Variant class

[Flappi]

Hello,

The tutorial says that there is a "class variant" tab in the editor, but I can't find it. I want only allow the wizard to have some choice of feats instead of scribe scroll at level 1, and it would be very, very tedious to duplicate each spell only for that...


Some other questions (I don't think it's a good idea to create 3 subject at the same time):

Is there a way to change the ability tied to spell DC ? If I want to use the Charisma for spell DC (but keep the normal ability for bonus slot and concentration check), is there a simple way to do this ? (the only idea I have so far is to change the field "cSplSaveDC" for the different classes; remove the normal ability bonus and add the Charisma bonus; I don't even know if it would work)

Is it possible to have a "spell DC" adjustment in the adjustment tab ?

Is there a way to access the sources of the Pathfinder module, and is it legal ? As you see, I have many houserules to integrate, and it would be far easier if I could see how everything is working (without modifying anything, just be able to directly see how a thing is computed, and how I could use a script in the editor to change the computation).

 

[ShadowChemosh]

Is there a way to access the sources of the Pathfinder module, and is it legal ? As you see, I have many houserules to integrate, and it would be far easier if I could see how everything is working (without modifying anything, just be able to directly see how a thing is computed, and how I could use a script in the editor to change the computation).

When you say sources I assume you mean like source code or in HL the scripts that actually run Things like feats and such?

If that is the case you can go into the editor and in each tab is a blue button bottom left corner called NEW(Copy). This will allow you copy in any existing thing already in HL. This will also bring down any scripts attached to the Thing. This is the best way to learn HL and to integrate your house rules.

On top of this you can use a Replaces Thing ID to have your custom/house rule version of a Thing get used instead of the core HL version. Trust me I have plenty of house rules also and it has been very easy to copy and tweak those changes into HL.

 

[Flappi]

No, everything isn't handled by scripts. For example, I don't think the computation of the general spell DC is handled by a script; or when I have implemented the fractional BAB, I couldn't access to the script which compute BAB, since it's not a script.

eg: I have a special huserule to prevent multiclassed character to have too many class skill (I'm trying this house rule in Pathfinder, because a class skill gives you a high flat bonus to the skill: only 1 level as rogue gives you too much skill bonus everywhere). The houserule is, each time you gains a level, a fixed number of skills becomes class skills (you chose which of them from your class skill list; the number of class skill you gain is high enough to allow you to have all skill from the list after a few level - but not after only one level).

For now, I didn't use this houserule for NPC. Creating NPC is tedious enough without that. With hero lab, I could integrate this feature automatically... But I can't think about any existing Thing which looks like that. I'd have to rewrite every classes, without class skills, and with a special power which add class skills every level. I don't think I will implement that. x)

Or, I could change the way the class skill are handled by the main routine. Or, more accurately, look at the way they are handled, and try to create a mechanic which interfere with this part of the routine, in order to give the result I want without changing the classes.

(Or I can wait for a "class variant" tab if it should be available in a near future... But it should be easier to add this as part of the main mechanic)

 

[ShadowChemosh]

Oh your trying to change the base mechanics of Pathfinder and thus HL itself. That gets into what I think they call the Structure files and that I don't think we have any way to directly change that or at least to do it easily.

 

[Mathias]

Class Variants have not been converted to Pathfinder yet (and there are still some elements of the documentation left over from the d20 files - the variant classes work there, but the changes to how class specials are designed mean that I need to re-think how things are handled). They're almost certainly something I'll need for the APG, so they're coming.

 

[Mathias]

Is there a way to change the ability tied to spell DC ? If I want to use the Charisma for spell DC (but keep the normal ability for bonus slot and concentration check), is there a simple way to do this ? (the only idea I have so far is to change the field "cSplSaveDC" for the different classes; remove the normal ability bonus and add the Charisma bonus; I don't even know if it would work)

On the Class tab in the editor, change the attribute listed as "Bonus Spell Attribute"

 

[Flappi]

That gets into what I think they call the Structure files and that I don't think we have any way to directly change that or at least to do it easily.

Change this kind of thing is never a good idea; but see it can be instructive. But not only I don't know how to see it, but I don't know if it's legal: that's why I ask on this forum (if it's not legal, they will say it quite clearly x) ).

In fact, it seem that everything the structure file does is submitted to the phase and order rules; therefore, it's very easy to interfere with any computation without changing the structure file: you have just to add a mechanic which does the computation you need just after the structure has done the normal computation. Further computations will use the values you computed instead of normal value. The only missing thing in order to easily interfere with the structure file is then... reading access to the structure file.

 

[Mathias]

We don't make the structural files for our packaged game systems available to users.

 

[Flappi]

On the Class tab in the editor, change the attribute listed as "Bonus Spell Attribute"

But there are only entries for:
* bonus spell attribute.
* max level spell attribute.

What I want is:
* Use Cha to compute the save DC.
* Use Int for everything else: bonus slot per level, concentration check, etc.

 

[dartnet]

I think what Flappi is asking for is the Variant class tab on the editor to be added.

 

[Mathias]

The bonus spell attribute is also used for the save dc. No example we've seen before separates those two functions, so we haven't had to make the distinction within Hero Lab, and I'm afraid it will be a long project to do so.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

What I want is:
* Use Cha to compute the save DC.
* Use Int for everything else: bonus slot per level, concentration check, etc.

In this case couldn't you set the class to use Int for its spellcasting and then somewhere in Final timing go through every spell on the hero and deduct out the Int Bonus to the DC and add back in the Cha to the DC? Should work in theory anyways.

 

[Mathias]

In this case couldn't you set the class to use Int for its spellcasting and then somewhere in Final timing go through every spell on the hero and deduct out the Int Bonus to the DC and add back in the Cha to the DC? Should work in theory anyways.

Actually, you could apply a modifier to each of the spell school picks (the same things spell focus is modifying) equal to the difference between INT and CHA. That's less picks to modify, and the spells are looking those things up anyway.

 

[Flappi]

No example we've seen before separates those two functions, so we haven't had to make the distinction within Hero Lab, and I'm afraid it will be a long project to do so.

I know, that why I don't ask you to implement this - it's not a common houserule. But anyway, there isn't many field to modify spell DC; changing the attribute tied to a save is more easy (like the Fort save depending on Cha for undead). But I understand that it's not a priority, altering spell DC in this way is not a common thing in the game (unlike changing the attribute of a save).

In this case couldn't you set the class to use Int for its spellcasting and then somewhere in Final timing go through every spell on the hero and deduct out the Int Bonus to the DC and add back in the Cha to the DC? Should work in theory anyways.

That's what I eventually did, with a mechanic:

if (hero.tagis[Classes.Wizard] <> 0) then
  hero.childfound[cHelpWiz].field[cSplSaveDC].value += hero.child[aCHA].field[aModBonus].value-hero.child[aINT].field[aModBonus].value
  endif

(final phase, priority 15000: after the standard DC computation, which is at final phase, priority 10000, but before each spell DC computation; and a source to apply this only in a selected game)
It's probably not the best way to do it, but it seems to be OK.

(I have also looked at the spell focus feat, but for now I don't understand how it works x) )


Now I'm looking for a way of allowing the user to change an automatic bonus feat from races or class; like changing the scribe scroll bonus feat for wizard (without redefining the class), or changing the feats that a derro (or anything else, but I was training myself with derro) gains with his HD. For races, it should be in the main program, since it's not an houserule (some races have racial feats - like skeletons with improved init - , but many of them have only feats from their HD; the feats given in the bestiary are only examples for a typical member of the race, they can be unadapted for a particular NPC).

 

[Mathias]

The way to get a race without pre-selelected feats and skills is simply to remake them in the editor. You can open a copy of the original and a new race, and flip back and forth between then, copying all the settings.

 

[Flappi]

Yes, but we can't save a copy of a monster from the bestiary; we must remake them. For monster with high CR (and many special ability), it's not very convenient to remake all the settings and copy all eval script.