Why is the database machine bound?

[mantrasong]

I'm on the fence for purchasing Realm Works, and I have exactly 0 desire to have an ongoing cloud subscription, once the initial trial period runs out. However, I like the idea of being able to sync between desktop and laptop, which *ought* to be an "at your own risk of corruption" network/dropbox option. (Even better would be to have database locking features, but I'm not going to be too ambitious here...)

However, everything I see says that the database is essentially secured with machine specific information to prevent this use case from being available. Is there a technical reason for that, or is it solely to force people to use the cloud subscription?

Edit: As an additional question - what happens if I replace hardware components without backing up my database? Am I just going to have to err on the side of paranoia - "always backup before a computer upgrade"? Or is there a way to recover the database post catastrophic hardware failure? (Like, say, motherboard)

Edit #2: To be clear, this is the issue I'm asking about:

Can I put the Realm Works database on a LAN or shared drive and use it from multiple computers?

No! The Realm Works database must be installed on a local drive and must only be accessed from one computer. Each client database is uniquely tied to a given machine and is NOT a multi-user database. Your data will be corrupted and unusable if you attempt to do this, so please don’t do this. The proper solution is to install Realm Works on all the various computers that you wish to use and then use cloud syncing to keep them all up-to-date with the latest content. You can also backup and restore your content without cloud service. Both options are outlined in the "Can I move my database to another machine?" FAQ question.

 

[Farling]

You can export the database to a file, transfer the file to another machine, then import the file into RW on that other machine (to entirely replace the whole database on that other machine).

Don't try copying the file without using the export/import function.

 

[Nikmal]

I'm on the fence for purchasing Realm Works, and I have exactly 0 desire to have an ongoing cloud subscription, once the initial trial period runs out. However, I like the idea of being able to sync between desktop and laptop, which *ought* to be an "at your own risk of corruption" network/dropbox option. (Even better would be to have database locking features, but I'm not going to be too ambitious here...)

However, everything I see says that the database is essentially secured with machine specific information to prevent this use case from being available. Is there a technical reason for that, or is it solely to force people to use the cloud subscription?

Edit: As an additional question - what happens if I replace hardware components without backing up my database? Am I just going to have to err on the side of paranoia - "always backup before a computer upgrade"? Or is there a way to recover the database post catastrophic hardware failure? (Like, say, motherboard)

You are not "forced" into a cloud subscription!!! The ONLY time you need to go on the internet at all is when you create the realm itself. Have you read any of the FAQ at all? it does state that the cloud subscription is completely optional and opens up other options that you could not get with out it.

You can work completely offline and back up your data to a file on your computer without connecting to the internet. You can still share information to your players via another screen or the one you are using. But you will not be able to share information through the cloud unless you are wanting to pay for it eventually. Meanwhile you have the option where you have cloud service for free for 6 months when you purchase it. You do not need to use the cloud service at all if you choose not to and can save to your hard drive too.

So please do not assume that you are bound and or trapped in to using the "cloud" service ok?

 

[Nikmal]

You can export the database to a file, transfer the file to another machine, then import the file into RW on that other machine (to entirely replace the whole database on that other machine).

Don't try copying the file without using the export/import function.

+1 to this. It does allow you to port it to a hard drive and read it from there.

 

[lifer4700]

You are not "forced" into a cloud subscription!!! The ONLY time you need to go on the internet at all is when you create the realm itself.

Does one need a subscription to The Cloud in order to connect and create a realm?

 

[Nikmal]

Does one need a subscription to The Cloud in order to connect and create a realm?

No you do not need a subscription to the Cloud service at all to create a realm.

From the FAQ:

Does player access to content require the Cloud Services?

Answer For players to access revealed content independently of the GM, the realm will need to exist within the Realm Works cloud, which means that Cloud Services are necessary. Whether it’s via the Player Edition or web-based player access, the data being viewed will need to be retrieved from our server (i.e. the cloud). That's necessary so that we can orchestrate all the security for ensuring individual players can only access exactly the information you've revealed to them - which is a rather complex process.

There's no requirement for GMs to utilize the cloud, however. The Player View mechanism can be fully leveraged without the cloud. Independent player access to revealed content is an option that some GMs will choose to make available to their players and others won't. Our hope is that most GMs will find the benefits of player access to content to be well worth the nominal extra investment in the cloud service.

 

[EightBitz]

You do need ACCESS to the cloud to create a Realm, but not a subscription. The minimal level of access required to create a realm is free. No subscription. No cost. Once the realm is created, you're free to use it offline.

 

[mantrasong]

You can export the database to a file, transfer the file to another machine, then import the file into RW on that other machine (to entirely replace the whole database on that other machine).

Don't try copying the file without using the export/import function.

Well, yes, but I would much rather have a network database that I can access from any of my own computers. The only reason I can think of that they would tie in *machine specific* information into a database is to ensure that this isn't possible.

Yes, I can back up and restore, but I frequently switch between laptop and desktop freely for campaign development, and sync all of my data over Dropbox. I don't care about sharing with my PCs, that isn't a feature that matters to me. In fact, all of the main cloud benefits are things that aren't useful to my current play style. What matters to me is convenience in editing the database wherever I am. I don't want to pay $40/year for functionality I currently have via Dropbox.

As much as I love the idea of Realm Works, the thought that I'd lose that ability makes me very reluctant to pay for it, because it *feels* like I'm being pushed towards a cloud subscription, even if I'm not "forced".

I also remain very concerned about the possiblity of hardware failure corrupting the database for no reason besides the fact that the developers wanted to tie that information in. (My current computer isn't exactly the peak of stability, this is a real concern for me. I've already had to re-issue my Hero Lab license over email due to hardware failure, and I may yet do it again)

 

[Mystic Lemur]

Can the location of the database be changed to another folder, perhaps a shared folder or drive on the network, or is it hard coded into Realm Works?

 

[Galahan]

You do need ACCESS to the cloud to create a Realm, but not a subscription. The minimal level of access required to create a realm is free. No subscription. No cost. Once the realm is created, you're free to use it offline.

I bought the realm works and I was somewhat disappointed that it's not entirely off line. Even after you created your realm in the cloud, you need access to the internet to run the software, because it has to be authenticated everytime you use it. This is a problem for me, because I like to work on my laptop in my spare time and sometimes I don't have internet available.

 

[MaxSupernova]

I bought the realm works and I was somewhat disappointed that it's not entirely off line. Even after you created your realm in the cloud, you need access to the internet to run the software, because it has to be authenticated everytime you use it. This is a problem for me, because I like to work on my laptop in my spare time and sometimes I don't have internet available.

Nope. Run in offline mode. No internet needed at all. No login, no authentication.

When the program first starts, instead of entering a password, click the "Work Offline" button. Make sure your data is synced first, if you've worked on it elsewhere.


All you need the internet for is to create a Realm. Crate a few extras when you are connected just in case.

 

[mantrasong]

Can the location of the database be changed to another folder, perhaps a shared folder or drive on the network, or is it hard coded into Realm Works?

According to the FAQ:

Can I put the Realm Works database on a LAN or shared drive and use it from multiple computers?

No! The Realm Works database must be installed on a local drive and must only be accessed from one computer. Each client database is uniquely tied to a given machine and is NOT a multi-user database. Your data will be corrupted and unusable if you attempt to do this, so please don’t do this. The proper solution is to install Realm Works on all the various computers that you wish to use and then use cloud syncing to keep them all up-to-date with the latest content. You can also backup and restore your content without cloud service. Both options are outlined in the "Can I move my database to another machine?" FAQ question.

 

[EightBitz]

I bought the realm works and I was somewhat disappointed that it's not entirely off line. Even after you created your realm in the cloud, you need access to the internet to run the software, because it has to be authenticated everytime you use it. This is a problem for me, because I like to work on my laptop in my spare time and sometimes I don't have internet available.

This is absolutely not true. On the login screen, there's a "Work Offline" button. I've used it many times.

 

[zarlor]

Well, yes, but I would much rather have a network database that I can access from any of my own computers. The only reason I can think of that they would tie in *machine specific* information into a database is to ensure that this isn't possible.

Yes, I can back up and restore, but I frequently switch between laptop and desktop freely for campaign development, and sync all of my data over Dropbox. I don't care about sharing with my PCs, that isn't a feature that matters to me. In fact, all of the main cloud benefits are things that aren't useful to my current play style. What matters to me is convenience in editing the database wherever I am. I don't want to pay $40/year for functionality I currently have via Dropbox.

As much as I love the idea of Realm Works, the thought that I'd lose that ability makes me very reluctant to pay for it, because it *feels* like I'm being pushed towards a cloud subscription, even if I'm not "forced".

I also remain very concerned about the possiblity of hardware failure corrupting the database for no reason besides the fact that the developers wanted to tie that information in. (My current computer isn't exactly the peak of stability, this is a real concern for me. I've already had to re-issue my Hero Lab license over email due to hardware failure, and I may yet do it again)

Yeah, this is a full on database we're talking about here, not some kind of flat-file set-up. Full databases just don't work on a shared drive like that and it's only by having that kind of database that Realm Works is even capable of doing all of the things it does. So it may seem like a pain to not be able to change things on two different computers any time you want (don't get me started on how you make that work, fairly complex stuff that's the crux of most everything a DBA does) but if you want something as robust as Realm Works you'll either have to have a middle-tier that can fully handle those conflicts of separate systems sending updates, which is what the cloud service is all about, OR you have to export the data and import it anyplace else you want it.

That's not to prevent you from being able to access the database from different machines at all, it's the nature of that kind of database... period. There's really only two ways to access that kind of database and Lone Wolf has made things as flexible as it is feasibly possible to do by even providing an export function. It's just the nature of the beast, not some attempt to force you to buy their cloud service. Ask any of my Oracle DBA's and SQL developers. It's just the way higher-end database software has to work.

 

[EightBitz]

Yeah, this is a full on database we're talking about here, not some kind of flat-file set-up. Full databases just don't work on a shared drive like that and it's only by having that kind of database that Realm Works is even capable of doing all of the things it does. So it may seem like a pain to not be able to change things on two different computers any time you want (don't get me started on how you make that work, fairly complex stuff that's the crux of most everything a DBA does) but if you want something as robust as Realm Works you'll either have to have a middle-tier that can fully handle those conflicts of separate systems sending updates, which is what the cloud service is all about, OR you have to export the data and import it anyplace else you want it.

That's not to prevent you from being able to access the database from different machines at all, it's the nature of that kind of database... period. There's really only two ways to access that kind of database and Lone Wolf has made things as flexible as it is feasibly possible to do by even providing an export function. It's just the nature of the beast, not some attempt to force you to buy their cloud service. Ask any of my Oracle DBA's and SQL developers. It's just the way higher-end database software has to work.

Have to agree wholeheartedly here. I manage a storage network and an Exchange environment. In managing the storage network, I have to work closely with our DBA on performance and backup issues. Databases are a PAIN.

On the one-hand, I would LOVE to have a central database that I can access from any computer. On the other hand, I know that would make the product more complex to manage, less affordable, and potentially less stable, or at least its stability would be much more dependent on how the user manages the product instead of how LWD packages and distributes the product.

And your average gamer, even your average computer literate gamer, is either unqualified, unwilling or both to learn DBA skills to use this product.

Ideally, yeah, centralized access would be great. Practically, it's just not that easy. Not that this was easy, I'm sure. The fact that so many people are saying that even with database crashes, they haven't lost data ... I find that surprising and impressive. And I'm sure it's due in no small part to the fact that LWD can keep a tight handle on how the DB is designed, managed and accessed. And I would rather have that reliability than centralized access.

 

[EightBitz]

And your average gamer, even your average computer literate gamer, is either unqualified, unwilling or both to learn DBA skills to use this product.

OK, I was editing that sentence in mid-stream, and it didn't come out right.

I meant to say "either unqualified as a DBA or unwilling to learn DBA skills or both. I didn't mean to judge anyone as being unqualified to learn new things.

 

[zarlor]

[snip]The fact that so many people are saying that even with database crashes, they haven't lost data ... I find that surprising and impressive. And I'm sure it's due in no small part to the fact that LWD can keep a tight handle on how the DB is designed, managed and accessed. And I would rather have that reliability than centralized access.

I agree wholeheartedly, although a lot of the robustness of being able to not lose data happens on the client side it's still one hell of a job they did there, especially considering they put a lot of that in place right up front during the Beta. Which, to be honest, was a huge help during Beta to make things a lot nicer for those of us still being able to really use the product at the table rather than just entering in dummy info knowing we'd probably have to enter it all in again in case of a crash. Really well done, IMHO, and one of the things I really love the most about Realm Works. One of those things that most of the time you never realize or think about until a crash happens. Definitely a feature I've long appreciated and major kudos to LWD from me, at least, on that.

 

[mantrasong]

Yeah, this is a full on database we're talking about here, not some kind of flat-file set-up. Full databases just don't work on a shared drive like that and it's only by having that kind of database that Realm Works is even capable of doing all of the things it does. So it may seem like a pain to not be able to change things on two different computers any time you want (don't get me started on how you make that work, fairly complex stuff that's the crux of most everything a DBA does) but if you want something as robust as Realm Works you'll either have to have a middle-tier that can fully handle those conflicts of separate systems sending updates, which is what the cloud service is all about, OR you have to export the data and import it anyplace else you want it.

That's fair. I'm a tinkerer, and I much prefer being allowed to screw things up, than being restricted "for my own good" (see: the reason my computer is unstable in the first place!), but I can see the reason for that. Realm Works would not be the first piece of software I have that simply chooses not to tackle that particular problem, and just say "don't do it". Though, those other programs also don't have "don't do it" enforced by anything besides a note in their FAQ, and in some cases, I've gone ahead and done it anyway, to no ill effects. My use case, as someone who actually does understand that I need to treat the database as "locked/checked out", however, is rare enough that I wouldn't expect them to plan for it.

I'm still concerned about the catastrophic hardware failure case, though. As someone who has worked in level 2 tech support, motherboard failures, particularly on laptops, aren't so rare that that should have been ignored in the trade-offs they made.

With Hero Lab, which also authenticates to hardware, the most that I have to worry about is losing access to HL for a few days while I wait for them to re-issue me a license. With Realm Works, it sounds as if I'm at risk for losing access to my data altogether, in the name of, of all things, ensuring database consistency.

 

[zarlor]

[snip]With Realm Works, it sounds as if I'm at risk for losing access to my data altogether, in the name of, of all things, ensuring database consistency.

Now this part I don't understand. If you are doing exports regularly (remember this is the same thing as doing any kind of regular backup) how would you lose access to your data? Even in the simple case of a motherboard failure I don't see how you'd lose your data at all, it's still right there on your hard drive and putting it on a different computer doesn't prevent you from accessing it again, although you might need some (free) support from LWD to get it all set up again on the new system. The main issue here is database consistency, for these kinds of databases, can actually mean more than just consistency... it could mean full on database corruption. It's not a nicety, but a necessity. We're not talking about a notepad text file where if you had it open on your desktop and your laptop at the same time, made changes on both then saved those changes where whichever saved last would simply overwrite any and all changes made by the other box. It can be a more complex situation than that, since we're talking data pointers and links not just the basic data itself.

In any case, though, nothing at all prevents you from making constant backups if hardware failure is the concern for you (and, as a computer professional myself I would agree it should be). Cloud access can make that more convenient for you (hitting the "sync" button) but it isn't necessarily all that much easier than hitting the "export" button (and using Dropbox as your save location for the export) to make sure you've got a backup saved someplace or that you can then access from other systems.

 

[mantrasong]

In any case, though, nothing at all prevents you from making constant backups if hardware failure is the concern for you (and, as a computer professional myself I would agree it should be). Cloud access can make that more convenient for you (hitting the "sync" button) but it isn't necessarily all that much easier than hitting the "export" button (and using Dropbox as your save location for the export) to make sure you've got a backup saved someplace or that you can then access from other systems.

The way I read the FAQ, and some of the comments in other threads in this forum, is that the database itself is authenticated to the machine, specifically the MAC, unless it is exported. Right now it sounds like, if I failed to make an exported backup (bad practice, admittedly), and my motherboard had to be replaced, I would be at risk of corruption on the database simply because my hardware has changed.

If that is wrong, then awesome, but it isn't what the FAQ appears to say. I really hope it is, because I want to buy the software, but that behavior may be a dealbreaker for me.