Weapon Master archetype not having Advanced Weapon Training?

[Meisterhau]

I've tried to use the Weapon Master's Handbook material on the character with the Weapon Master archetype. However, the Advanced Weapon Training does not appear as one of the Weapon Training class feature options.

The Advanced Weapon Training feat does work, and the vanilla Fighter is given the choice to have Advanced Weapon Training as one of its Weapon Training options.

However, the Weapon Master archetype currently is not. Is it supposed to be this way?

 

[Togainu]

Down here the relevant part of the feat bolded out:

Fighters that have the weapon master archetype can select this feat beginning at 4th level. The benefits of a weapon master's advanced weapon training options apply only to his selected weapon rather than all weapons in the same fighter weapon group, and he can't select the weapon specialist advanced weapon training option. A weapon master can select this feat as a bonus feat; if he does so, it doesn't count for the purpose of the requirement that it can be taken at most once per 5 fighter levels.

 

[Meisterhau]

Down here the relevant part of the feat bolded out:

Fighters that have the weapon master archetype can select this feat beginning at 4th level. The benefits of a weapon master's advanced weapon training options apply only to his selected weapon rather than all weapons in the same fighter weapon group, and he can't select the weapon specialist advanced weapon training option. A weapon master can select this feat as a bonus feat; if he does so, it doesn't count for the purpose of the requirement that it can be taken at most once per 5 fighter levels.

Thank you very much for replying. Yes, I have seen the description of the Advanced Weapon Training feat. It does allow the Weapon Master archetype to choose it earlier than others.

I'm curious if the quote below is somehow related to this.

Archetype: If an archetype replaces a class ability with a more specific version of that ability (or one that works similarly to the replaced ability), does the archetype's ability count as the original ability for the purpose of rules that improve the original ability?

It depends on how the archetype's ability is worded. If the archetype ability says it works like the standard ability, it counts as that ability. If the archetype's ability requires you to make a specific choice for the standard ability, it counts as that ability. Otherwise, the archetype ability doesn't count as the standard ability. (It doesn't matter if the archetype's ability name is different than the standard class ability it is replacing; it is the description and game mechanics of the archetype ability that matter.)

Example: The dragoon (fighter) archetype (Ultimate Combat) has an ability called "spear training," which requires the dragoon to select "spears" as his weapon training group, and refers to his weapon training bonus (even though this bonus follows a slightly different progression than standard weapon training). Therefore, this ability counts as weapon training for abilities that improve weapon training, such as gloves of dueling (Advanced Player's Guide), which increase the wearer's weapon training bonus.

Example: The archer (fighter) archetype gets several abilities (such as "expert archer") which replace weapon training and do not otherwise refer to the weapon training ability. Therefore, this ability does not count as weapon training for abilities that improve weapon training (such as gloves of dueling). This is the case even for the "expert archer," ability which has a bonus that improves every 4 fighter levels, exactly like weapon training.

 

[Togainu]

I think you were replying while I updated my post. But as you can see in my edited post. They aren't allowed to select the "advanced weapon training" option. It is in the description of the feat itself.

 

[Meisterhau]

I think you were replying while I updated my post. But as you can see in my edited post. They aren't allowed to select the "advanced weapon training" option. It is in the description of the feat itself.

Thank you, I've read it again. The feat's quote did state that Weapon Master archetypes cannot select the Weapon Specialist option, which is one of the Advanced Weapon Training.

Does this mean that Weapon Master archetype may only access Advanced Weapon Training via feats, or that Weapon Master archetype may not choose the "Weapon Specialist" option?

 

[Togainu]

hmm, I presume in all honesty just the weapon specialist in which case this might be a bug and should be reported. (I kinda blame paizo here for reusing names that they already used before with different abilities as well for the unclearness)

 

[Meisterhau]

It seems that there are strange things going on with the Weapon Master archetype and the Advanced Weapon Training.

When the Weapon Master archetype picks the Versatile Training, they cannot make any kind of selection. Yet, the Versatile Training does not restrict Weapon Master archetype from choosing it.

Its description doesn't state that the Weapon Master archetype cannot get the benefits from it, unlike the Armed Bravery option and the Weapon Specialist option.

Same for the Fighter's Reflexes option. Characters with the Weapon Master archetype cannot choose anything. There's a bug in the Advanced Weapon Training feat too. In the description, it says that Weapon Master archetype is not restricted to picking it once for every 5 levels.

However, even the Weapon Master archetype is blocked with the message saying that the feat must be taken once per every 5 levels.