Starfinder - Classic Support - Please Read

[Tragically Geek]

Hey guys,

I apologize in advance if this is breaking a rule or similar as there are other pre-existing Starfinder threads. However this subject is very important to me, to the point that after years of using your product I created a forum account solely to pass on this feedback.

I really wish you guys would re-think your position on Starfinder support in Classic. I am grateful that over the years HeroLab has incorporated a bunch of amazing in play features, even without incurred price upgrades. Sadly, I feel you are losing view of what defined your software initially.

While I do not claim I speak for others, I feel a decent portion of your userbase will agree with me. I purchased HeroLab, the "Award-winning character management software for RPGs" with the sole intention of using it as advertised; Character Creation & Management

While your intended features sound amazing and inclusive (Spaceship combat, party loot distribution, party assets etc), it comes with a heavy cost. You have decided to ostracize a portion of your user base who simply want to pay for a great tool to create characters, no different than any other system you support at present.

At the end of the day, I don't care if my Character Generator has the ability to simulate Space Combat, as long as it gives me my adjusted modifiers. I want it to create characters, and I {and many others} are literally trying to throw money at you [$20-30] while you look the other way.

You have supported us for years with many different [and even obscure] systems, why are you failing loyal customers now, solely due to the inability to implement features that do not define your base product.

 

[Alewis]

Well said.

Just thinking of all the money they won't make this month because Starfinder isn't already up on Classic makes me cringe.

 

[DeltaMasterMind]

Hey guys,

I apologize in advance if this is breaking a rule or similar as there are other pre-existing Starfinder threads. However this subject is very important to me, to the point that after years of using your product I created a forum account solely to pass on this feedback.

I really wish you guys would re-think your position on Starfinder support in Classic. I am grateful that over the years HeroLab has incorporated a bunch of amazing in play features, even without incurred price upgrades. Sadly, I feel you are losing view of what defined your software initially.

While I do not claim I speak for others, I feel a decent portion of your userbase will agree with me. I purchased HeroLab, the "Award-winning character management software for RPGs" with the sole intention of using it as advertised; Character Creation & Management

While your intended features sound amazing and inclusive (Spaceship combat, party loot distribution, party assets etc), it comes with a heavy cost. You have decided to ostracize a portion of your user base who simply want to pay for a great tool to create characters, no different than any other system you support at present.

At the end of the day, I don't care if my Character Generator has the ability to simulate Space Combat, as long as it gives me my adjusted modifiers. I want it to create characters, and I {and many others} are literally trying to throw money at you [$20-30] while you look the other way.

You have supported us for years with many different [and even obscure] systems, why are you failing loyal customers now, solely due to the inability to implement features that do not define your base product.

Thankfully there is some support for making characters with the Pathfinder Community Pack. ShadowChemosh has added some adjustments that will help with this, I do get however that official support would have been glorious, the way Starfinder works just wouldn't be what we would want fully out of it. Granted though at the end of the day I am just a user throwing in my two cents.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

Thankfully there is some support for making characters with the Pathfinder Community Pack. ShadowChemosh has added some adjustments that with help with this,

To be perfectly clear I have added support for GM's only. This allows conversion of a Pathfinder monster into a Starfinder monster. In addition I have all the Starfinder weapons.

For full details see THIS post.

But its for GMs not players.

 

[LazarX]

Well said.

Just thinking of all the money they won't make this month because Starfinder isn't already up on Classic makes me cringe.

Keep in mind that Lone Wolf doesn't get access to Paizo's material any earlier than we do.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

Keep in mind that Lone Wolf doesn't get access to Paizo's material any earlier than we do.

Actually not true. The amount of time often is not set but the bigger the book the more lead time they get. Even 3PP's where allowed early access with a NDA to Starfinder and with needing more time to "code" I am sure they got it months ahead of time.

 

[IconoclasticScream]

You have supported us for years with many different [and even obscure] systems, why are you failing loyal customers now, solely due to the inability to implement features that do not define your base product.

Things change. As a GM, the promise of what comes with HLO is what I've wanted HL to be. This loyal customer is thrilled about the future and the new base product.

 

[Dervish]

not a fan of more monthly subscriptions so i will be giving herolab online a pass.

 

[MNBlockHead]

I don't' see how LWD makes enough money to give me what I want without some monthly subscription fee. Personally, I like what DnD Beyond is trying to do in terms of pricing. You can buy content like a core book, an adventure path, are just the race/class packs that you are actually going to use. That content is then yours. It is a one-time fee.

The subscription is not necessary for most players if they don't mind some advertising on the page. But if you want to make unlimited characters, if you are a DM and want to share your content with your players and have access to their character sheets, you need a subscription.

Other things that would make a subscription more palatable would be premium support and integrations with third-party platforms like VTTs.

I don't know if I'll subscribe to HLO or not. I'll have to wait to see the cost and what it offers. I don't see myself playing Starfinder and from what I've read, HLO is only going to integrate with RW via a URL link, so I don't see anything yet that will entice me away from what I'm already doing.

But Starfinder is very popular and slick online tools for players and GMs of that system could bring LWD a lot of new customers. If they can't support the development of Starfinder for both HLC and HLO, which Rob clearly stated that they can not, then the decision to push HLO is likely the right strategy and will be a net gain. Besides, if the community really wants Startfinder support in HLC, then they can build it, just like they did with D&D 5e.

 

[Malevolus]

Completely agree with the OP. Seems like they are losing sight of what got them where they are today.

 

[LazarX]

Completely agree with the OP. Seems like they are losing sight of what got them where they are today.

Quite frequently in life the road that got you to the present, isn't going to take you where you need to be in the future.

Herolab piracy is a thing. I'm sure that one of the reasons for the new buisness model is to circumvent that.

The reality of buisness is that if you want to move your customers to a new platform, you need a killer app to entice them there. For HLO, Starfinder is going to be that killer app.

There's not that much money to be made in this buisness, so if you're going to keep the lights open, you need to make innovative moves like this from time to time. In short, don't hold your breath waiting for Lone Wolf to move from this position any time in the forseeable future.

 

[jfrazierjr]

While your intended features sound amazing and inclusive (Spaceship combat, party loot distribution, party assets etc), it comes with a heavy cost. You have decided to ostracize a portion of your user base who simply want to pay for a great tool to create characters, no different than any other system you support at present.

I totally agree! I mean it's not like they created an IPad version of HeroLab which only supports two game systems(PathFinder and D&D 5e) but none of the other half dozen or more OFFICIAL game systems on IPad, not to mention they also created an Android version to support the other half of the tablet community to be able to create and edit their characters on those devices.

Oh wait... nevermind...

 

[SnowHeart]

I agree with the original poster and appreciate the respectful and understanding tone they took.

I can understand how making HL accessible from more platforms is a real boon to a number of users. I also understand why, from a development and cost perspective, it is much more efficient to do that on a web-browser basis rather than one around apps tailored for each platform/OS. I do get that, honestly. And I've always found the iPad app to be clunky and prone to crashing my iPad, so something that is browser based would be, I'm sure, much more efficient.

But, it's a functionality I don't really need nor want, and never asked for. It's why I paid for multiple licenses for each of my computers.

I've been an "evangelist" for Hero Lab, getting all of my players to use it in two separate games. I've never had a problem buying the data packages for HL that I wanted. The amount of money I've tossed at Wolf Lair (or coaxed my players into spending) is significant and I don't begrudge it in the slightest. They've got a right (and need) to make a profit, and I've found the functionality that is delivered in HL is worth the cost.

When it comes to HLO, I've got a nice job and $2/month really is not a problem for me. Always online isn't a problem for me (I don't go to cons and pretty much everyone I go there is WiFi). But there's just something about the way this is getting rolled out that sticks in my craw. Pay up front and then every month and, if I stop paying every month, I lose the content I've already paid for? And access to my characters? :-/

I'd rather either pay it up front and be done with it, or pay for a subscription with access to all the data packages for a game system (as Syrinscape does it, though they also let you keep any sound packages they release during your subscription).

I truly don't begrudge the folks who are happy with this approach. It sounds like it actually does meet a need that many users want.

And who knows... I may sign up for the beta. I may eventually buy it. But I am actively trying out other systems (PCGen) right now because of this. I appreciate that, in one of his posts, Rob acknowledged this as a reality and did so without rancor.

We'll see what happens.

 

[jfrazierjr]

Pay up front and then every month and, if I stop paying every month, I lose the content I've already paid for? And access to my characters? :-/

I'd rather either pay it up front and be done with it, or pay for a subscription with access to all the data packages for a game system (as Syrinscape does it, though they also let you keep any sound packages they release during your subscription).

Q: What happens if I stop paying the monthly fee for Hero Lab Online?
A: If your payment lapses, character creation will no longer be possible. But don’t worry, all your purchased content will be there waiting to resume use when you renew your account! And you’ll always be able to get your characters out, even with a lapsed account

Perhaps I did not fully understand your quoted statement,but from what the faq noted,you still have access to the characters after subscription lapse , just not editing. Honestly, the monthly cost is only to pay for the servers and bandwidth.

I have other possible issues with it, but will wait to see since it could prove a huge boon for me since most of my friends bring tablet or phones to games but only on is an IDEVICE. Of course, I will likely have to wait there years for support for my game system<sigh>

 

[SnowHeart]

Yeah, no problem, that's a useful clarification. More broadly, that's the second time today I've miscommunicated so clearly I need to be more precise in my wording. My primary concern is the ability to use the data packages I paid for, and that is cut off as soon as my sub lapses. I'm glad I would still have access to characters I previously created, but as a GM in two F2F games, three PbP games, and a player in -?- more, the primary issue for me is an ongoing ability to use data packages I paid for.

 

[DeltaMasterMind]

Yeah, no problem, that's a useful clarification. More broadly, that's the second time today I've miscommunicated so clearly I need to be more precise in my wording. My primary concern is the ability to use the data packages I paid for, and that is cut off as soon as my sub lapses. I'm glad I would still have access to characters I previously created, but as a GM in two F2F games, three PbP games, and a player in -?- more, the primary issue for me is an ongoing ability to use data packages I paid for.

There is a good chance the subscription model will change over time, this is just a good way to get this project on its feet. With that said, the support for you to grab your HLO characters and use your HLC to edit them isn't that bad either. I do totally see your point on this matter as I felt the same when I first got on board with HL and had to deal with the probable lost of my license if the company fell-through. At this point I am not worried as they have been supportive of their user base thus far. I hope that might ease your mind. Take care.