-
Please note: In an effort to ensure that all of our users feel welcome on our forums, we’ve updated our forum rules. You can review the updated rules here: http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=5528.
If a fellow Community member is not following the forum rules, please report the post by clicking the Report button (the red yield sign on the left) located on every post. This will notify the moderators directly. If you have any questions about these new rules, please contact support@wolflair.com.
- The Lone Wolf Development Team
Titan's Rage and Enlarge Person Seem to Stack
- Thread starter morval
- Start date
ShadowChemosh
Well-known member
No this is about 2 Enlarge bonuses stacking which shouldn't happen.
Basically the first enlarges you to large and the next to huge currently. And you shouldn't be going to huge because it is the same type of bonus.
Titan's rage
and important line of it: "This size increase lasts a number of rounds equal to your tier, and doesn’t stack with any other spell or ability that alters your size."
The difference with the other threat is we are talking about the type and subtype check. (and the several versions that exists that is mentioned by the book mentioned in that threat). And the fact there are other ways to be enlarged while not coming specifically from that spell
Basically the first enlarges you to large and the next to huge currently. And you shouldn't be going to huge because it is the same type of bonus.
Titan's rage
and important line of it: "This size increase lasts a number of rounds equal to your tier, and doesn’t stack with any other spell or ability that alters your size."
The difference with the other threat is we are talking about the type and subtype check. (and the several versions that exists that is mentioned by the book mentioned in that threat). And the fact there are other ways to be enlarged while not coming specifically from that spell
Last edited:
ShadowChemosh
Well-known member
I guess we will just disagree. Spells "checking" for rules is either all checks or no checks. I am never going to agree to some strange middle ground.
If I am applying Enlarge Person it should apply the bonuses because we trust the gamer. Or we don't trust the gamer and we check all rules and apply or not apply as the rules say.
Middle ground ideas are not solution's in my world.
Well the thing that is going on in the other threat is the debate of "enlarge person" only applying to humanoids as the spell states. But as the book that mentions the Fey stuff indicates. There is an "Enlarge Fey" version as well and that same text implies there are other version to even the extent of "Enlarge Monster" all doing the same thing. (just different type limitations to one that work on everyone) and instead of having 20 versions one without a type check would work is basically what the statement is in the other threat
That is why the thing is said in the other threat of the type check shouldn't be done. That together with items that enlarge you and other abilities that apply the same bonuses but don't have the type limit. But the same type bonuses stacking is a different story in that regard. Seeing that always applies. (either way enough about that. Cause I do know where you are coming from as well)
That is why the thing is said in the other threat of the type check shouldn't be done. That together with items that enlarge you and other abilities that apply the same bonuses but don't have the type limit. But the same type bonuses stacking is a different story in that regard. Seeing that always applies. (either way enough about that. Cause I do know where you are coming from as well)
Yes and no.
Titan's Rage specifically says it does not stack with anything else that alters your size. That's what makes the stacking "wrong".
But that has nothing to do with "Enlargement Bonus" .. because there is no such type of Bonus in Pathfinder.
That being the case, ShadowChemosh's point remains... are adjustments in HeroLab supposed to be coded to recognize every possible variation of legal and illegal combinations? Or should the users be expected to check or know what is a valid combination before applying it?
Titan's Rage specifically says it does not stack with anything else that alters your size. That's what makes the stacking "wrong".
But that has nothing to do with "Enlargement Bonus" .. because there is no such type of Bonus in Pathfinder.
That being the case, ShadowChemosh's point remains... are adjustments in HeroLab supposed to be coded to recognize every possible variation of legal and illegal combinations? Or should the users be expected to check or know what is a valid combination before applying it?
I didn't ever really think that Herolab wouldn't enforce most things. I realize it enforces as much as it can and there are warnings put out when it isn't able at this time to enforce something for whatever reason. I always thought the main reason I use Herolab is it does all the math and rules checks for me, at least as much as it can. Why does it bother enforcing stacking rules, or if you can choose a feat then? Of course you can't do every perceivable thing with a complex thing such as Pathfinder always, but isn't the purpose of Herolab to try and strive to enforce the rules as much as possible? I'm not complaining, just thats the main reason I use Herolab. When it doesn't enforce the rules I live with it, but with the way characters are getting more complex all the time I've got so many things I already have to enforce manually and keep track of I really like it when Herolab does it for me.
I guess my question would be more like if it can enforce a condition then why not? Sure you don't get everything figured out, but why not strive to enforce as much as you can? Again I'm not complaining, I'm just thinking it seems strange that people can't understand why a user would want Herolab to enforce something so you can concentrate on other rules it doesn't enforce?
Sometimes I just want to check with others and see if my reasoning is correct before I report something as a bug. When its obvious I do report it in the proper place. I'm glad they finally fixed the Fate's Favored bug, I would constantly forget to add an extra +1 to my Luck bonuses.
If you're unsure of how something stacks, or does not stack, and so do not know if your issue is ignorance of the correct rule or if a bug has been discovered...
I like to post, asking how it should work.
There are a lot of rules savvy people on the Giant In The Playground forum.
Not that you cannot post here with... how should this work?
I like to post, asking how it should work.
There are a lot of rules savvy people on the Giant In The Playground forum.
Not that you cannot post here with... how should this work?
I didn't ever really think that Herolab wouldn't enforce most things. I realize it enforces as much as it can and there are warnings put out when it isn't able at this time to enforce something for whatever reason. I always thought the main reason I use Herolab is it does all the math and rules checks for me, at least as much as it can. Why does it bother enforcing stacking rules, or if you can choose a feat then? Of course you can't do every perceivable thing with a complex thing such as Pathfinder always, but isn't the purpose of Herolab to try and strive to enforce the rules as much as possible? I'm not complaining, just thats the main reason I use Herolab. When it doesn't enforce the rules I live with it, but with the way characters are getting more complex all the time I've got so many things I already have to enforce manually and keep track of I really like it when Herolab does it for me.
So the big difference there (as I noted in the other thread) is that Adjustments are not themselves part of the rules of Pathfinder (or any other game systems). Adjustments are "widgets" you can add to a creature to alter it. Some of them are done to apply the changes that result from spells. Others are there to help implement house-rules for GMs (change the number of Feats, add/remove skills, etc.). In that case, since the intent of some Adjustments is to allow the user to build something different from the standard rules, it would be self-defeating for the Adjustment to flag itself.
Feats, (bonus type) stacking rules, skill points, and so on are spelled out in the Pathfinder rules at the core as the "standard case", like with level progression and the classes themselves. So HeroLab can implement them, and does. Spell effects, class abilities, racial abilities, and so on are exceptions to these "standard cases"... and are implemented as such. GMs who want to modify these core things often need to use the Editor to create new special abilities or Mechanics to alter the way things work for one creature or as the new "standard" for all. Or, in some cases, they can use an Adjustment to achieve the same effect.
So since Adjustments themselves are not part of the rules, but are tools to apply changes to the character, is it somehow how of a burden for the user to be expected to know when it is and is not appropriate to add "Enlarge Person" than it is to know when to add "Feats, Number" and give himself 20 more Feats?
Pathfinder is indeed complex. Just as it can be difficult for a GM or player to know every rule, it is sometimes more daunting to try to implement every rule in a software tool. And to allow for every variation of "not usually, but in THIS case... " that comes out. So HeroLab implements the core, and places warnings on things that have requirements (Feats, Traits, Deity choices) where appropriate.. but because GMs often say "normally you can't, but ok this time" for all kinds of things, it doesn't force you not to do something.