I also noticed a couple of minor issues and/or feature requests I have with some items.

Edges

Adaptable (FC) - set to Unique but it should be allowed to be taken once per Rank. Also it should have code to add a Free Edge (limited to Racial Edges and only the non-Improved versions.)

Beast Master - (more a feature request here) would be nice if we could add an NPC creature Ally to the character for them to select. Doing so is just, IMHO, a nice way of showing folks how they can use some of the stuff on those other Tabs they may not always visit or realize can be used that way. It might also be nice to put a little note in the description explaining the need to select the creature type for the companion, too.

Fast Load (FC) - Not sure if this is doable, but it might be nice if it could cycle through the character's weapons and drop their Reload value by 1 (min 0).

Followers - Much the same as Beast Master, but this would add 5 NPCS (usually defaulting to "Solider" archetype stats. Not sure how adding 5 Allys (non-Wild Cards) would really work, though. Part of me would like to see an extra field for an NPC Ally like that where you can list a number of them, then decrement or increment the number if need be. That would also make it easier on GMs using the Tactical Console by keeping groups... well, grouped. Something that would also be helpful when setting up Encounters in Hero Lab so you can more easily create groups with their own card for the whole group and such (although how to keep track of how many in the group are Shaken I don't know.)

Trademark Weapon (and Improved) - This doesn't necessarily fit in with the Activated by User stuff, but on the In-Play tab you can normally add a Weapon adustment as a Temporary Adjustment where you then select a Weapon and fill in the modifiers. It might be nice if there were a way to automatically add this field, fill in the source with the Edge name and set the modifier appropriately then the player only needs to select the weapon they want to apply it to. ---This has been added in v2.7

Weapon Naming - Right-clicking on a Weapon name on the Armory tab shows a greyed-out "Edit name of" entry. It would be nice to allow the renaming of any added weapon for various reasons, like we can with Arcane Powers.

Improvisational Fighter - If possible it would be nice if this Edge would search the sheet for any "wpImprov?" entries and apply a +1 to attack and Parry bonus to them to negate the -1 penalty they normally apply.

Increased Range (FC) - Might be nice if this one could modify the Range entries on each Ranged Weapon on the profile to increase them.

Martial Arts Master - Only supposed to be taken up to 5 times, but I'm not positive how you'd trap for that anyway (and being a Legendary edge how may people would ever really run into that problem anyway?)

Necromancer (FC) - The Zombie power should be modified to allow anyone with this Edge to take it at Novice. Or create an FC version of Zombie that is Necromancer only (since the Necro version also has a reduced point cost and some other little modifiers, mostly just changes to the text.)

Occultist - I'm not exactly sure how the "Forbidden Lore" source is actually implemented in Hero Lab. By the rules it is generally an item, but I don't see anything like that under equipment. In any case, though, the effect should be to at least require a Domain entry to the Edge to better mark down what it is for on the sheet.

Rich - Second paragraph, there's an extra space in the phrase "GM can fi gure out". BTW, a LOT of text all over the place doesn't follow this pattern of putting an extra line between paragraphs. That line makes these things a LOT easier to read so it might be nice if a lot of the other items could be given a quick run through to add that spacing for readability.

Sidekick - Like Followers it would be nice if this could add a Wild-Card NPC to the portfolio to give the player a starting point for how to implement this in Hero Lab.

Sunder (FC) and Improved Sunder - This one might not really be possible, adding AP 1 (2 with Improved) to all weapons would be nice. You could presumably add a User Activated check for tis to increase to to +2/+4 respectively, but that's only if you get a raise and I'd say leave that one to the player to track on their own.


Hindrances

Bad Eyes (Major) - the negatives given are for shooting and notice, but the text says "attack" rolls, which means Throwing should also be in the mix (and presumably fighting if you had a Reach 5 whip or something.) Since there is a 5" range limitation, though, maybe there should be an Activation for this one and at least add Throwing into the penalized traits.

One Arm - This is more of a Judgement call, but I would say the penalty should also apply to Lockpicking and probably Repair as well. Selectively it could apply to Fighting or Shooting when it's a two-handed weapon involved.

One Leg - Again, arguably, I would add Swimming as being one of those "Traits that require mobility". Admittedly there are situations where it might not apply as much, but I'd almost suggest that it's more likely to apply than not. ---This has been added in v2.7

As you can see from my other posts in this thread lately, I'm sure I've got lots more ideas to keep you busy.;)

[zarlor]

Speaking of User Activated I also think it might be nice to have some checkboxes on In Play for some maneuvers. I'm thinking especially about Wild Attack adding not only that +2 bonus to fighting and damage but also reminding you of the -2 Parry. Some of those might be really helpful for when trying to use Hero Lab at the table.

[zarlor]

This one just came up in play today. On the "In Play" tab of a Portfolio under "Activated Abilities" it would be really nice if we could get either a mouse-over pop-up, something showing up on the (?) button or even a new button that could tell us where the ability comes from. For example I can see "Stealth Skill Modifier" which happens to be from magical armor, but in no place does it show that's actually where that bonus comes from so I can know for certain when to activate or deactivate it without otherwise remembering where it's from or looking at all of my items on their respective tabs to find out.

May sound dumb but we've got 4 different games going and depending on who can or can't make it a specific week it's possible we might not have any particular character in front of us for several weeks and it's hard to remember where those things come from every time. :/

Also is there a way we could get a Power Point Tracker for Magic Items (obviously this is primarily a Fantasy Companion effect)? I'm thinking about things like Minor Artifacts that have a spell ability since they would have a separate set of Power Points that would be tracked from those of the character.

EDIT: This also applies to Gadgeteer items, racial abilities, certain Edges, etc... that might otherwise give a character a separate Arcane Power with it's own PPs (and possibly even it's own skill that it's activated from.)

[zarlor]

Yet another one that a post here made me think of... maybe we should have, I guess they would be like derived traits for things like Common Knowledge, Soak and whatever you might call a Recover from Shaken roll. There are quite a few Edges and Hindrances that affect those 3 in particular in some way and it would be nice to see those on the sheet/portfolio at a glance. (Getting sick of me yet, Caped? ;))

[CapedCrusader]

Cool! I'll go over this...

[zarlor]

A couple more... Clint verified in this thread (http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40272) that any skill is only allowed to be raised once per advancement. Not sure if it's worth trying to trap for that in Hero Lab, but it might be a nice addition.

Although that does bring up another issue for me which is that if you are doing a character with advancements from scratch and you find you needed to delete something you took at one of your advancements to change it that all of the later advancements move down, if you will (as if they were taken a level earlier). That's normally not a problem except for in the way Hero Lab traps for if you've only taken one Attribute increase per Rank. In that case what had been a legal increase might get flagged as an illegal one because of how all the advancements moved down one position. So maybe if we had a way to replace an advancement rather than just delete it we could have a way to alleviate that warning.

Also MonsterMike brought up in this thread (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=43690) on this forum, "...a suggestion for the Trademark Weapon Edge: When you take this Edge, it should offer a dropdown list of your current weapons so you can select which weapon is the trademark weapon. Then this would show as (skill) + 1 under your weapons for that weapon on the character sheet. You can work around this with an in-play adjustment, but it seems more natural to make it part of the Edge." I would only add that the other option would be for it to create the in-play adjustment entry which was my suggestion earlier in this very thread, but whatever works is cool with me.

EDIT: Trademark Weapon dropdown list added in v2.7

[Dayleph]

My first official post to these forums... /sniff
I'm fairly new to HL, so I shall beg forgiveness now if this is something that is actually right in front of my nose and I just keep missing it... I also didn't see anyone bring this up in this thread posting (or anywhere else), so it may already have been mentioned. If so, I apologize for the duplication.

In the Super Powers Companion, there is a power mod called "Switchable" that I don't see when creating characters. Several members of our group are using the ability, so it would be extremely helpful if it was there. Am I just missing it completely?

In case it isn't there, here is the description from the book:
Switchable (+1 per 3 Power Points):
This modifier allows a character to switch between different sets of powers. The character first buys one power, and then pays 1 Power Point for every 3 Power Points of the original power (round up). Now she creates another power equal to the original cost, and she can choose to use one or the other - but not both powers at the same time. The character can switch between the powers as a free action. Switching between powers connected by this modifier counts as the same action for purposes of not allowing a repeat action in a round.
Since using a Switchable power requires a free action to activate, they may not take the Requires Activation modifier as well. A character may take the Switchable modifier more than once to have different restricted powers usable at the same time. With the GM's approval, a character may take more than one power under the Switchable modifier as long as they do not exceed the base point value and their combined use makes sense.

[zarlor]

EDIT: The Switchable modifier from the post previous to this one was added in v2.7

Another one that came up in play today... I don't see that on the portfolio that the Drawbacks (which are Bootstrapped to ABs, normally) don't show up on the Abilities column, or otherwise anyplace on the In-Play tab. I forgot what mine was for my character and had to look it up in the book after realizing it wasn't listed. :/

[jbearwillis]

Cape, I was wondering if there is a way to put in extra place holders for separators, to be able to have them when we need them to use in our own data file instead of having to change the name of ones already in use (Example: if a new setting has bio-weapons. We could use the place holder separators to add new ones with out having to use ones that already are there and being used.). Just a thought if it's able to be done.

[Loveless2013]

Necropolis 2350 would be an awesome addition. I've been trying to throw it together myself, but I'm kind of new to editing on HL.

[Loveless2013]

Not sure where my last post went, so I'll repost it. I'd love to see a campaign pack for Necropolis 2350. I've been trying to make it bit by bit, but I'm pretty new to this whole editing thing.

[caudron]

What I would most like to see are more Savage Worlds character sheets. The default one is decent, but misses a few pieces and isn't terribly visually interesting. For example, I picked the Linguist Edge, got 6 languages, and unless I have the program up in front of me, I just have to remember the list because they aren't on the printed sheet. There are a few missing pieces like that. But equally importantly, honestly, would be making it look great. Right now it's very utilitarian. Perhaps have multiple output types (stylized hero block that takes a half page, One page hero summary sheet like you have now, and Two page detailed character sheet).

[Loveless2013]

Had I known there was a (very well made) custom creation I'd have kept my mouth shut. :)

[zarlor]

Well, it never hurts to ask for an "official" release of something. It just takes Lone Wolf and Triple Ace Games getting together to come to an agreement on releasing it. You could also bug the folks over at Triple Ace to get with Lone Wolf about it, too.

And if the file you are referring to is mine... well, it's actually based on the older "Necropolis" setting which I got WAAAYY back when, I think Pinnacle was actually releasing it at that time, and I don't know if there are any differences between that and "Necropolis 2350" so my file could be missing a few updates since I don't have the newer book from Triple Ace.

[charlieluce]

I'd really like the ability to add a Custom Power (an Arcane Power in my specific case).

[zarlor]

I'd really like the ability to add a Custom Power (an Arcane Power in my specific case).

That can already be done by using the Editor. Just use it to create a new .user file and go to the Arcane Power tab. I find it easiest to make judicious use of the "New (Copy)" button to copy and existing power that is similar to the one I want to create to help make it a little easier.

Hope that helps!

[charlieluce]

I know, but I was kind of hoping not to have to create and maintain a .user file for a game that I'm not running. I can do customs with Edges, but not Powers.

[zarlor]

I know, but I was kind of hoping not to have to create and maintain a .user file for a game that I'm not running. I can do customs with Edges, but not Powers.

Oh, so you mean like using the "CUSTOM EDGE" item from within Hero Lab itself? Not a bad idea to have... well everywhere really, for one off stuff. I concur it would be nice to have that functionality. Although I will add that in my own games it seems like I always just end up adding things to a .user file anyway because inevitably others end up wanting to use it, too, and the .user versions of things end up being better integrated (especially for things like Edges or Hindrances which can have bonuses or negatives to things that I can then incorporate pretty easily using the Editor.)

[CapedCrusader]

With Powers there are some other considerations that make it difficult to create one on-the-fly like you can with Edges. For example, most Arcane Backgrounds have specific lists of Powers they can use, and if it's set up from the Arcane Background side there wouldn't be a way to add it to the list without going through the Editor.

[CapedCrusader]

And charlie, I like your sig...

[zarlor]

With Powers there are some other considerations that make it difficult to create one on-the-fly like you can with Edges. For example, most Arcane Backgrounds have specific lists of Powers they can use, and if it's set up from the Arcane Background side there wouldn't be a way to add it to the list without going through the Editor.

That's not really a consideration for a one-off on a sheet, though. The presumption there is that all other considerations are essentially irrelevant in that, for that character, they meet any requirements needed for that thing. Same for something like an Edge but of course the problem there is all of the rest of the stuff that Edges or Hindrances might normally have integrated into them, such as modifiers to things or, as you mention, lists of allowed Powers. Still, if a user wants to add something on the fly either as a one-shot for an NPC on the GM side or maybe just a placeholder for a PC for something they want to add a permanent version of later then I think it could be helpful having that.

I know I find it helpful for that purpose for equipment and especially helpful for magic items where using the custom creator can help you to figure out the cost for a permanent version to be made in the Editor.

[Blinkey]

I would like the option to print Hair Color, Eye Color, and Skin Color on the character sheet.
I added this to the sheet_standard1.dat below the sex/age/height/weight section. Nothing changed

@text &= "; Hair: " & hero.child[mscPerson].field[perHair].text
@text &= "; Eye: " & hero.child[mscPerson].field[perEye].text
@text &= "; Skin: " & hero.child[mscPerson].field[perSkin].text

[zarlor]

I would like the option to print Hair Color, Eye Color, and Skin Color on the character sheet.
I added this to the sheet_standard1.dat below the sex/age/height/weight section. Nothing changed

@text &= "; Hair: " & hero.child[mscPerson].field[perHair].text
@text &= "; Eye: " & hero.child[mscPerson].field[perEye].text
@text &= "; Skin: " & hero.child[mscPerson].field[perSkin].text

Modifying that sheet will do nothing because it's not referenced in the already compiled program. You'd need to make a copy of the entire Savage Worlds game system first and then I think it will reference that (i. e. you're using the Authoring Kit at that point).

For the base system you'd have to use a custom output sheet instead but I don't think we've found anyone with enough XML experience to really make a full sheet using custom output yet (unlike the Pathfinder folks who have a couple of Custom Output sheets.) The best we've got that I know of is a sheet I did (https://www.dropbox.com/s/qog55qn94ooe80v/fullsheet_savage.zip) which prints out in grids most things I could find that I could get printed out, although it should be noted that there are a few things that apparently don't print out yet, and those that I've found I have requested in this very thread. Unfortunately, I'm horrible with XML so it's very poorly formatted. I have put together one other custom output sheet, though, that I use as a supplement to the standard HL sheet where I list, what I can, that isn't on the main sheet like those things you mentioned along with the full descriptions of gear, edges, hindrances, power, etc. I haven't posted a link to that one here yet but if anyone wants it I could post here. It looks just a bad at that other "full" sheet I did, just with less duplication of info from the main sheet.

EDIT: Those things and languages from a previous post are all on the sheet, I think they may have made it in with v2.6 or maybe v2.5, I'm not sure. There is also now available, though not officially, an "Extended" character sheet. Just look for the thread "Extended Character Sheets (http://forums.wolflair.com/forumdisplay.php?f=59)" on this forum for a .hl install file if you would like to add that as something to have available in your copy of HL.

[Shadizar]

I'd most like to see two things that block aspects of campaign and/or houserules:
Most importantly, Psionics and spell point support. For d20 and Pathfinder, psionics (a la dreamscarred's stuff for PF), and spell points (unearthed arcana in d20) are used in every Pathfinder and 3.5 campaign I'm involved in.

Secondly, pet peeve; I have my own currency ratios and weights, would love to not have to do hacky workarounds to use them :)

[jbearwillis]

Is this for Savage Worlds or Pathfinder, I'm a bit confused as to what your asking.

[zarlor]

Another one to add to the list... it would be nice to have the Menu Selection mechanic added to Hindrances as well as on Edges. The reason is that Hindrances are free and it's a useful mechanic for adding certain in-game effects that might otherwise be considered Edges but are not available for purchase as an Edge.

Alternately, and maybe this is a better way to handle it, add another Edge-type setup that is available for free in the same way Hindrances are... maybe call it In-Game Effects or something like that. I've been using it for various non-Hindrance/Edge type things like the various Deadlands "Veteran of the..." effects, the HoE Mutations, the Weird Wars Rome Legacy effects, and so on. It's not always clear to the players that such things are available as a "Hindrance" so adding another item there could be pretty helpful. Just keep in mind that they could be positive or negative effects so you need the capabilities of both Edges and Hindrances to be available there.

[zarlor]

Another request... would it be possible to get sheet_standard1.dat and sheet_standard2.dat unlinked, if you will, from the compiled data files? What I mean by that is I think I have some decent understanding of how to modify those files to make a character sheet and I think I can do that easier than I've been able to figure out trying to do any of that using XML for the Custom Output stuff so if we could have those files modifiable such that they would be read when we actually generate a sheet (or at least read when we load up the game system in HL) it might give us a bit more flexibility with what's we want on our sheets. Maybe even adding a page 3 or even 4 to that, if that's possible.

EDIT: Turns out we can already do this! (And thanks to Mathias for letting me know how). I've made an "Extended" version of the character sheet available here on the forum (see Extended Character Sheets (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=45759)) for anyone interested. So please feel free to ignore this request. :)

[Mathias]

I'd recommend adding a list expression to the Hindrances table, that tests for a Hide tag. For example:


<list><![CDATA[
!Hide.Hindrance
]]></list>


That way, in DL: Noir, every character can have the Poverty hindrance bootstrapped, and those characters who take something else that cancels that automatic hindrance will no longer see it (since the other pick assigned the tag to Poverty that hides it). Here's the thread this is from: http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=45651

Oh, a reminder - when adding list expressions that hide things, it's best to add this setting to the table:

alwaysupdate="yes"

Otherwise, even after the tag had been assigned, the pick wouldn't be hidden until the user switched tabs and switched back, or added/deleted something else from that table (Hero Lab tries to save computational cycles by minimizing how often it tests list expressions on tables, but in this case, that's not the behavior you want).

This'll need to be applied to all the things that display hindrances - the Edges tab, the summary panels, the dashboard, the tactical console, the printout, and the statblock (and anywhere else that they're displayed that I forgot about).

Oh, and you may want to make this more generic - Hide.Edge, perhaps, and then have the same list expression on the edges, hindrances, and rewards tables, so that the same behavior is available in all those cases. (Hide.Ability already exists, and means something slightly different - otherwise, I'd have recommended that as the tag to use). If there's a term in Savage Worlds that covers Edges, Hindrances, Rewards, and things that are similar to them, use that term instead.

[atimrogers]

I mentioned this in a separate thread, but I'd like to see stacked weapons marked on the character sheet. Right now, you can see 3x rope in gear, but not 3x daggers in weapons (you just see one dagger).

Is this an easy fix?

Thanks,
Tim

[CapedCrusader]

I don't know right off-hand. I'll look into it over the weekend and let you know.

[CapedCrusader]

Zarlor, can your request about in-game effects can use either Temporary or Permanent Adjustments?

[zarlor]

Yes, either. In essence it would be nice to have something to handle some of the non-Edge/Hindrance things but that otherwise can do all the same things that Edges and Hindrances can. The thing itself is likely permanent (just like an Edge or a Hindrance) but could have temporary or otherwise conditional effect. I'm not sure what to call them, though. They wouldn't necessarily be "rewards". Think of the "Veteran of the Weird West" card draw effects or Mutations in Hell on Earth or even becoming Harrowed after character creation. It's a permanent thing that happens to the character and maybe it just adds an Edge or a Hindrance, but sometimes they do special other things just like an Edge or Hindrance would. But these things are acquired in game in a way that would not cost an advance. If it's a character-creation only thing then for now I can add it as an Edge that pays for itself (or a Hindrance that provides no reward), after that I've mostly just been adding them as Hindrances because the mechanic for them being free is already built-in for that. But it's really neither of those things.

[zarlor]

It might be nice to have a Tag and a checkbox in the editor for showing Animal-level intelligence. That would also need to add an "(A)" after the Smarts value on the character sheet, on the Basics column in HL, etc., as well.

[zarlor]

I mentioned this in a separate thread, but I'd like to see stacked weapons marked on the character sheet. Right now, you can see 3x rope in gear, but not 3x daggers in weapons (you just see one dagger).

Is this an easy fix?

Thanks,
Tim

That should be a fairly easy fix (just check those things as "stackable") but generally speaking weapons tend to be set so they are not stackable, I think mostly because they really are separate items in most cases (only one Sword fits into a scabbard, etc.) Dagger might be an exception since presumably you could have some kind of bandolier or other method for holding multiples (boot/sleeve scabbards and such). So I guess I can see that as being useful for small things, like daggers, knives, darts, etc., but personally I think they should stay un-stacked for larger objects.

[Marnhullman]

Any chance you could make the Savage Worlds portfolios work in hero lab for the iPad?

[liz]

Any chance you could make the Savage Worlds portfolios work in hero lab for the iPad?

Marnhullman, we definitely plan to look at other game systems to be supported on the iPad. However, it is important that we implement one game system first before putting out another system. Once we have the full iPad app for Pathfinder, which will allow editing characters, we will look at what other game systems we want to support on the iPad. :)

[zarlor]

From this thread (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=48082) comes a couple of things. Mathias suggested adding alwaysupdate="yes" to the Trait Portal table in tab_basics.dat.

Also I'd like to request the addition of two Traits, Command Radius and Size. They don't come up often, so maybe allow them to be hidden when the are at 0, but when they do come up it's darned helpful to be able to see them.

[SeeleyOne]

Mary Coppinger
Timothy Crowley

From this thread (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=48082) comes a couple of things. Mathias suggested adding alwaysupdate="yes" to the Trait Portal table in tab_basics.dat.

Also I'd like to request the addition of two Traits, Command Radius and Size. They don't come up often, so maybe allow them to be hidden when the are at 0, but when they do come up it's darned helpful to be able to see them.
+1 to this.

[SeeleyOne]

I think I have already brought this up before (I know it is in a thread), but it would be awesome if there was a way to set the XP table. Adding an additional Rank might be hard (Demigod is for Suzerain), but some gaming groups like to require more advances between each new Rank. A more recent officially published setting that also recommends this is Shaintar.

[SeeleyOne]

Make it so that the tags.1st file in the source folder will have the "Duplicate" group have a setting dynamic="yes"

[zarlor]

Another request that popped up in play today. It would help to have Permanent Injuries show up on the In Play tab (presumably under the Abilities column with the rest of the Edges and Hindrances).

[Gumbytie]

Vehicle Separators...

Ground
Aircraft
Boat


Any chance we could get a few more options? Say "Spacecraft" or something like that. Seems to be more and more SciFi settings popping up and technically an Aircraft and Spacecraft could be considered different :)

Or at list a couple of generic ones we could glob onto.

[Gumbytie]

Menu Arrays

Menu Arrays, do they work in Savage Worlds? (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=49722)

A thread I started. Mathias mentions they are commented out and should drop in a request here for the future.

I can see how they could be useful and enhance Edges, Hindrances, and Skills at minimum. And there are a few threads on here about something similar, so this might solve those problems.

[Mathias]

Vehicle Separators...

Ground
Aircraft
Boat


Any chance we could get a few more options? Say "Spacecraft" or something like that. Seems to be more and more SciFi settings popping up and technically an Aircraft and Spacecraft could be considered different :)

Or at list a couple of generic ones we could glob onto.


The VehType group is dynamic - data file authors can create new tags to use in their settings.

[Gumbytie]

Well I'll be d*mned it certainly is.

We might want to update the Common Code examples to mention that. It isn't very clear upon re-reading. If we are used to making Gear separators (which are not dynamic) there would be no reason to suspect that Vehicles are not quite the same :)

I have been away for quite awhile after a dead computer mishap and finally getting back to coding and updating my user files, hence all the new activity from me...

[zarlor]

It's not clear in that thread because I didn't know! I also just assumed it was like gear (I've just learned this stuff from playing around, too, I'm not LWD staff let alone an HL coding guru like Mathias.) I'll update it to mention that, though.

[Gumbytie]

No worries Zarlor. It was a learning night for both of us mate :)

I will say that while I can 'add' any additional vehicle type (cool), only Aircraft seems to inherit the 'Climb' tag. I have a mention about Acc/Top Speed/Climb in the Bugs thread.

Since I made up a Spacecraft type, it doesn't reflect 'Climb' field value. Seems to me, all three should be made available to all vehicle types, and if they are not necessary, leaving them blank would keep them hidden, or something to that affect.

If I was doing an underwater type campaign, I might want 'Climb' to be tracked for fast moving submersibles.

[thequestingvole]

I'm a relatively new Herolab user. I picked up the Savage World build and thought it was excellent, really top notch. Frankly I'm not entirely sure how I ever got by without it. These may be stupid questions - or things that are already built into the program, but if they aren't, they are things I would like to see.

Would it be possible to add a unit builder for Savage Worlds Showdown?
Would it be possible to rig the monsters so that they can be printed as a small tight stat block? Rather than something that is the size of a regular character sheet? I used to hand write my monsters onto business cards for ease of reference. I found trying to flip through sheets of A4 a bit difficult.

With my hand written monsters I generally put them in card sleeves - the ability to print a bunch of them quickly would be very useful.

[ledeir]

Would it be possible to rig the monsters so that they can be printed as a small tight stat block? Rather than something that is the size of a regular character sheet?

I second this request! I printed up my "bosses" but all the grunts were copied by hand to notecards.

[zarlor]

Would it be possible to rig the monsters so that they can be printed as a small tight stat block? Rather than something that is the size of a regular character sheet? I used to hand write my monsters onto business cards for ease of reference.

There are some alternate output formats. What about File -> Output Hero Statblock?

Or File -> Save Custom Output... and maybe selecting Simple Statblock?

Any of those work for what you're looking for?

[Myridden]

Per Mathias' suggestion I'd like to request fixed-race minions, which he says "What that will allow is that you can add a bootstrap of the race to the <minion> entry - currently, you can add that bootstrap, but it will generate lots of errors, and it'll still offer you a choice of races along the top (which allows you to get to the unexpected state of having two races on the same character, which could have all sorts of unforeseen consequences)"

Also I'd like to request that an "Ally Helper" tab (compset="Ally") be added to the editor, so that we have a place to create new items like mscFamiliar.

+1 :) In my case I'm looking to set a specific creature type with a bootstrapped ally from an edge.

[EricaOdd]

In the SPC, I'd like to see a generic +/- modifier to power costs, at least up to +/-4.

Some GMs and settings add homebrewed or otherwise new modifiers not in the books, and I'd like to see a way to reflect those modifiers in the point costs.

[zarlor]

In the SPC, I'd like to see a generic +/- modifier to power costs, at least up to +/-4.

Some GMs and settings add homebrewed or otherwise new modifiers not in the books, and I'd like to see a way to reflect those modifiers in the point costs.

+1 there, too. I've also just run into this and doing it in the Editor can be pretty hefty to work on because of having to go to each power to allow that modifier on it.

[CapedCrusader]

z, I would think that most Mower Modifiers added would only apply to a Power or two. It's only an issue if you want to add it all Powers. And there are ways around that ::grin::.
That's what the Editor is for, after all. Adding homebrew stuff.
As far as a Generic Modifier, I'll see what I can do.

[EricaOdd]

Cool, thanks!

[SeeleyOne]

A "Basic Value" already existing in Derived Traits. We have to use an eval script to make it work. It is where we do field[trtBonus].value += 0 in Traits 4000, after Calc trtFinal and before Derived trtFinal. In my opinion, since it is integral to the point of having a Derived Trait, it should be default coding. Modification to that is worthy of an eval script, but the 0 should be default. Also, the Derived Trait should have a print/no print option. There are many cases where having it exist, but not necessarily printed out on the character sheet, would be really great.

Edges and Hindrances should also have a basic value, also of 0. Again, it can be modified by eval scripts, but more importantly it would be great if it can be easily be modified by other scripts (as edges and hindrances can already modify attributes, skills, and derived traits). Maybe the choice of whether or not it is displayed is another tag option, similar to print/no print.

[SeeleyOne]

I have coding experience. I have done Java, C, C++, Bash, Perl, and Python. For web-based I have experience with html 4, html 5, javascript, jquery, and jquery mobile. I will start to learn C# when the semester starts on the 12th. Looking through the source files the coding syntax is pretty simple. I am willing to help out if it will make the program work better for all of us.

[zarlor]

I'd like to also see on the In Play tab under Temporary Adjustments a new entry just for Custom Entries. That way I can select a modifier and just put a note what it's for without having to select something that it modifies and I can see those modifiers all on the same page rather than having to switch to the Personal tab to see the notes there.

Also I'd like to have a Temporary modifier there (maybe we'll get this in the SFC anyway) that allows me to add and modify a skill I don't have on the character. For example I have a Cyborg character with a chip that has a skill on it my character does not have on his own, so having a Temp adjustment would allow me to quickly "jack in" that skill.

Finally, being able to scroll the columns, like the Abilities column in particular, would be really helpful. I've taken to including things like Maneuvers there as a reminder of all the things players can have their characters do, even worse in that I've got things like cyber gear there, and in a couple of games we have characters over legendary now so that columns is long past the size of my screen so being able to see it all would be really helpful.

[Paragon]

As has been commented, it would be nice for Preclude to be easier to use; at the very least have a pull-down for precluded items rather than having to put in the id and the source manually each time.

[bartelsmr]

Support I'd like to see:

1. Savage Worlds Deluxe

2. Fantasy Companion

3. All other "Companions"

4. Make character sheet layout (not artwork) as with most other modern settings, and the "official" Savage Worlds Deluxe. Specifically, layout advancements as these sheets do. The general look and feel of the existing sheet should be retained - I'm not looking for setting specific artwork at all.

5. Support for Settings: a) Agents of Oblivion, b) Realms of Cthulu, c) Shaintar, d) Sundered Skies

[zarlor]

Bartelsmr,

What do you mean by the first 3? The current iteration of Hero Lab is SWD and theFantasy Companion is available as an add-on (as is the Horror Companion and Super Powers Companion 1). Is there something specific from those that you see as not being supported?

For character sheet, there are ways to do that, it's just not even remotely easy. The sheets in the source folder can be copied up a level and renamed to .user and it takes a ton of work to figure out and change those, or you can use the xml export function to try to get the data out of a sheet and into some other forma (which the Pathfinder folks have done a pretty good job with because they have some java programmers over there that are very capable of doing that stuff... the best we have here right now is that I've made an extended character sheet that just included detail text for stuff instead of summary text, but even that simple change was practically beyond my ability.)

[dartnet]

Check out the Savage Setting Index thread.

For Shaintar go here.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e7wn3gr9dpoo1q2/AAB6ldh2WA_kWNkoN7nJ69ePa?dl=0

[dartnet]

Hero Lab suggestions:

Hi, I have been creating Savage Worlds fan files HL for awhile and I have a few ideas to help make the product ever better for the users and the data file authors.

A Special Table: This table should be in the edges tab and cover the ever increasing number of character options that are not Edges, Hindrances, or Rewards. Examples include, Mutations (Hell on Earth), Card Draws (Veteran o' the Weird West), and Random Table Rolls (Mad Scientist Deadlands Reloaded). This should be a resource. Scripts can be set up to enforce the amount of which type needs to be selected. Just like you can do with Edges. In the editor Specials should be set up in the Editor exactly like Edges minus the Arcane Backgrounds Tag.

Add the Standard Gear Tag to all the equipment from the Companions. That way when you add use the Horror Companion in your Pirates of the Spanish Main Game not getting atomic ghost packs and digital cameras.

Add the Setting Rule: Blood & Guts which precludes the No Mercy Edge.

Add the Miscellaneous Options: No Arcane Backgrounds precludes the following edges: edgAdept edgArcMag edgArcMir edgArcPsi edgArcSci edgArcSup edgChamp edgGadget edgHolyWar edgMental edgMrFixIt edgWizard

No Arcane Powers which precludes the following: edgAdept edgArcMag edgArcMir edgArcPsi edgArcSci edgArcSup edgChamp edgGadget edgHolyWar edgMental edgMrFixIt edgNewPwr edgPwrPts edgPwrSurg edgRapRch edgRapRch2 edgSoulDrn edgWizard skFaith skPsionics skSpellcst skWeirdSci

The first one is for settings that use different Arcane Background but may still use the same Arcane Skills. There 2nd is for setting that do not user Arcane Backgrounds at all.

All 3 should be added to the Setting Adjustment tab in the Editor.

[Paragon]

It occurs to me that from my experience with the one Edge I couldn't do properly in Broken Earth that there should be some access to the initiative tracker in the tactical console in an indirect way (a set of tags with specific effects perhaps) since from looking at the appropriate edges, currently my guess would be that the Console code is just looking at specific Edges to do specific things, so there's no way to put in something new that manipulates initiative without getting into the console code itself.

[illuminatispy]

I'd like to be able to export to a format compatible with importing into Fantasy Grounds, like D20 is.

[Gelfarin]

Looks like we're wish-listing a bit here, but I'd really like to see the Editor to be a bit more user friendly. I've been trying to teach myself it over the last couple of weeks and some of it is intuitive and some of it is beyond most of us. Would love to see options such as "minimum Strength for armor" and "toughness added for armor" in the Editor instead of code speak via strings. It was more nicely done for weapons and easier to use there. The easier Editor is to use, the more likely some of us can be of more help with these data files.

If we must stick with coding/scripting, create a list of coding to accomplish specific things. Such as the coding script for Toughness added to armor. The coding script for Strength minimum. A list of cut and paste scripting we can use to accomplish almost anything.

[Paragon]

I've actually come to the conclusion that just more complete and accessible documentation would make a huge difference.

[SeeleyOne]

The lack of need to code things as a user is a great idea. The editor would generate the code for you, based on what you want it to do.

The "Help" file being unhelpful has been a concern for many. It is easier to just come to the forums and ask. Chances are that someone either knows the answer or can figure it out.

[Paragon]

Yeah, but the truth is, most people, even most people using the editor, just aren't going to use a forum. They just won't; if they can't find what they're looking for in the Help files or with a web search, they'll either give up or stumble along.

[SeeleyOne]

That is a personal choice. I am curious how you know it to be "most people". I would think that the answer is really "most people do not want to have to code just to add something into their data set. Period.". That is something that could be said without having to make a survey (which I usually will not fill out).

Many of the feature requests that we have require more work than people want to put into Hero Lab. That is my main frustration with Hero Lab, as it feels like other than the handful of people that come to these forums that it is pretty much a "dead product". There are things that could, and should, be revised. Making an editor that does not require people to code and play directly with an XML file is one such addition. Ideally, you would not need a specific editor at all. You should be able to click on edges and then something like "create edge", where you choose if it is to add to the character directly or to a broader data file. This is all doable, and are features of the program that I am working on. I (and my gaming group) are my primary users, but the ease of use is a key design consideration. One of my groups is composed entirely of software developers and even then I am the only one that is willing to muck around with Hero Lab code. That shows me that even people who write code do not want to have to do it just to manage their characters.

[Gelfarin]

I am not a programmer of any kind, yet I love using Hero Lab for character creation. However, I can only use it a little, especially now that my gaming group is doing Savage Rifts. I don't believe Hero Labs is a "dead product" but rather needs to be updated to become more user friends. I do agree that something simple such as the "create edge" option is perfect. The same for all the other features. When you create it, make it so that you can save it permanently to the file so it doesn't have to be created each time. I can't think of a good reason this can't be done other than the initial investment in time by our programmers. However, think about the huge amount of time that would be saved by all the other "users" out there who could readily share their files with everyone else. I'd gladly share as I'm not shy about putting in the work. I am shy about the learning curve to learn how to program for just this product.

[Paragon]

That is a personal choice. I am curious how you know it to be "most people". I would think that the answer is really "most people do not want to have to code just to add something into their data set. Period.". That is something that could be said without having to make a survey (which I usually will not fill out).



You're certainly correct about the second half of your statement, but as to your first, that's a simple extension of the fact that most people in any hobby or with any product don't do forums, so why should this be any different?



my primary users, but the ease of use is a key design consideration. One of my groups is composed entirely of software developers and even then I am the only one that is willing to muck around with Hero Lab code. That shows me that even people who write code do not want to have to do it just to manage their characters.

Well, the answer of course is, that they can; it just requires a game system that is extremely self-contained and where extensions to it are still in the context of the already present game system elements. The problem is that game systems like Savage Worlds or Pathfinder aren't those systems. When new elements are added to them, they're essentially ad-hoc components that do one-off things in many cases.

But if you're running a game that entirely just uses the SW core, there's no need for a player to every mess with the editor, and for the GM only to the degree that he wants to do custom monsters or not. Its only when they want to forge into new territory that you run into that necessity.

But as a contrast, you have games like Mutants and Masterminds where you can have people who never have the need to use the editor at all.

So its not an intrinsic problem, but in part a problem because some games, while they might have a consistent structure, don't have notably consistent elements.

[Paragon]

I am not a programmer of any kind, yet I love using Hero Lab for character creation. However, I can only use it a little, especially now that my gaming group is doing Savage Rifts. I don't believe Hero Labs is a "dead product" but rather needs to be updated to become more user friends. I do agree that something simple such as the "create edge" option is perfect. The same for all the other features. When you create it, make it so that you can save it permanently to the file so it doesn't have to be created each time. I can't think of a good reason this can't be done other than the initial investment in time by our programmers. However, think about the huge amount of time that would be saved by all the other "users" out there who could readily share their files with everyone else. I'd gladly share as I'm not shy about putting in the work. I am shy about the learning curve to learn how to program for just this product.

I'd just like to note that, depending on what additions one wants to add, the latter can be overstated. While they do use the Editor, there are a lot of things that are pretty much trivial to learn to add to HL, that can be added just by copying a similar things and changing a couple of lines and toggles. As an example, when creating a new monster in SW, the most complicated thing you'll have to learn to do for the most part is how to bootstrap abilities; the rest of it is mostly self-evident when you look at an extent monster file, and much of it is just using selectors.

The less something looks like something a given game system has already done, the more you find yourself out on the hinterlands of having to actually figure out the syntax of things like eval scripts and the like, and that does get into some actual coding. But its possible to overrepresent how often and how much a routine user has to do that (as in, for many people the answer can be "not at all").

[SeeleyOne]

Here are a couple of bugs.

1) The claws and natural weapons are made to replace the Unarmed damage. This is not a part of the official rules, as shown to us in the Pinnacle forums. While it is true that you would want to use claws in place of a punch, having claws does not mean that you cannot use unarmed combat. Instead the claws, bite, tail, and horns should be natural weapons that are bootstrapped to the character.

2) Regarding natural weapons bootstrapped to a character, there do not really need to be all that many options. Each different monster does not need its own entry. Claws that do d4 are claws that do d4. This is not as much as a bug as that the core data should provide generic versions that are then in turn used by the different creatures. This is not as much a bug as an unnecessary bloat in data.

3) The races that have natural weapons, such as the Rakshaasan have their weapons bypass the minimum strength. That is, even when a Rakshasan has a strength of d4 the claws are listed as doing Str+d6.

Naturally, I have fixed all of the above in my own code. I made an eval script that looks at my versions of the generic natural weapons and my version of Natural Warrior (the only difference being that it has no eval script of its own).

[zarlor]

This one is going to be totally pie in the sky and probably way down on anyones priority list, but it's been my go-to for everything lately... I'd like an output format direct from HL into the Fantasy Grounds character format. I know I can always just use the stat-block forma with the NPC extension to pull a character into FG and then convert it into a character, but that does require a lot of extra work getting things formatted fully for a character rather than what would be appropriate for an NPC.

I find these days I'm using HL to create and update my characters to help check their "legality" and figure out derived traits and such but it ends up being FG that I use at the tabletop (yeah, at the actual tabletop, not just for VTT gaming, since I've got a monitor lying flat on our gaming table making it easy to use that for rolls and such and, for one game anyway, even for running combats.) I may be the only one who would care about something like that, but I just had to make the request. :)

[SeeleyOne]

It seems to me that would be similar to making a character sheet. But having never used FG I can only guess. Is it in XML format?

[zarlor]

The Advances tab has a link for "Add New Advances" but it can be a little confusing that there are several other things that can be done from there that are not Advances, such as adding Permanent Injuries and New Hindrances (and maybe if my other suggestion about adding other non-Edge/Hindrance things is implemented those might go here as well.) As such I think the name of the tab and the link are not descriptive enough to all of the things that can be done from this tab. I'll have to mull over something nice and succinct as a suggestion for a name, but I'm not very good at succinct. :/

[SeeleyOne]

If possible it might be better to just have a "Options" tab where the many non-Advances go. Then we can add in things like rank advancement (military rank). I have gotten around this by making 0-cost edges that are looked at by an eval script inside of the edge that gave the initial rank. I think my example on the forums is for Deadlands.

Also, the ability to have some customization with the Derived Traits would be awesome, especially if we can choose whether or not it is printed (like Edges, Hindrances, and Racial abilities). Then we could make use of setting-specific values that are used for other things. Plus we could add in a simple eval script that makes it not print if its value is 0.

[zarlor]

I just noticed an issue in my Weird Wars Rome file that probably exists in some others. I noticed that I have equipment that does certain things, like the Corona Civica providing a +2 to Charisma, but that effect is always active (even if I drop the item into a pack or on the ground). Would it be possible to get the abilActive flag set on equipment so I can choose if my character is "wearing" that gear to get its effects or not?

[Paragon]

Yeah, the gear mods seem to assume they'll be used-at-need which is often, but not always the case.

[CapedCrusader]

Ah, we just added this... we needed it for Exoskeletons.
Gear now has the Equipped flag available. Check exo's for the example.

[jfrazierjr]

I for one would like races to get thier own dedicated tab and a few "extra" dropdown and text field variables available. Likewise for racial properties.

[CapedCrusader]

The main reason the Races definitions aren't in the standard interface because players aren't normally allowed to edit them. Those are GM-only, so they are just available in the Editor.

[jfrazierjr]

The main reason the Races definitions aren't in the standard interface because players aren't normally allowed to edit them. Those are GM-only, so they are just available in the Editor.

Sorry, perhaps I am being dense here, but I really don't follow here. I am not quite sure what you mean about players able to edit and how it would relate.

To(hopefully) illustrate my point, I have two examples. The first is straight out of the Fantasy Companion.


Heritage: Some half-elves retain the grace
of their elven parent. Others gain the
adaptability of their human ancestry. A
half-elf may either start with a free Edge of
his choice (as a human), or a d6 in Agility
instead of a d4.

The way this is currently implemented as two copies of the race each with different bootstraps for the choice chosen.

Now, I will grant that this is probably FAR easier for the simple case and more importantly for a simple use would require no extra coding, though if you want the actual race name to be a singular for both, you would have to add

field[livename].text = "Half-Elven" as an eval script.



The second example is from Shaintar:

Human
Arguably the rising race of Shaintar, the balanced physical and mental traits of humans, combined with
their inherent diversity and adaptability, has helped them weather the worst apocalyptic storms and come
out stronger in the long run. They have an average lifespan of one hundred years.

Although ubiquitous and well-known by any standards, it is worth pointing out that there are many
“variants” of humans:
• The massive, powerful, and aggressive Kalinesh
• The dark and beautiful sea-going Nazatirans
• The proud and stalwart Olarans
• The exotic and swarthy Youlin-Aradi
• The angular and lithe Camoners
• The sturdy, diverse “average” folk of the rest of the Southern Kingdoms

Even with these general tendencies, though, there is a great deal of diversity within each cultural group — frail, bookwormish Kal and massive, giant-esque Nazatirans, for example. It is also important to note that, especially within the Southern Kingdoms, it is highly possible to come across human bloodlines with noticeably fae influences.

Starting Racial Package
Adaptable: Human Heroes begin with one free
starting Edge (though they must meet its prerequisites).
Diverse: Humans begin with one free d6 in one skill

So how would you code up the above, in detail? So to be clear, the use case is:

I want to pick a human and a sub-race of human. In THIS case, the sub-race does make a difference because access to some human only edges is limited to the sub-race also. For example, the "Desert Born" Edge is limited to Humans of the Youlin-Aradi "sub-race".


Desert-Born
Requirements: Background, Human, Agility d6+,
Vigor d8+, Strength d6+, Special
The character must be from the Eternal Desert, one
of the Youlin Aradi. One who is Desert-Born gains a +2 to
resist heat effects and a +1 to Survival checks in desert
regions. They also gain one of the following (ignore any
requirements): Alertness, Danger Sense, Fleet Footed,
or Quick.


Then there is the pesky business of a of x free skills at d6. Yes, you could just give extra skill points, but what if(for the sake of argument here), WHICH skill is chosen is important, perhaps for some future edge pre-requisites. Now this may be a way out there case, but until recently, so was a character with more than one Arcane Background.


In the later case(Shaintar Human), what I would expect based upon the way other game systems in HeroLab are configured, would be a Race tab with a drop down with the various races. Then, if a race has a sub-race, the sub-race field would become visible and allow choosing of the sub-race. Likewise, if the race or sub-race requires a choice such as which skill is my free d6 skill, a list of all skills would be presented and the user would pick the skill to be granted. Of course the would have to be code behind all of these choices, but I imagine the UI would be cleaner.

Note that I am not implementing Shaintar and it's human sub-races, but that's really beside the point as it's meant to show the concept of child "things" which are part of the Race and why I believe having it's own tab makes sense in some circumstances as well as the option to have multiple child chooser fields available for data authors or even just simple at home GM's to utilize as they see fit. There could even be a UI checkbox on the load screen JUST LIKE the "Multiple races" to allow the current method of a single popup box OR a dedicated tab for the more complex cases(in theory, I have no idea how much control one has once you get to the source options checkbox popup window).

I also realize that changing a UI is a decent sized task and I understand it's not something that would be implemented in just a few days of work and released. All I am asking is for it to be put into the queue for future consideration to be worked on.

[CapedCrusader]

What I meant was that generally the Race structure is set up by the GM at the start of the campaign, and then doesn't change much for the run of the game. The players don't usually choose much other than the Race. Yes, there are some limitations for what we can offer in order to remain flexible enough to support all of the different variations of Savage Worlds. The other game systems do not have to deal with this. They don't have Setting files that completely re-write the rules every other day.

Now, Shaintar is an edge case. If I recall correctly (I've not played it), it makes some really serious changes to the core rules that would take a cloned system to support. I looked at trying to do a file for that at one point. But what you describe for the different variations on humans would almost require separate Race records. I don't think I'd want to try to cram them all into a single record.

That being said, we do offer a couple of mechanisms to handle this kind of thing, Factions and Groups. They're tailor-made for just that kind of thing. Only catch is that they usually get used early and there's just the two. But I've seen some really creative use with multiple sets. You could use one for sub-race and populate it accordingly by Race.
You mention the way other game systems in HeroLab are configured. Out of curiosity, which system are you seeing a player-level Race tab in? Pathfinder uses a single drop-down list for Race, if memory serves. Ours is at least always visible, not hidden on a background tab.

[CapedCrusader]

As far as the free Skills, this has always been an issue. Part of it is the way the Hero Lab it written. The language it is written in requires certain things to be added by the user. For every menu list we create, we have to have all of the back-end supporting code for it. Over the years, this has forced many different levels of menus. We had to add two more in this last update. Where we run into issues is the totally open-ended nature of Savage Worlds. Some of the objects in Hero Lab are completely extensible and we can add new ones until we're blue (tag lists). Others we need supporting code for each additional iteration (menus). And an open-ended menu is double tough.
Then, the final spike, is that each GM can alter it at his end with house rules. And we try to do what we can to support that effort as well.
So, it's not that I don't like the ideas. If all we had to support was Savage Worlds, we could do more customization like that. Even then, though, the sheer open-ended nature of Savage Worlds prevents us from doing a lot of that. Every person's setup is just a *little* different, even among the same game group.

[CapedCrusader]

And, no, you are NOT being dense. This is a very cumbersome means of communication.

[zarlor]

Ah, we just added this... we needed it for Exoskeletons.
Gear now has the Equipped flag available. Check exo's for the example.

Nice! But, is this even working? I took a look at Exoskeleton and noticed it added braketing code to the Eval Script, like follows (this example would be for the Charisma bonus I'm working on in the WWR file rather than the Exoskeleton's strength bonus):
if (tagis[Equipped.Equipped] <> 0) then
perform #traitadjust[trCharisma,+,2,"Corona Navalis"]
endif

Then it looks like you also add 2 add tags:
Equipped, Equippable and User, Activation

However, after recompiling and reloading, I don't see where I can activate the gear. I even tried loading a blank character with just the Sci-Fi Companion checked, add Exoskeleton as gear but it doesn't increase Strength, I've verified it isn't "dropped to the Ground" or otherwise in a container and I don't see a check box to equip it either on the Gear tab or on the In-Play tab. Is there something I'm missing on where I need to activate the gear?

[jfrazierjr]

What I meant was that generally the Race structure is set up by the GM at the start of the campaign, and then doesn't change much for the run of the game. The players don't usually choose much other than the Race. Yes, there are some limitations for what we can offer in order to remain flexible enough to support all of the different variations of Savage Worlds. The other game systems do not have to deal with this. They don't have Setting files that completely re-write the rules every other day.

Now, Shaintar is an edge case. If I recall correctly (I've not played it), it makes some really serious changes to the core rules that would take a cloned system to support. I looked at trying to do a file for that at one point. But what you describe for the different variations on humans would almost require separate Race records. I don't think I'd want to try to cram them all into a single record.

That being said, we do offer a couple of mechanisms to handle this kind of thing, Factions and Groups. They're tailor-made for just that kind of thing. Only catch is that they usually get used early and there's just the two. But I've seen some really creative use with multiple sets. You could use one for sub-race and populate it accordingly by Race.
You mention the way other game systems in HeroLab are configured. Out of curiosity, which system are you seeing a player-level Race tab in? Pathfinder uses a single drop-down list for Race, if memory serves. Ours is at least always visible, not hidden on a background tab.

Ok.. so I again want to stress that while I will be using some of the Shaintar edges, weapons and stuff, I will not be using the base setting material as I already have a pre-existing world. My example for that was purely as an example.


I will agree that on the simple cases, Factions and Groups are a possible use for the sub race, but as you mentioned, they are the only two and other things sometimes take up those slots. For my example in my personal campaign, the Faction is a deity list and this is important for me to limit powers.

As for the other game systems, I have not tried Pathfinder since purchasing HL 3-4 years ago(used it for a one shot Pathfinder Society scenario(beginners box, not the full game). I will go check it out shortly though. The example I refer to which as a very detailed race tab would be D&D 4E.

Side Note: I just loaded PF and someone PLEASE tell me how to change and get rid of the default aweful blue background.. the light tan one on Pathfinder is FAR, FAR, FAR better. But I digress!


So, even in Pathfinder, Race while not on a separate tab, it has multiple sub features. Open up the editor and check the race subtab. It has a massive number of properties. A perfect example of the type of thing which would be nice to have available.

Choose Half-Orc.. there is a dropdown for +2 Ability to one Ability Score.

Choose Gnome... there is a dropdown for "Obsessive"(whatever that is), but in this case there is no value

Choose Human.. there is a dropdown for +2 Ability to one Ability Score.

Now check out D&D 4E's race:

When you choose a race, there is a dropdown for +2 to Ability AND that choice of which ability is PER RACE. So Dwarves get Str or Wis, Elves get Int or Wis, etc

If you choose DragonBorn(one of the creatures I am trying to add to my SW campaign BTW), you get:

the choice to +2 ability for either Str or Con AND choice of Dragonborn racial power(I am not offering this choice FTR), either Fear or DragonBreath(this is the one I am using). If you choose Fear, you are done. But if you choose Dragonbreath, you then have ANOTHER choice(dropdown) for type which is Str, Con, or Dex. There is also ANOTHER choice for Breath Weapon type which defaults to fire, but has the choice of fire, elec, acid, cold, etc.

Drow have a drop down for Darkfire(choice of 3 possible ability scores).

Now, I don't know how much overlap there is in the backed fields which store this. I suspect that the choice of DragonBreath ability score is the same backed field used by the Drow Darkfire field with different possible lists loaded at runtime for which are valid abilities to pick to link them.



This is why I am a bit confused as I would think that all of those things are done 100% within the xml coding with no hard coded stuff in the Herolab runtime to control what is and is not available. If that were the case, Herolab would be much less useful in adding new game systems dynamically. But, heck, I don't know the entire system inside and out. The point really being that those are examples of the types of customization I would like eventually built into the default SW buildout for those who need a bit of extra customization either because one setting needs it OR because their home campaign needs it.

Take a look at the editor for the D&D 4E Dragonborn(copy Race). There is a field named Ability Bonus Choices. Click edit. There is then a edit box with a generic thing named "fRPlusAb" which has some type of linkage to all 6 abilities and then the user could click edit and add/remove/change the checkboxes for their race as needed in this case.

Then on the Race Features tab(our analogy would be Racial Properties), if you copy the Dragon Breath one, you will see some fields for "List of Text Items" and "Initial Item"(I assume there is a script somewhere which makes this the default choice).

Here is my thought, I would wonder if perhaps since Savage Worlds was added really early on in HL's life cycle, we perhaps are living within a box which no longer needs to be as small as it currently is. Perhaps there were limitations at the time the initial data files were built which no longer exists and other game data files utilized those new features while the SW datafiles stayed static.

This reminds me of the this old story:
A little girl was watching her mother prepare the ham for Thanksgiving dinner. She noticed that her mother cut off a portion of the end of the ham before putting it in the pan.
“Why do you cut that part off, Mama?” the little girl asked.
“Well, that’s a good question. This is the way my mother taught me to do it, I guess. She always did it this way. Ask her,” her mother replied.
So the little girl went to the grandmother. “Grandma,” she said. “Why do you cut off the end of the ham before you bake it?”
“Well, dear,” she said. “That is the way I saw my mother do it time after time. Ask your great-grandmother.”
So the little girl dutifully goes to ask her great-grandmother. With a little laugh her great-grandmother replies, “Oh, that’s easy. It wouldn’t fit in my pan.”

Sometimes we do things out of habit or tradition, not stopping to think if it makes sense. Most of us pick up many habits from our parents, some good and some bad. Every now and then it might be a good idea to look at the way we do things to see if it really makes sense. And if the answer is no, then we need to give ourselves permission to make changes. We need to teach our children to avoid doing something “just because it is what everybody is doing,” but to question if it is the right thing to do.


Now, I don't know for sure what is an is not possible, but it seems to me that having to have LW make code changes for each game system to support such things would be a very bad way for them to code the application which is why I think that this is NOT a limitation of the software, but of the way the data files were developed and then maintained over time. Ie, are we limited because of the HL code or are we limiting because we don't know how?

Hopefully, you don't fine my response confrontational, or accusatory, or just plain rude as that's not the way I meant it, I am really trying to understand why(other than the potentially large amount of time required which I understand) we could not benefit from some of the other games more complex configuration abilities.

[CapedCrusader]

Zarlor, now that is just weird and a half. Where the hell is that checkbox? Perhaps one of the last couple of changes interfered with that. Really odd. I'll take a look.

[CapedCrusader]

And, as I said, the other game system have it easier. SW has to be a lot more flexible. Pathfinder just has to support elves and dwarves, and has to support a lot more detail. SW has to support starships, super powers, and everything in between. Pathfinder also has a Race tab, and then almost a dozen sub-tabs to manage Races. With a much smaller pool of Races to deal with, they can customize more closely. I mean, how many are just variations on elf? We have to support cyberware, robotics, and lasers along with the magic swords. Everything we add for one thing has to be removed for another thing.

While not truly apples and oranges, it comes close.

[zarlor]

Zarlor, now that is just weird and a half. Where the hell is that checkbox? Perhaps one of the last couple of changes interfered with that. Really odd. I'll take a look.

I have never had something I've previously done simply disappear from any of my stuff! (Just completely ignore that Stone and a Hard Place seem to no longer exist in my current version of the DLR... just move along, nothing to see there.);)

Good to know I'm not just losing my mind... or at least not moreso than it already is. Thanks for checking into it!

[CapedCrusader]

OK, found it. Through a weird quirk of file dates, one required change wasn't included. It'll go out with the quick fix.

FYI - on the quick fix. I am trying to get the Interface Zero setting file finished as much as possible before letting that one out, in case I need to make changes to support IZ2. There's a LOT of material here.

[jfrazierjr]

And, as I said, the other game system have it easier. SW has to be a lot more flexible. Pathfinder just has to support elves and dwarves, and has to support a lot more detail. SW has to support starships, super powers, and everything in between. Pathfinder also has a Race tab, and then almost a dozen sub-tabs to manage Races. With a much smaller pool of Races to deal with, they can customize more closely. I mean, how many are just variations on elf? We have to support cyberware, robotics, and lasers along with the magic swords. Everything we add for one thing has to be removed for another thing.

While not truly apples and oranges, it comes close.

Ok, so i am still not quite getting it, but I have a possible reason which might fit with what you have said. Here is a scenario, tell me if this is true or not:

Each game system can have a maximum of x dropdowns, x text fields, x popups, etc. The game system could have the drop downs associated to any parent object as needed and each parent object could have as many dropdowns as require so long as the sum of all dropdowns is does not exceed x.


From what I can assume since I have only spent a very small amount of time(if any) looking at most of the editor tabs is that MOST of the 40+ tabs in the editor have dropdown fields assign to them and that the combination of all of those equal or exceed the maximum threshold defined by x above. This is what prevents adding dropdowns for race. Contrast that with Pathfinder where there are a LOT less tabs overall, but each tab has access to a number of dropdowns, but combined they do not exceed x.

So... is that a true statement of how the actual runtime engine deals with fields within a game system?

ok, so if this is true, I seem to think I have seen mention of the Edge with Bootstrapped Weapon/Armor being deprecated? If that is the case, would that free up the fields which currently reside in those tabs for use in other places? Assuming that is true, are there already plans for those fields being required in other locations which might prevent them from being used on Races?

[CapedCrusader]

OK, I think I can see two area of confusion in our communication:

There's a difference between the player interface and the editor. When I talk about limits on menus and such, I am talking about the player interface. Where it's set up so the player would make choices about the Race on the character record itself, affecting only that character.

I think you are mostly referring to the editor interface, where the Race record itself is modified, affecting all uses of that Race.

Am I right? If so, that's confusion #1. We are jumping back and forth between interfaces and they are different.

I think confusion #2 lies in that Races are constructed differently in Savage Worlds, code-wise. In the other systems, Races have a number of set attributes. Most of the various drop-downs and field entries are attributes of the Race record. In Savage Worlds, everything is bootstrapped onto the Race record.

That being said, let me look into adding some more user-friendly ways to add bootstraps to Race. I can see that Pathfinder has a few that deal directly with adding bootstraps. I might be able to add buttons to add Edges, Hindrances, Properties, and Abilities.

[Paragon]

That would be a nice timesaver if nothing else.

[jfrazierjr]

OK, I think I can see two area of confusion in our communication:

There's a difference between the player interface and the editor. When I talk about limits on menus and such, I am talking about the player interface. Where it's set up so the player would make choices about the Race on the character record itself, affecting only that character.

I think you are mostly referring to the editor interface, where the Race record itself is modified, affecting all uses of that Race.

Am I right? If so, that's confusion #1. We are jumping back and forth between interfaces and they are different.

Well, partially but not completely.



I think confusion #2 lies in that Races are constructed differently in Savage Worlds, code-wise. In the other systems, Races have a number of set attributes. Most of the various drop-downs and field entries are attributes of the Race record. In Savage Worlds, everything is bootstrapped onto the Race record.

Ok, so I am confused here. Perhaps I just don't have enough time "hands on" with HeroLab(I really am trying to learn and not be a PITA for you, I just don't understand). Again, checking (in the editor in my case), it appears that the approach is not significantly different, though perhaps a bit more complex.

For example, I opened 4e and then the editor. I then opened the Race tab in the editor and copy Dragonborn(since this is functionally the example I am trying to handle in many respects). This is in ddi_races.dat.

Checking out the bootstraps, I find. the following(I cut the description to minimize space more):

<thing id="rDragonbor" name="Dragonborn" description=" " compset="Race" uniqueness="unique">
<fieldval field="racFlavor" value="Proud, honorable warriors, born from the blood of an ancient dragon god."/>
<fieldval field="racCha" value="2"/>
<fieldval field="racHtMin" value="74"/>
<fieldval field="racHtMax" value="80"/>
<fieldval field="racWtMin" value="220"/>
<fieldval field="racWtMax" value="320"/>
<fieldval field="racSpeed" value="6"/>
<tag group="User" tag="StdRace"/>
<tag group="Size" tag="Medium"/>
<tag group="SkillBonus" tag="skHistory"/>
<tag group="SkillBonus" tag="skIntimida"/>
<bootstrap thing="lanDraconi"></bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="fRPlusAb">
<autotag group="RaceBonus" tag="attrCon"/>
<autotag group="RaceBonus" tag="attrStr"/>
</bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="lanCommon"></bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="pRacDraBre"></bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="pRacDragon"></bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="fRDrDraHer"></bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="fRDrDraFur"></bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="fRDrDraRac"></bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="drgBrthTyp"></bootstrap>
</thing>

Yes, some of these things are defined as a child of Race and are built in to race directly, so that EVERY Race gets them such as the fRPlusAb, but the exact value is defined(via the autotag) so that some races could pick between Str or Con, other races could pick between Int or Wis.

Others are simple bootstraps such as the fRDrDraRac(RacialFeat is or should be analogous to our RacialProp).

<thing id="fRDrDraRac" name="Dragonborn Racial Power" description="When you select dragonborn as your character&apos;s race, choose one of the following powers. Your dragonborn character gains that power." compset="RaceFeat">
<fieldval field="usrCandid1" value="thingid.pRacDraBre | thingid.pRacDragon"/>
<tag group="Hide" tag="Special"/>
</thing>


Since this goes into a field named usrCandid1, I ASSUME that this is one of a number of possible drop downs available. In this case, the end user would select from either Breath Weapon or Dragonborn Fear and would get those powers(similar to our Powers...). Additionally, in some way, if the chosen power on the race is Breath Weapon, a NEW(well hidden and not showing) field is prompts for Breath Weapon and gives a list of 3 possible attributes which are the "source" for the Dragon Breath.

<thing
id="drgBrthTyp"
name="Breath Type"
compset="RaceFeat"
description="Choose the type of damage your breath weapon causes.">
<fieldval field="usrSelect" value="Fire"/>
<arrayval field="usrArray" index="0" value="Acid"/>
<arrayval field="usrArray" index="1" value="Cold"/>
<arrayval field="usrArray" index="2" value="Fire"/>
<arrayval field="usrArray" index="3" value="Lightning"/>
<arrayval field="usrArray" index="4" value="Poison"/>
<tag group="Hide" tag="Special"/>
<eval index="1" phase="Setup" priority="10000"><![CDATA[
~set our dragon breath power as the focus, for convenience
perform hero.childfound[pRacDraBre].setfocus
doneif (state.isfocus = 0)

~delete all keywords in our list
var i as number
for i = 0 to 4
perform focus.deletestr["DamageType." & field[usrArray].arraytext[i]]
next

~assign the new keyword
perform focus.assignstr["DamageType." & field[usrSelect].text]
]]></eval>
</thing>


So I am a bit confused when you say Savage Worlds does things differently from other settings files, or perhaps am not seeing the forest for the trees(which might be why i was under the impression some of your previous statements might have "implied" a maximum number of dropdowns per game system for example).



That being said, let me look into adding some more user-friendly ways to add bootstraps to Race. I can see that Pathfinder has a few that deal directly with adding bootstraps. I might be able to add buttons to add Edges, Hindrances, Properties, and Abilities.

Thank you. In a PERFECT world, I would really like the editor for Race(and an actual tab for races in the actual builder to have many more options. Examples(using 4e as a very rough example):


Skill Bonuses, honestly, in a perfect world, this would be a complex popup, but I don't know how much or how long it would take to build such a thing if it were even possible:
Each skill from the compset would be listed in a radio selection
One a skill were selected, you would then be able to select a die type from either a drop down or radio button list.
bootstrap the skill so that it shows up automatically and is removed if the race is somehow changed
offset the cost as this would be part of the racial package and should NOT count against skills taken

Abilities, just like above for skills
a few Menu #1 Tag Expression, Menu #2 Tag Expression for custom stuff the user wants to do.(If I am totally not understanding how this works, please let me know!), but I assume one could define a set of subraces with a new tag first and then point one of these types of fields to it as the source data for the drop down.)


Yes, this is a BIT slower than opening the bootstrap popup and picking the thing you want, but for NEW GM's trying to build out their races, this would be visual and MUCH easier to deal with.

Of course, I realize that this would just be the editor part, so a new Race tab(or popup or whatever honestly) would also have to be created. As well, outputs could need to be updated in some way to account for these various optional things. Yes, some games in SW won't use these things and if so, they would remain hidden, but when needed, they show up based upon the GM.

More importantly, I realize this is not a 2 week change(assuming it is all technically possible) and would be a fairly large project(in which case, others might be able to assist in the coding with the right knowledge! and this would be a win/win for multiple people). To start with, the easy test case might be a popup box showing all skills loaded in a radio button(or perhaps a list of check boxes) and bootstrap the selected values for free at d6.

btw, if anything I said was talking out of my ass because I don't understand how it all works, please let me know.

[CapedCrusader]

The use of UsrCandid1 is part of the RaceFeat component in Pathfinder. It has the rest of the back-end structure to handle the menu. Savage World's Race component does not have that. UsrSelect for the breath weapon array is the same, it's supported in RaceFeat (PF) but not Race (SW). It's part of those differences I was talking about.

Part of the problem with the Skill bonus thing - SW doesn't have just one Skill list to deal with like the others. Every Setting has it's own additions. And in the Editor you can see them all, there are no Setting filters, it's the other way around. It assumes you want to be able to designate something as available in more than one source, so the relationship works the other way. It can be a real problem. I have over 2 dozen different Setting files loaded. There are 3-4 versions of some Skills. Sometimes it takes a couple of tries to get the right Skill. It's part of the price we pay for flexibility. I'll see what I can get away with. I've asked the head engineer what's available.

[jfrazierjr]

The use of UsrCandid1 is part of the RaceFeat component in Pathfinder. It has the rest of the back-end structure to handle the menu. Savage World's Race component does not have that. UsrSelect for the breath weapon array is the same, it's supported in RaceFeat (PF) but not Race (SW). It's part of those differences I was talking about.

I guess I still don't understand. The way it appears from examples I have seen is that UI fields in the editor can be re-used. They are defined in components.core at the BASE level(meaning all possible fields are defined first. I am using 4E as my baseline for finding things specifically because the source files ARE available to use the end user unlike Pathfinder(which I assume you might have access to given your position).

Then, each component which wishes to utilize said field has to then define that field as belonging to the parent thing(race, edge, skill or whatever wants to use usrSelect via an inheritance mechanism of some sort.

I know(well, suspect) this as the <Field id="usrSelect"/> is then reused in multiple locations to display a dropdown(classes, feats, races, etc) in 4E. Savage Worlds appears to only use usrSelect in edges, but I can't see why it cannot be defined as a child object of Race, Skills, or any other top level thing you as the core data file developer determine it needs to belong to.

It's not supported because the core data files have not made it be supported as a child field for Race, or Skill or whatever, not because it's not technically infeasible. Or perhaps I am totally misunderstanding just how extensible HeroLab actually is.




Part of the problem with the Skill bonus thing - SW doesn't have just one Skill list to deal with like the others. Every Setting has it's own additions. And in the Editor you can see them all, there are no Setting filters, it's the other way around. It assumes you want to be able to designate something as available in more than one source, so the relationship works the other way. It can be a real problem. I have over 2 dozen different Setting files loaded. There are 3-4 versions of some Skills. Sometimes it takes a couple of tries to get the right Skill. It's part of the price we pay for flexibility. I'll see what I can get away with. I've asked the head engineer what's available.

Thank you ! This was the level of detail I was really looking for in an answer and this makes perfect sense. It's still annoying and I really hope your developer can find a solution without a code(ie, runtime code) change which I know won't happen for quite a while. I am seriously hoping that perhaps there might be a way to filter by source, but I also understand that Savage Worlds is the really odd thing because there are so many duplicates due to various source overrides.

I know it's frustrating for me to see 5 copies of a skill in the editor, but that's something i could live with, but as an end user simply building a character, it would be unacceptable. How much control do you have in those popup dialog windows? Since there may not be a way to filter, can said dialogs contain more than the two columns(I assume it's possible)? ie, what if there was column for source? I know it would not be a perfect solution by a longshot, but it might be workable. Is there a sort feature available? If both extra column AND sort were available, that would be even that much closer as all for a setting would be grouped. Again, not a prefect solution of course, but perhaps others would like to pipe in on this limitation to see if it would be worth pursuing(assuming it works that is with those features).


Another question along those same lines, is there the ability to make a dropdown and dynamically load the values to the list of possible values? I have no idea if this is possible or not in the hero lab script code, but if it were, we could loop over the selected sources, and then the skills in said sources, and build the dropdown dynamically. of course, I would guess that this feature does not exist, but again, it never hurts to ask.


Thank you for putting up with my questions and extremely long examples.

[CapedCrusader]

Ah, I see. No, that's not usually the way it works. Each field definition is specific to that component. The fields aren't re-used, although sometimes field names are re-used. Now, the usrCandid1 field is part of the UserSelect component, as is the usrSelect field. That's currently only used in the Edges and Racial Properties component sets. It'd have to be added to Race.

And, no, I can't see the Pathfinder code objects, just Savage Worlds. If I asked, they'd probably let me have a set, I've never asked. And if memory serves, you can clone a game system and it creates an un-compiled set of files for you to modify.

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying that, at present, those objects don't exist on Race because it's never been asked for. Setting up a Race is something that's done once at the beginning of a campaign and then never really touched again, for the most part. We've never really spent a bunch of effort on it because it's not something people have asked for. I create them all the time for Setting files and it's never really been an issue. The Races usually get created with the Setting. I'm used to going through the bootstrap button on Race and adding things that way. There's a sub-menu on that form to filter by object type (Racial Properties, Racial Abilities, etc) and it gives you places to add tags and field values for those that need it.

One of the Setting files I am working on (it's way down on the list, but it's there) is Star Wars. With a TON of alien races. Having a simplified interface to build Races has merit. It's just going to take a bit more than simply adding the edit objects. I've not done a bootstrap editing object in the editor yet, and I'm not sure how to code it. I've asked the fine folks at LW for some info.

[CapedCrusader]

I was able to add some new buttons to the Editor... You'll still have to add tags and such for Skilldie on Skills and any additional info on each bootstrap, but this'll make it easier to add multiple Racial Properties, Racial Abilities, Edges, Hindrances and Skills to Race, plus some other goodies. I added some of these same buttons to a few other places. (Creatures, Factions, and Groups)

[zarlor]

I was able to add some new buttons to the Editor... You'll still have to add tags and such for Skilldie on Skills and any additional info on each bootstrap, but this'll make it easier to add multiple Racial Properties, Racial Abilities, Edges, Hindrances and Skills to Race, plus some other goodies. I added some of these same buttons to a few other places. (Creatures, Factions, and Groups)

Nice! I know one of my requests has been to improve some things to make the Editor easier to use, but that's a pretty nebulous request. These kinds of specific changes, though, are more of the kinds of things that I think will be really helpful in making things a little less intimidating for folks new to using the Editor. I just haven't had the great ideas on specific ways, like this, to do that so seeing other folks come up with them and being implemented is really awesome. Thanks CC!

[dartnet]

I would love to see support for Iconic frameworks and heroic paths from Rifts because I have a feeling that we are going to see more of these soon.

[jfrazierjr]

I was able to add some new buttons to the Editor... You'll still have to add tags and such for Skilldie on Skills and any additional info on each bootstrap, but this'll make it easier to add multiple Racial Properties, Racial Abilities, Edges, Hindrances and Skills to Race, plus some other goodies. I added some of these same buttons to a few other places. (Creatures, Factions, and Groups)


Thanks, I look forward to seeing just what your work has produced and what the specifics are. For some context, I have no issue dealing with manually bootstrapping things, but where possible, the things which are normal and logical should be easy and adding an attribute for free at d6 to a race is so common that every core rulebook race has one(IIRC), so making that one case easier for non technical people should be as easy as possible.

Did you happen to add one or more text and drop down fields to the race component? I know I had originrally suggested a Race tab, but the more I play with HeroLab, I realized that all of the OTHER race specific stuff(example, All Thumbs, Agile, Low Light Vision, etc for elves) all show up on the Special tab. In the short term, this would be an acceptable solution for the presentation of any setting specific text fields and/or dropdowns required for a given race rather than a new specific tab for the race related stuff(though, it would be nice as a long term option to be developed as time permits).


One thing i would like to also suggest on the Special tab is to break things down into some separate groupings at some time in the future. All of the special traits are listed one after another and it would be nice to have these categorized. Since you have mentioned Pathfinder a few times, I refer to their Background Tab(for others, this contains Race, Alignment, Diety drop downs as well as sub group headers for Faction, Alternate Racial Traits(not sure what this is since I don't play PF), etc.

http://i65.tinypic.com/o0pic0.png

I don't know what else comes up there, but IMHO, i would be nice if the Racial stuff were separated from the Bennies(the only thing I know shows up there at this point) in some way. Again, this is a long term request and not critical for the current feature(ie, get to it when you can).


-----------------------------------------------------

Did you happen to have any luck with the whole player choose their free skill at d6 type thing? I know you mentioned having to check with some developers on that since there are so many overridden skills and currently, it will just show them all including ones not selected for that setting. I really hope this is something that can be figured out as it's a semi common race feature.

For the record, exactly how would you do this TODAY with the current code?
I assume you would have to create an edge, bootstrap it with the proper dropdown list of skills for said setting entered by each author, and then script each drop down list to assign the to the actual skill manually, finally crediting back the edge so it does not count against the points available during creation? Is that about the gist of it in rough terms?

[jfrazierjr]

Another thing I would like to see is a change to:

<procedure id="Money" scripttype="none"><![CDATA[
~declare variables that are used to communicate with our caller
var moneyvalue as number
var money as string

~invoke the MoneyBare procedure to format the value
call MoneyBare

~prepend a "$" on the value
money = "$" & money
]]></procedure>

And the places which call it. Here, the "$" is hard coded. I would like to have this available somewhere as an input variable to this procedure. Perhaps as a setting adjustment as a field? I it would also be exceptional if there could be another field for currency image as well.

if currency image, use that
if currency sign supplied by setting, use that
else, use "$" as the fallback.

[CapedCrusader]

"Did you happen to have any luck with the whole player choose their free skill at d6 type thing?"

This is one I don't really understand. Why not just give them the extra build points and let them choose an extra Skill? And, no, as far as I know this is NOT semi-common. A specific Skill or list of a couple of Skills, yes, but not *any* Skill at d6. What's the point? What Setting/Race does that? And like I said, just use a free Edge with a menu to identify which Skill they chose.

There's only so much we can do for edge cases.

[CapedCrusader]

I'll see what I can do about the currency symbol next time.

[Paragon]

"Did you happen to have any luck with the whole player choose their free skill at d6 type thing?"

This is one I don't really understand. Why not just give them the extra build points and let them choose an extra Skill? And, no, as far as I know this is NOT semi-common. A specific Skill or list of a couple of Skills, yes, but not *any* Skill at d6. What's the point? What Setting/Race does that? And like I said, just use a free Edge with a menu to identify which Skill they chose.

There's only so much we can do for edge cases.

As an example, the Synths in Broken Earth do that; they're basically neutral Terminators (cyborgs with a metal endoskeleton and computer brain) and it represents their core programming.

I did end up just giving the skill points, but as I noted there's one degenerate condition where it doesn't work right: if someone decides to build a character at the start with all D4 skills to get the most bang for the buck out of the difference between the yield of advances and initial skill points in buying new skills. I can't imagine someone doing that is common, but its there.

[CapedCrusader]

It would be relatively easy to set up a validation to check and ensure they have at least one Skill at d6...

[jfrazierjr]

I'll see what I can do about the currency symbol next time.

Thanks CC. I duplicated the system to get the stripped down version, but unfortunately, it was not quite stripped down enough to be minus the money formatting thing, so I assume I would have no way to override something built into the compiled .hlz file such as the procedures(right???). I am a bit more dubious if an image could be utilized(would likely have to be best practice to make it a specific size such as 50x50 or whatever.), but if that could be made to work, so much the better!(I am not holding my breath for this last part, but will be pleasantly surprised if you manage it). I could probably even knock up a simple sample png or bmp of a gold coin if you want to even take a stab at that part of the feature request.

[jfrazierjr]

I'll see what I can do about the currency symbol next time.

Ok, I am old and have some memory issues. I looked, but could not find what I THOUGHT I saw around a month ago where you mentioned having changed the procedure to let setting file authors override the "$" currency symbol with their own.

Did I just imagine reading that on the forums or am I just having issues finding it? If the latter, is that in the current release from a few days ago or in an upcoming release? If current, how exactly do I edit this(I checked the settings tab), would I need to do this via a script to edit a variable or updating a field on the editor somewhere?

<--- confused

[CapedCrusader]

Well, the hero field is called acCshSymbl.
The tag is Hero.CashBackwd.
I don't have the test scripts that I wrote to test it handy, but simply assign a new text value to herofield[acCshSymbl].text and you're good to go. If you want to move the symbol to after the number, add the tag. The timing isn't really an issue, PreTraits/5000 seems to work fine. If you were playing a fantasy game where it was all based in gold pieces, you might do it like so:

herofield[acCshSymbl].text = " gp"
perform hero.assign[Hero.CashBackwd]

[jfrazierjr]

Well, the hero field is called acCshSymbl.
The tag is Hero.CashBackwd.
I don't have the test scripts that I wrote to test it handy, but simply assign a new text value to herofield[acCshSymbl].text and you're good to go. If you want to move the symbol to after the number, add the tag. The timing isn't really an issue, PreTraits/5000 seems to work fine. If you were playing a fantasy game where it was all based in gold pieces, you might do it like so:

herofield[acCshSymbl].text = " gp"
perform hero.assign[Hero.CashBackwd]


Ok.. thanks.. I was concerned that I dreamed up that whole thing. I assume this is in the current release? Would I put this on a setting eval script?

EDIT: yep, was just able to test it and this worked a treat. Thanks!

[jfrazierjr]

I was able to add some new buttons to the Editor... You'll still have to add tags and such for Skilldie on Skills and any additional info on each bootstrap, but this'll make it easier to add multiple Racial Properties, Racial Abilities, Edges, Hindrances and Skills to Race, plus some other goodies. I added some of these same buttons to a few other places. (Creatures, Factions, and Groups)

Ok, so how much work would it be to add something akin to Racial Powers as a valid field on the Race object and and a NON AB related PP field also on the Race object(defaults to zero/empty) as well as only visible on the "abilities" or "basic" section of the character IF that field has a non zero value, perhaps linked to the one or more racial powers?


Specifically, I am trying to implement(Page 4 from the Fantasy Companion, bottom of "+2 Abilities"):

Use of a single racial Power (the character has 5 Power Points usable solely for this Power that recharge at the rate of 1 per hour and are unaffected by Rapid Recharge; Power Points from other sources cannot be used with this power; psionic-type powers use Smarts, physical ones use Vigor as the arcane skill)


In the most nature way for end users. I don't really so much care about how much work it is for me(with in reason) editing the datafiles/editor only that the character builder AND pdf/output sheets can provide correct and useful information. I am trying really hard to AVOID cloning the game system for my customization, but there are various other reasons I might end up doing that anyway(but still, trying to avoid doing that).

My issue with adding this into a racial ability is quite simply the limitation on how those things get formatted, one of which is the VERY short description(Summary Text) with no wrapping and the pdf output sheet.

[zarlor]

[snip]

My issue with adding this into a racial ability is quite simply the limitation on how those things get formatted, one of which is the VERY short description(Summary Text) with no wrapping and the pdf output sheet.

As a side note if you are looking for a sheet that will print more than just summary text I was able to at least create the template for an extended sheet in this thread (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=45759&highlight=extended+sheet), if that helps any.

[jfrazierjr]

As a side note if you are looking for a sheet that will print more than just summary text I was able to at least create the template for an extended sheet in this thread (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=45759&highlight=extended+sheet), if that helps any.

Honestly, I forgot I already had that downloaded. We just had our second session and I am trying to build everything out so that my players can get their characters built in HL so I can have a copy of them(racial properties/abilities where a group building effort finished in the last session).

This is a new system for ALL of us except one guy who who has played several hundred game sessions in SW(but it's been a long while), including with some of the SW game setting authors from years back.

I think in the long term I will likely end up having to clone the entire game system and build/rebuild much of this stuff from scratch(for example, I think I want all skills shown on output so the players know what's available and what's not).

[Tekkmage]

Both the native character sheet and the one referenced have problems with skills that are too numerous or with names that are long. It would be nice if some time was spent on LWD's end to clean this up. It feels like a slapped together product where the Pathfinder output is much better.

[zarlor]

Well, the referenced one is just a modified version of the base sheet. I was able to figure out how to get the full descriptions to print out instead of just the summaries, but it's a really confusing format to me so I consider myself lucky to have even gotten that far. In any case it is in now way a sheet put out by Lone Wolf, so essentially they can only be "blamed" for the formatting of the built-in one. That being said, if they do clean it up more I can always use that to try to make those changes into the one I posted as well.

I will say that I do have a request for enhancement some number of pages back for a user-friendly version of that sheet that we could modify, or some way to easily output to a form-fillable pdf or the like, but I'm pretty sure both of those things would require a major programming effort. And, to be honest, we've discussed here many time that we're pretty certain most of the monetary value for LWD is in all of the stuff they are selling for Pathfinder, and as such it will always be a higher priority for development efforts than any of the other systems they support, so I consider that kind of thing to be a bit pie-in-the-sky.

Fixing issues with too many skill or long names, however, might be more easily fixed by them, though. In fact I'd almost consider that to be more of a bug fix request rather than a enhancement.

[CapedCrusader]

Both the native character sheet and the one referenced have problems with skills that are too numerous or with names that are long. It would be nice if some time was spent on LWD's end to clean this up. It feels like a slapped together product where the Pathfinder output is much better.

I'm afraid to do anything about this I need specific examples. So I can use the example to fix it. I am now working on the next update, so now is the time to get it to me.

[zarlor]

I'm not positive of Tekmage's issue, per se, but I did test by adding 25 Knowledge skills to an otherwise blank character and the skills did roll over properly to a 2nd page, so I'm not sure what the issue is there. However I also then put in a Custom Agility Skill and give it the description of "Custom Skill With a Really, Really Long Name123456" and if I do a Print Preview it shows "Custom Agility Skill: Custom Skill With a " so a name that long doesn't line wrap or anything, apparently, so I think I was able to at least reproduce that part of the problem.

[CapedCrusader]

OK, let's not get ridiculous, here. Let's discuss actual skill names.
What I can see perhaps doing is removing that "Custom Agility Skill: " prefix on the printed sheet and the Skill list display. That'll help. We certainly shouldn't need to allow for 50 characters for a Skill name. Let's be reasonable.

[zarlor]

Well, I don't know what Tekkmage needs it for, though, he'd have to chime in on that, I was just trying to reproduce the issue. It hadn't otherwise been an issue for me personally. Although I supposed if HL is allowing for a 50 character skill name presumably you'd want it to be able to print all 50 instead of cutting off at 42?

I'd never used a custom skill like that before, though, but I would agree that the "Custom Whatever Skill:" part is probably pretty redundant. It may not show what the skill is based on without that but I don't think the other skills do that on the printout anyway. Then again appending an initial in parenthesis for those might not be a bad idea, so something like "Athletics (A)", for example. It doesn't come up much, mostly just when leveling up the skills, but there are a few other situations where linked skills might be affected by something where that might be useful to have.

[Tekkmage]

I have the wrapping issue with more than 10 characters on a skill.

I solved the issue by creating my own sheets in excel. I created a new thread (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?p=256679#post256679).

[zarlor]

It's cutting off at only 10 characters? Can you maybe link a pdf printout here? I'll definitely check out your sheet (although I'll have to see if it will work with Open Office since I pretty much refuse to use Excel) but it'll still be helpful if there is an issue on the default sheets to see if maybe CC can fix it up for us.

[CapedCrusader]

Oh, I fixed this. Custom Skills will be able have up to 36 characters, and only the customized name will show... How's that?

[dartnet]

Could we add support for Heroic Journey table rolls like the ones for Rifts? They could be treated like Edges with a separate resource pool, and a table field (like edge type).

[CapedCrusader]

Unfortunately, no. We can't support the Heroic Journey tables without doing a full treatment for Rifts. And, to my knowledge, that is not happening.

[TCArknight]

Any word on multiple Arcane Backgrounds?

[dartnet]

Okay then can we add something that handles "extra" things for SW characters? Like the Veteran O' the Weird West. There are a ton of settings that use these kind of elements. Using VotWW as an example:

A hero takes VotWW and it populates the Extra field like the Linguist Edge dose for Languages. The user sees she has one slot from the Extra filed and she sees from the Validation report that she must select it from the Vet O'WW category. She picks the Extra that fits the card her GM had her draw. Later she as now a Harrowed she counts Coup on a monster and gets an item (a monster scalp) that gives her a slot that can be used to get her ability,

It is an easy add an would be useful for many settings outside of Rifts (Deadlands, Mars, and Interface Zero comes to mind)and if we get an official Rifts the basic work is done.

[zarlor]

Okay then can we add something that handles "extra" things for SW characters? Like the Veteran O' the Weird West. There are a ton of settings that use these kind of elements. Using VotWW as an example:

A hero takes VotWW and it populates the Extra field like the Linguist Edge dose for Languages. The user sees she has one slot from the Extra filed and she sees from the Validation report that she must select it from the Vet O'WW category. She picks the Extra that fits the card her GM had her draw. Later she as now a Harrowed she counts Coup on a monster and gets an item (a monster scalp) that gives her a slot that can be used to get her ability,

It is an easy add an would be useful for many settings outside of Rifts (Deadlands, Mars, and Interface Zero comes to mind)and if we get an official Rifts the basic work is done.

If it's easier to code to get it in I'm for this, but I would much prefer to see it added like an extra "Hindrances" tab that otherwise works exactly like Hindrances where they can be added from the Advances at no cost as a better way to include those things, like the VotWW stuff or Coup, etc., into a data file so they are selectable. Having a Custom entry there would also be very useful to implement what dartnet suggests above to just cover anything else not in a data file to at least get it noted on a sheet in a similar way.

This is definitely one of the things that's been on my wish list for a long time that I would love to see.

[dartnet]

Personally I would prefer to treat them more like Edges. So it doesn't get weird for NPCs.

[zarlor]

No, no, I don't mean list them like Hindrances, treat them like Hindrances are in the code. If I add an Edge through the Advances mechanic the character has to "pay" for it. Hindrances, OTOH, are free. They just wouldn't be called Hindrances (or Edges, for that matter, as either method would be confusing). "Extras" or "Specials" or something like that would be what they might be called, I was just thinking in terms of being able to take an existing mechanic and copying how it works wholesale with minor tweaks might accomplish adding it.

[jfrazierjr]

"Did you happen to have any luck with the whole player choose their free skill at d6 type thing?"

This is one I don't really understand. Why not just give them the extra build points and let them choose an extra Skill?

Let's just say for the sake of argument that some future pick requires the selected skill to be actually saved to the character during the character creation. As a simple example(for which I have no official setting to present!), pretend we have a race ability defined as thus:

Racial Ability(this word is the GENERIC use of the word, NOT the HeroLab scripting use of the word!)

Dwarves may choose either Knowledge (Armor Smithing), Knowledge (Arms Smithing), Knowledge (Brewing), Knowledge (Jeweler) during character creation. This skill begins at d6 with no point cost.



Edge - Racial Training (Dwarf, Seasoned):
Increase your racial Knowledge skill by one die type.



This may seem like a really stupid example, but once you start taking the the way skills are purchase when compared to the linked ability it really can make sense for stuff like this. Again, I have not seen this in any source since I really don't have or want much of the setting files, but the racial ability above exactly mirrors one in my home game and I can see created an edge just like the above but might not because of either the inability or the workarounds required in HeroLab to support it.

[TCArknight]

Would it be possible to add a "User Name" field to the Tracker component for display?

For example, Rifts has PPE and ISP for "Power Points". I'm using the trkPower for the actual value, but I'd like to display "PPE: 0 / 20" or "ISP: 0 / 20" instead of the default "Power Points: 0/20"

It seems like this would make it easier too when multiple backgrounds handling comes in....

[TCArknight]

Something else I think would be useful is adding a field for trPace to hold the running die size which could be modified based on Edges, etc.

Then, Pace could display like “Pace: 6 (Running d8)” or such...

[Zaknaefin]

Suggestions:

An adjustment that overrides an Edge not being a valid choice.

An adjustment that allows you to increase your languages known.

[Gatlin]

Is there a way to list gear items on the character sheet, underneath or indented under the container they are in, so you can see what items are stored where?

[TCArknight]

What is missing that would really be useful is a Hide.Edge / Hide.Hindrance tag and the exclusion of those on the Edges tab. This would allow users to have Edges or Hindrances that could not be seen on the normal Edges/Hindrances chooser but could be bootstrapped.

[TCArknight]

Abilities need to have an additional activation box for the InPlay tab with a User-Defined text for each (Right now, the name on the activation Is set to the Name of the Ability/Edge, etc).

[CapedCrusader]

The next update includes a Permanent Adjustment for Languages.

[TheMadPhoenix]

The thing I'd like to see is what book various information comes from to go look it up. For example if an edge or hindrance is from the CRB, then list it as from the Savage Worlds Deluxe Rulebook, if it's from Last Sons, list it there, etc. That way it's easier for a player to go back to the source for reference

[TCArknight]

Something else I think would be useful is adding a field for trPace to hold the running die size which could be modified based on Edges, etc.

Then, Pace could display like “Pace: 6 (Running d8)” or such...

What is missing that would really be useful is a Hide.Edge / Hide.Hindrance tag and the exclusion of those on the Edges tab. This would allow users to have Edges or Hindrances that could not be seen on the normal Edges/Hindrances chooser but could be bootstrapped.

Abilities need to have an additional activation box for the InPlay tab with a User-Defined text for each (Right now, the name on the activation Is set to the Name of the Ability/Edge, etc).

Any chance of any of these appearing soon? :)

[Danlewistn@hotmail.com]

Is it possible that you could give an option to enlarge font size. There is a lot of stuff where the font is just too small. And yes I do have a very current prescription on my glasses. :)

[zarlor]

You may be better off doing that from your OS. For example if you use Windows 10 you can right-click on your desktop and select "Display Settings" There is an item there for "Change the size of text, apps, and other items" which may be set to 100%, change it to, say 120% and see if that helps. I've had to do that on high resolution (like 4k) monitors because not everything scales well enough on their own and that can make a big difference.

[Danlewistn@hotmail.com]

It would be great to have some alternate character sheets that were smaller. When you are printing out non-character creatures, monsters, NPCs, it would be nice to have something that didn't print out on a full sheet. Easier to GM if they are in compact form. :)

[zarlor]

You kind of can. There's a spot were you can get it to give you a Stat Block, which is like the format you see in a book for an NPC or creature. You may have to copy and paste it from the box to print it out, but it's there.

[CapedCrusader]

Any chance of any of these appearing soon?

OK, Here's what I have so far:

1. I have added a Derived Trait for Running Die that you can turn on and off (defaults to off) and you can adjust through the Derived Trait Personal Adjustment. It will take a while for everything that adjusts Running Die to catch up with automatically adjusting this. And adjusting it acts like a die.

2. Hide.Edge and Hide.Hindrance tags and filters are set up and enabled on the main tab. These filters will perhaps need to be added to other places as well.

3. This third one is problematic. It would require two check boxes per ability on the InPlay tab where space is already at a premium. So, no action on this yet.

--- Core Updates ---
Stackable Armor now stacks correctly with standard armor rather than replacing it.
Cat, Small now has the description included.

--- Super Powers Companion updates ---
The updated 1st Edition villains are now included in the 2nd Edition stock villains files.
Super Skills cost has been corrected.

And I am still working, so there is more to come.

[CapedCrusader]

Oh, and...

Attack, Ranged now shows adjusted damage and range for the Enhanced Damage and Range modifications.

[dartnet]

Any chances that the new edition of the rule book coming out in a few months will be supported?

[CapedCrusader]

I have been in direct contact with Shane and he said he'd get me a copy as soon as possible so I can look at that very thing. Have you heard anything new about release dates and such? You are talking about the Black Edition, right? Assuming they are still calling it that...

[dartnet]

It's now Savage Worlds: Adventure Edition! or SWADE. You made me day sir.

[zarlor]

And no new news on actual release dates beyond the Kickstarter going off in October, so presumably no long after the Kickstarter you should be able to get at least the pre-release version if their other Kickstarters are any indication. So maybe early November? Then they usually go for a month of two for folks to provide feedback (crwodsourced editing!), fix things up or clarify them and then they'll send it off to the printers and post the finalized version. That's what their usual timeframe seems to be, anyway. I'd also add that it seems like big chunk of the major changes were already previewed in Flash Gordon so that should give you a good idea of what kinds of things may need to be done (or at least copied over from the Flash Gordon file. ;))

[Gatlin]

Is it possible to change the Athletics setting rule, that replaces climbing and swimming, from Vigor to Agility as it seems that SWADE will be using that attribute?

[CapedCrusader]

The current way it is set up is specific to a Setting. If this is the way SWADE will be doing it, we'll make some accommodation.

[Zaknaefin]

Some suggestions:

A "Custom Weapon" in each weapon section (Hand-Held, Ranged, etc.)
A "Custom Vehicle" in each vehicle section.
An adjustment to an item's weight.

[CapedCrusader]

Hmmm. Interesting. When I do the overhaul for the new edition, I think we can manage all of these.

[dartnet]

Support for skill focuses like in the up coming Freedom Squadron book. I can PM you the relevant info.

[TCArknight]

Has there been any info about multiple Arcane Background? That’s one piece for the Savage Rifts setting that’s driving me nuts......

[CapedCrusader]

Dang, I hate having to say this...

Support for multiple arcane backgrounds is not in the cards right now. It would require some fairly major changes that would affect all lines. And there are not enough Settings that need it, and no official Settings use it.

And if Skill Focuses are anything like Skill Specialization, they have the same problem only more severe. In order to support that we'd have to re-write everything from the ground up. It takes the entire model of Savage Worlds and turns it upside down. Everything would operate like Knowledge Skills. And anyone who has written a Setting File know what a pain those are. The entire game system code would need an complete overhaul, and it is even more complicated because each GM has their own specializations. There is no set list.

[salcor]

@CapedCrusader,

For the multiple arcane powers, is there a way to set up an acrane background that would allow for multiples of the same power, and allow the setting file write to identify what skills those power are tied to?

Salcor

[zarlor]

[snip]and no official Settings use it.

Well, Rifts is an official Setting so arguably one official setting does now have that. Not that I couldn't sympathize with the work required to implement it.

[dartnet]

And if Skill Focuses are anything like Skill Specialization, they have the same problem only more severe. In order to support that we'd have to re-write everything from the ground up. It takes the entire model of Savage Worlds and turns it upside down. Everything would operate like Knowledge Skills. And anyone who has written a Setting File know what a pain those are. The entire game system code would need an complete overhaul, and it is even more complicated because each GM has their own specializations. There is no set list.

There more like Languages.

[CapedCrusader]

And Languages present a different set of issues because there are multiple ways of handling them. lol

When I said Official, I mean officially released through Hero Lab.

[MattVG]

I apologize if this has already been requested, but is it possible to add a "Custom Monster" creation option to Savage Worlds in the same way some of the other systems like D&D 5e and Pathfinder include?

I'm finding myself having to create many creatures manually with the editor.

[CapedCrusader]

Running Die has been added as a Derived Trait. You'll be able to select it's display in the Configure Hero window.
The list of affected objects is as follows:
*Core
...Creature Abilities: Fleet-Footed (d8); Fleet-Footed (d10); Slow (Pace 4)
...Edges: Fleet-Footed
...Hindrances: Lame; Obese; One Leg
...Racial Properties: Severely Reduced Pace
*Fantasy Companion
...Creature Abilities: Shuffling Gait; Fleet-Footed (d12)
...Magic Items: Wolfskin Boots
*Horror Companion
...Creature Abilities: Scuttle; Lame; Obese; Shuffling Gait; Hop (Savage Jack); Extended Jump
*Sci-Fi Companion
...Creature Abilities: Fast; Leg Enhancements; Aquatic
...Cyberware: Leg Enhancement
...Edges: Heavy-G Worlder
...Modifications: Power Armor - Pace
...Racial Properties: Pace; Slow -2; Slow -4
...Robotics: Pace

Did I miss anything in the core material or Companions?

[TCArknight]

Is there a tag that will let an Arcane Power display on the Arcane Tab, but not let it be selectable from the chooser on that tab?

[CapedCrusader]

Hmmm... not at present. You mean for it to show up on the list greyed out or something?

[TCArknight]

That would work, but ideally they wouldn’t show up at all.

For Savage Rifts, the Mega-Powers are just Arcane Powers with a couple of extra tags. As is, they show as a selectable choice, when they should only be added to the hero when their normal Arcane Power is chosen. For example, the Armor Power conditionally bootstraps the Mega-Armor Power based on the hero having the Rifts.MegaPowerValid tag.

So:
1) Mega-Powers shouldn’t be visible for selection when selecting Arcane Powers
2) if the hero has the appropriate tag, the normal power as well as the bootstrapped Mega-Power should be visible on the Arcane tab under the Powers list

I know in the Pathfinder system as well as a couple of others, there’s something like a Hide.Selection tag for items that can’t be seen to directly purchase/select, but if the item is bootstrapped somehow then it shows on the appropriate table.

Does that help?

[CapedCrusader]

Ah, totally hidden from selection, then. I should be able to set something up.

[TCArknight]

Ah, totally hidden from selection, then. I should be able to set something up.

Thank you sir! Appreciate it! :)

[TCArknight]

Any eta on the hiding a selection? :) Right now, for the Mystic and Secondary powers in Rifts, I'm having to tag them with Helper.Foreign to exclude them from the normal Arcane Tab. This is apparently forcing the addition of a Helper.Gizmo and showing the couple of extra Skill/Point/Uses entries on each power listing. :)

I can probably work around it or just ignore it for now, but it's throwing off the validation entries if don't select something

[TCArknight]

Would it be possible to add the CanAdvance component to Racial Properties? Right now it's:
<compset
id="RacialProp">
<compref component="RacialProp"/>
<compref component="Ability"/>
<compref component="UserSelect"/>
<compref component="SpecialTab"/>
</compset>

If I understand things correctly, having <compref component="CanAdvance"/> added to that compset would allow an advance to add a Racial Property to a hero. Specifically, this is needed for Savage Rifts to handle the growth of a Dragon Hatchling and the selection of new racial abilities as it gains Advances.

I'm sure this would be useful in other datasets as well.

[TCArknight]

Ok, I know I’m asking a lot lately. :)

I would love to see things like the basic Cyberware, Power Armor, Robot, and Walker components and tabs opened up for use aside from having the SciFi Companion. There are a few current and Future SWADE settings that make use of such items without referencing the SFC.

[CapedCrusader]

Well, if they reference the structures created by the SFC, which for starters means all the Modifications that go onto all that gear, it still references the SFC even if it does not use the gear from it. Just because a Setting uses all different gear it still uses the framework. So on that I am afraid not.

[CapedCrusader]

On the CanAdvance, I dont see why not. I'll look into it. You can create your own Advance for the Setting, right?

[CapedCrusader]

And you can always ask...

[TCArknight]

On the CanAdvance, I dont see why not. I'll look into it. You can create your own Advance for the Setting, right?
Correct. :)

[TCArknight]

It would be very helpful if Cyberware had the Domain and UserSelect components as well...

(for example, there needs to be some way in Savage Rifts to specify what weapon is part of the Built-In Close Combat Weapon cyberware)

[CapedCrusader]

As far as Domain and user selectability for Cyberware, it already exists, really. For selectability, use Equippable. It'll pop up that check box. Look at Skill Chips as an example. And for the domain just add the User.NeedDomain tag. It'll pop up the fields it needs. It uses a slightly different mechanism than the domDomain field so adding that component won't do it. Forgive me for not responding about this earlier, I just got to looking into adding this and realized I didn't need to. The domain bit works for Robotic mods, too.

[CapedCrusader]

I added CanAdvance to Racial Properties...

[TCArknight]

Thank you for all you've done with SW!

[duhtroll]

Hello -

Is it possible to add more summary windows? I currently am able to only select /show 4. (basics, abilities, framework, armory)

Really enjoying the work done so far.

[TCArknight]

Maybe a CountsAs.? tag for Edges and Hindrances?

That way you could preclude an existing edge and have a setting-specific version of it which would meet existing Prereqs, etc.

[TCArknight]

It would be very useful to be able to adjust the summary of a Racial Property. Right now because it's a derived field, it can't be adjusted with scripts.

Alternately, allow amendthing to affect the summary in addition to name and description. (However, I know that's a basic change to amendthing and might not be doable)

[CapedCrusader]

Have you tried the trustme clause? I'm not where I can test it today or I'd check.

[TCArknight]

Have you tried the trustme clause? I'm not where I can test it today or I'd check.
I did. Still got the same error.

Render/10000
trustme

field[summary].text &= " This is added text."

and that gets:
Hero Lab was forced to stop compilation after the following errors were detected:

Syntax error in 'eval' script for Thing 'rpMyTest' (Eval Script '#1') on line 3
-> Only derived fields can generally be modified via scripts (field 'summary')

[TCArknight]

Also, looking at the Savage Worlds SWADE books, the Centaur has this racial ability:
Workhorse: Centaurs treat their Strength as two points higher when determining Encumbrance.

I don't see any way to do that since it looks like there's just the acLoadMult field on the hero which is a full multiplier for strength and not just a point bump.

I know in Pathfinder there is the tEncumSTR for adding points for the purpose of Encumbrance there. Would it be possible to get something like that for SW? I'm fairly sure Rifts isn't going to be the only place to see this kind of addition...

[dartnet]

Also, looking at the Savage Worlds SWADE books, the Centaur has this racial ability:


I don't see any way to do that since it looks like there's just the acLoadMult field on the hero which is a full multiplier for strength and not just a point bump.

I know in Pathfinder there is the tEncumSTR for adding points for the purpose of Encumbrance there. Would it be possible to get something like that for SW? I'm fairly sure Rifts isn't going to be the only place to see this kind of addition...

now that should be in SWADE becuse the Solider and Brawney Edges do the same thing.

[CapedCrusader]

Ohhhhh, wait for it.

The encumbrance rules got a LOT more complicated LOL.

[CapedCrusader]

Out of curiosity, what are you wanting to change in the Racial Property? Is there a reason you aren't duplicating it for the Setting and precluding the original?

[TCArknight]

Out of curiosity, what are you wanting to change in the Racial Property? Is there a reason you aren't duplicating it for the Setting and precluding the original?
Regarding the amendthing?

It is a brand new property, so nothing to preclude. I was wanting to use it to append the calculated range of an ability (range of Spirit*4) so was going to have a script calculate it and append that value to the summary.

[Maidhc O Casain]

Would it hurt/break anything or be super inconvenient to anyone to make all of the races available in the basic SWADE setting (without any of the Companions selected)?

What if I want to make Yeti available in a Fantasy or Super Powers game?

I may be misunderstanding, but the way it's set up now it looks like in that case I'd either have to do some editor work on the Yeti race or check the Science Fiction companion even though I wouldn't necessarily want to use the rest of the sci fi rules.

Or, if that violates copyright or something, at least the races included in the SWADE Core Rules should be available with nothing checked except the SWADE box.

Never mind. I just found the "Show Races" checkbox on the Configure Hero. Sorry :)

It still doesn't show all of them, but it DOES show the ones for SWADE, at least.

[Maidhc O Casain]

Also, not a huge thing but a confusing one.

Is there a reason for forcing the user to select the Core Skills at d4 rather than having them automatically populate? If so that's fine (of course!) but if not it seems like it would avoid some missed skills or confusion to have those five be automatically selected.

[TCArknight]

Also, not a huge thing but a confusing one.

Is there a reason for forcing the user to select the Core Skills at d4 rather than having them automatically populate? If so that's fine (of course!) but if not it seems like it would avoid some missed skills or confusion to have those five be automatically selected.
I would guess that's probably because different settings may have different core skills. If that's the case, bootstrapping the appropriate skills to the setting mechanic will work best...