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Will there be any more work on 4E?
- Thread starter SAbel
- Start date
JackOfAllGames
Well-known member
I am just hoping that lone wolf will finish the 4E files set before the information is removed from the DDI, and fix the final books, races and classes ect before the final plug is pulled on the game!
I've been hoping for this as well (hoping for close to a year now - the main reason I haven't purchased...at least yet), but from what I've seen, the Lone Wolf people seem done with this version. I don't know whether that's due to lack of interest, profit, WotC being jerks, or what. I understand that there are unofficial fixes for most of the stuff, but it's always nicer when the software just works on its own.
In any case, I doubt that anything would happen with this for at least another month or two (getting close to the projected shut-down time of the official character builder, as I understand it). Realm Works will likely get all the attention for a while yet.
My understanding is that they will keep up the 4E stuff for a while… But with the official announcement that Next will have a summer 2014 release, I don't expect to see them up past that.
I had really hoped that HL would get everything into conformance with the official 4E material before then. It doesn't seem likely based upon the last few posts I've seen. And so it is highly unlikely that I will purchase it. I have the old offline builder with CBLoader that seems to function and also seems to have a large support base. I just think the character sheets it creates are not very easy to read. But it is functional and seems to do all of the math correctly, so I'll just keep using that.
I had really hoped that HL would get everything into conformance with the official 4E material before then. It doesn't seem likely based upon the last few posts I've seen. And so it is highly unlikely that I will purchase it. I have the old offline builder with CBLoader that seems to function and also seems to have a large support base. I just think the character sheets it creates are not very easy to read. But it is functional and seems to do all of the math correctly, so I'll just keep using that.
My DDI subscription runs out in late February. If they pull the data before that subscription runs out, then I'm going to demand they give me part of my money back - which I believe they know everyone will do that and why they won't pull the info completely like that.
Honestly the biggest thing that I will miss from DDI is the ease of being able to change monster levels to fit your dungeon. That was to me the most helpful feature in there - especially since there's such a limited amount of characters you can save there.
Dragon and Dungeon, to me, haven't made a real impact to most of my games since 3.0. They were nice but for the most part I'd skip through the info and never look back. It was nice, though, that they'd take items, powers, etc out of those issues and put them into the system.
D&D Next was supposed to be a system that you could take characters and modules from any other D&D system and easily incorporate into those rules. With all of the info in their 4e database, you'd think they'd consider that to be valuable if that was the case. Now they're also apparently looking to have people download their content (and pay for it online) instead of supplying stores with books and gaming packages - which was a reason for hobby stores to host their games in the first place. So not only do they get that potential income, but folks will have to print their own materials now too.
Personally, from everything I'm reading about it, D&D Next seems to be more of a source of frustration for folks than any other change I've experienced (and I've played since Basic - I'm 45).
I'm taking my info out of the DDI system and moving it over to Hero Lab - whether or not HL continues to update 4e doesn't matter for that. What I want for now is a source I can trust with my data. We'll see what the future holds for D&D in the future....I'm really curious what they're going to do with the game more than what HL is planning on doing. I'm sure they'll update if there is info that should be in their system that's out there - the real question to me is if there is ever going to be anything for 4e past the DDI download I put into HL today.
-Drake
Honestly the biggest thing that I will miss from DDI is the ease of being able to change monster levels to fit your dungeon. That was to me the most helpful feature in there - especially since there's such a limited amount of characters you can save there.
Dragon and Dungeon, to me, haven't made a real impact to most of my games since 3.0. They were nice but for the most part I'd skip through the info and never look back. It was nice, though, that they'd take items, powers, etc out of those issues and put them into the system.
D&D Next was supposed to be a system that you could take characters and modules from any other D&D system and easily incorporate into those rules. With all of the info in their 4e database, you'd think they'd consider that to be valuable if that was the case. Now they're also apparently looking to have people download their content (and pay for it online) instead of supplying stores with books and gaming packages - which was a reason for hobby stores to host their games in the first place. So not only do they get that potential income, but folks will have to print their own materials now too.
Personally, from everything I'm reading about it, D&D Next seems to be more of a source of frustration for folks than any other change I've experienced (and I've played since Basic - I'm 45).
I'm taking my info out of the DDI system and moving it over to Hero Lab - whether or not HL continues to update 4e doesn't matter for that. What I want for now is a source I can trust with my data. We'll see what the future holds for D&D in the future....I'm really curious what they're going to do with the game more than what HL is planning on doing. I'm sure they'll update if there is info that should be in their system that's out there - the real question to me is if there is ever going to be anything for 4e past the DDI download I put into HL today.
-Drake
PghDrake you can find some community update material here (if you did not know) Herolab D&D 4e Themes and Bug Fixes: http://hl4e.cryptoknight.org
Cryptoknight has been working hard, with others to fix issues with HL 4E
I think that NEXT had abandon the "modular" plug in the material edition, they have gone to a "stream line rules" that "takes the best part of every edition" and makes it into NEXT. I am also (just shy) of 45 and have played every version from basic up to and including (Demo tested NEXT, and still wish I could have that time back!) but I will not be purchasing nor playing NEXT.
Cryptoknight has been working hard, with others to fix issues with HL 4E
I think that NEXT had abandon the "modular" plug in the material edition, they have gone to a "stream line rules" that "takes the best part of every edition" and makes it into NEXT. I am also (just shy) of 45 and have played every version from basic up to and including (Demo tested NEXT, and still wish I could have that time back!) but I will not be purchasing nor playing NEXT.
I am just hoping that lone wolf will finish the 4E files set before the information is removed from the DDI, and fix the final books, races and classes ect before the final plug is pulled on the game!
The problem about "finish the 4e files" is that the method they used (auto-generate the code for the module from automatic download of the description on DDI) will NOT be perfect from the way this is done. For a lot of the remaining issue a manual implementation would be needed I think. The problem is Lone Wolf cannot do a manual implementation due to not getting a licence for 4e from WotC. So they cannot do much there.
They have already dozens of Bugreports from me (as well as the bugfixes from them - which again would require manual implementation), but they cannot put them out, due to the licence issue.
I did asked them when there is the chance they could implement my bugfixes, and basically I was told that currently it is impossible due to licence situation, so they just put the information+code I provided to their bugtracking system for now (maybe there is a better chance for them getting a licence once D&D Next is released? I hope so)
So I think 4e support will stay like it is - the automatic download + community fixes. The fixes are good enough for playing though (I used the stuff for many months, occassionally adding another fix for some magic item or feat or such).
As to "pulling the data from DDI" I doubt WotC will do this any time soon. I think they always had customers using various versions of D&D and they do not lose anyting by keeping the data up and running. This is at least what I would expect. That they just leave the data up but no longer modify it.
Cannot know for sure if I am right on this, of course ^^
MagicSN
cryptoknight
Well-known member
Magic, if the code fixes and bug reports won't be acted upon by LW.
Put the stuff up at my site (provided there's something you haven't put there). I'll host it (at least until WotC sends me a C&D at which point I don't know what we'll do).
Put the stuff up at my site (provided there's something you haven't put there). I'll host it (at least until WotC sends me a C&D at which point I don't know what we'll do).
Magic, if the code fixes and bug reports won't be acted upon by LW.
Put the stuff up at my site (provided there's something you haven't put there). I'll host it (at least until WotC sends me a C&D at which point I don't know what we'll do).
I only sent bugfixes to them also in parallel to putting it on your site. At the start I still had not understood that they CANNOT include manual implementations for 4e due to licence issues. I already uploaded all fixes I have to your sites (thanks for the work of organizing all this!)
I only sent bugfixes to them also in parallel to putting it on your site. At the start I still had not understood that they CANNOT include manual implementations for 4e due to licence issues. I already uploaded all fixes I have to your sites (thanks for the work of organizing all this!)
If the Wolf Pack could have gotten the license, you wouldn't have needed the D&DI subscription to get the data via the downloader. Because LWD only provided a data framework and no actual data, they're not violating any copyright claims by Hasbro Inc. or it's subsidiaries (which WotC currently is). The only way you'll get some of the data is unfortunately adding it through the editor, particularly the Essentials line of books. Somewhere between the core books and Essentials they altered the formatting on the insider site to where the downloader couldn't read some of the essentials data, and I don't think the downloader was ever fixed to acquire it, sadly.
If the Wolf Pack could have gotten the license, you wouldn't have needed the D&DI subscription to get the data via the downloader. Because LWD only provided a data framework and no actual data, they're not violating any copyright claims by Hasbro Inc. or it's subsidiaries (which WotC currently is). The only way you'll get some of the data is unfortunately adding it through the editor, particularly the Essentials line of books. Somewhere between the core books and Essentials they altered the formatting on the insider site to where the downloader couldn't read some of the essentials data, and I don't think the downloader was ever fixed to acquire it, sadly.
I think this might very well be there argumentation (WotC's/Hasbro's), but it is a BAD argumentation. DDI adds a lot of value asides from Hero Lab - full searchable database, Dragon/Dungeon magazine. And a lot of people just take it to support the makers of D&D ^^
Also other Pen&Paper RPGs sell their stuff as well, and support extra character editors. Pathfinder. And even the german "Midgard" has it's "Magus" Character editor (if I remember right with the "blessing" of the makers of "Midgard").
The situation how it is to what does it lead people? It leads to "D&D Character editor is buggy". Giving Wolfslair a licence is I think a Win-Win situation. Not even considering a licence fee they could charge from Wolfslair.
(I have been years in the business of writing software ports of (non Pen&Paper Related) games licenced from originally software - I know how this stuff works... never never never before I found a behaviour like WotC/Hasbro.
Even Activision would give out licences of their top games against money. I think WotC has not thought the whole thing through properly.
MagicSN