Small Monks

[Pitfighter]

Hi, I've just recently bought a license for Hero Labs and tested it out with a character my Girlfriend plays in my weekly D&D game. Some of the numbers aren't adding up right. She has a 9th level Gnome Monk with a monk's belt and an amulet of mighty fist's +1. The Monk's belt seems to be increasing her damage to a medium monk of 5 levels higher. The flurry of blows is missing 2 points of attack bonus. Her Jump skill is missing the +8 bonus from having a base speed 20 feet faster than 30. Otherwise everything seems to be good. Is there a way to get a portrait printed on the character sheet? Thanks,

Pitfighter.

 

[DannyBoy2k]

Actually, it seems as if Small monks get an incorrect level of damage, at level 14, no matter what. A Small monk, such as a gnome, should do 1d10 damage, between levels 12 and 15. But, at level 14, does 2d6. From level 16, when it SHOULD be 2d6, it jumps to 3d6 instead. And, at level 20, we reach 4d6, and it should be 2d8.
And when you add the Monk's Belt, it start doing all sorts of strange things...for instance, an elf monk, level 14, with the belt, gets a damage of 4d6...and there is NO size monk, no matter the level, that gets that damage. So...this seems to have been a late-night session?

As for the flurry of blows...I can see 1 point, but out of curiousity, where does the second come from?

 

[Pitfighter]

I forgot to mention Weapon focus (Unarmed strike). It doesn't seem to affect the flurry of blows. When I unequip the amulet of mighty fists it doesn't affect it either, so those two aren't counting towards the flurry.

Pitfighter.

 

[DannyBoy2k]

Ah. Well, that explained THAT.
What about the other stuff...? Rob? Colen?

 

[rob]

At 06:24 PM 3/19/2007, you wrote:

Ah. Well, that explained THAT.
What about the other stuff...? Rob? Colen?

We just got back from the tradeshow late last night. I'm trying to get caught up on lots of stuff today. But this question requires Colen's input. I'm guessing his girlfried had "other plans" for him this weekend after being gone a week, so he may not be posting until Monday.

Thanks for your patience on this. These darn shows always mess with our ability to keep up with the questions on the forums. :-(

-Rob

 

[Colen]

At 11:53 PM 3/16/2007, you wrote:

>I forgot to mention Weapon focus (Unarmed strike). It doesn't seem
>to affect the flurry of blows. When I unequip the amulet of mighty
>fists it doesn't affect it either, so those two aren't counting
>towards the flurry.


Flurry of Blows is an interesting ability. Obviously it can be used
with unarmed strike, which is what most people use it for. But also:


"When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed
strikes or with special monk weapons
(<http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#kama>kama,
<http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#nunchaku>nunchaku,
<http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#quarterstaff>quarterstaff,
<http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#sai>sai,
<http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#shuriken>shuriken,
and
<http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#siangham>siangham).
She may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons
interchangeably as desired."


Flurry isn't just for Unarmed Strike, so we can't necessarily apply
all unarmed strike bonuses to it... but at the same time, most people
are going to be using Flurry with unarmed strike. Does anyone have
any good ideas about how to handle this?


Thanks,



--
Colen McAlister (colen@wolflair.com)
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development
http://www.wolflair.com/

 

[Colen]

At 07:22 PM 3/16/2007, you wrote:
>Actually, it seems as if Small monks get an incorrect level of
>damage, at level 14, no matter what. A Small monk, such as a gnome,
>should do 1d10 damage, between levels 12 and 15. But, at level 14,
>does 2d6. From level 16, when it SHOULD be 2d6, it jumps to 3d6
>instead. And, at level 20, we reach 4d6, and it should be 2d8.
>And when you add the Monk's Belt, it start doing all sorts of
>strange things...for instance, an elf monk, level 14, with the belt,
>gets a damage of 4d6...and there is NO size monk, no matter the
>level, that gets that damage. So...this seems to have been a
>late-night session?


Yep, looks like we're calculating the damage incorrectly. Thanks for
the note - we'll get this worked out for the next release.



--
Colen McAlister (colen@wolflair.com)
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development
http://www.wolflair.com/

 

[Colen]

At 01:30 PM 3/16/2007, you wrote:
>Hi, I've just recently bought a license for Hero Labs and tested it
>out with a character my Girlfriend plays in my weekly D&D game. Some
>of the numbers aren't adding up right. She has a 9th level Gnome
>Monk with a monk's belt and an amulet of mighty fist's +1. The
>Monk's belt seems to be increasing her damage to a medium monk of 5
>levels higher. The flurry of blows is missing 2 points of attack bonus.


I think I've addressed these points in some posts I just made, so
please let me know if there's anything else you see wrong.


>Her Jump skill is missing the +8 bonus from having a base speed 20
>feet faster than 30. Otherwise everything seems to be good.


Ah, I just found the reference to this in the rules. Thanks!


>Is there a way to get a portrait printed on the character sheet?


We're planning to add a 'background' dossier, so you can print a page
with your background information, which would include a portrait.
Would that satisfy what you're looking for?


Thanks,



--
Colen McAlister (colen@wolflair.com)
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development
http://www.wolflair.com/

 

[Pitfighter]

Thanks for getting back to me. I can understand the issue with flurry of blows. A background dossier would be nice. We track time in my campaign and we usually put birthdate on the background page. A picture on the front page would be nice, but we can live without it.

Pitfighter.

 

[chogenkiboy]

Flurry of Blows

Hi,

I read through the topic titled Small Monks, and I think you've done an admirable job handling Flurry of Blows, Monk's Belt, and Amulet of Might Fists.

I did notice one thing when I included the feat Weapon Finesse in Hero Lab 2.0, however. In my case, the character had a better Dexterity bonus than Strength bonus. The Unarmed Strike block correctly incorporated the better to hit bonus from the character's Dexterity bonus instead of the character's Strength bonus, but Flurry of Blows only seemed to apply the Strength bonus.

In other words if a character has Weapon Finesse, and the character's Dexterity modifier is better than the character's Strength modifier, the Flurry of Blows block should incorporate the Dexterity modifier instead of the Strength modifier.

Thanks,
Cho-G

 

[chogenkiboy]

Hmmm... looks like my proposed subject/topic Flurry of Blows was ignored since I replied to Small Monks... that and the amulet should be Amulet of Mighty Fists. Hopefully this doesn't obfuscate then main concern with Flurry of Blows.

 

[Colen]

chogenkiboy wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I read through the topic titled Small Monks, and I think you've done an
> admirable job handling Flurry of Blows, Monk's Belt, and Amulet of Might
> Fists.
>
> I did notice one thing when I included the feat Weapon Finesse in Hero
> Lab 2.0, however. In my case, the character had a better Dexterity bonus
> than Strength bonus. The Unarmed Strike block correctly incorporated the
> better to hit bonus from the character's Dexterity bonus instead of the
> character's Strength bonus, but Flurry of Blows only seemed to apply the
> Strength bonus.
>
> In other words if a character has Weapon Finesse, and the character's
> Dexterity modifier is better than the character's Strength modifier, the
> Flurry of Blows block should incorporate the Dexterity modifier instead
> of the Strength modifier.


Good point! I've fixed this, so it'll be included in the next release.


Thanks!


--
Colen McAlister, colen@wolflair.com
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development

 

[Kendall-DM]

Flurry isn't just for Unarmed Strike, so we can't necessarily apply
all unarmed strike bonuses to it... but at the same time, most people
are going to be using Flurry with unarmed strike. Does anyone have
any good ideas about how to handle this?

I've now come across this and have to apologize for resurrecting this thread. However, I do see a solution, as nobody in their right mind is going to do both unarmed strike and a monk weapon together in their flurry of blows. Well, the circumstances of such would be extremely rare. Players, in general, always attack with their best weapon when they have multiple attacks (and since this is not classified as two weapon attacks, it isn't an issue with an off-hand attack). So, the best way to handle this is to have flurry of blows look to see what is equipped on the character (you can equip unarmed strikes) and go with that. This wouldn't be able to include natural weapons, but they aren't allowed to be used in a monk's flurry ability anyhow.

1. Check if that weapon is a monk weapon, ignore steps 2 through 4.
2. Check if a weapon is equipped, if not ignore steps 3 & 4.
3. Check that more than one weapon is not equipped, and if so, ignore step 4.
4. Adjust flurry attack based on the weapon that is equipped.

I'm implementing this in my flurry of blows, but thought it might be nice to implement this in the files (so weapon focus and other bonuses will apply as necessary).

UPDATE: And I've got this working perfectly now.

 

[Aaron]

But this runs into the problem of what is "Best", doesn't it? This is necessarily subjective and I am not sure it is a call we should make for the player. If the monk has equipped a two handed monk weapon with a higher damage than her unarmed strike, but has weapon focus in Unarmed strike she may have a higher attack bonus with one and damage bonus with the other. Which is best? That depends on whether you'd prefer to hit more often or harder.

 

[Kendall-DM]

But this runs into the problem of what is "Best", doesn't it? This is necessarily subjective and I am not sure it is a call we should make for the player. If the monk has equipped a two handed monk weapon with a higher damage than her unarmed strike, but has weapon focus in Unarmed strike she may have a higher attack bonus with one and damage bonus with the other. Which is best? That depends on whether you'd prefer to hit more often or harder.

The way I have it working, you can still choose what is best. My point was, depending on the situation, circumstances, whatever, you will choose one of your weapon's as the best weapon for the job, and usually use it exclusively with your flurry. I was creating Kuo-Toan Monitors when this came up. The monitors I was creating were level 4, so they have a +1/+1 for their flurry (or rather better stated, they have -2/-2 to the attack they are using for flurry). Now, the Monitor has a Strength that gives it a +1 bonus, and its level plus racial HD gives it a +5 BAB, for a total of +6. However, the Monitor has taken weapon focus with its unarmed attack (giving it a better attack bonus). The flurry, with no weapons equipped, displays a base of +4/+4, if I equip the quarterstaff it is still +4/+4 for the flurry, same with the kama, but if I equip the unarmed, it displays +5/+5 due to the weapon focus. You can still choose a better damage weapon if you want, as well as a different type (slashing or piercing), I just wanted the attack bonuses accurately displayed.

I do still forsee a problem with bonuses (it might get both the one on flurry and the one from whatever it is copying the attack bonus from). I'll get that sorted out next, but feel that this is a good solution to the problem. UPDATE: Actually this works fine, since all the changes occur after the attack values are created. It is only carrying the bonuses over for the chosen weapon, which is what is intended. Sometimes timing issues can work IN your favor!

 

[Kendall-DM]

Here is what I did, maybe that will show what I mean clearer. I just added this code to flurry of blows and left the rest alone.

Final Phase/10005

~ If we're wearing armor or shield, we're disabled.
if (hero.tagis[Hero.EquipArmor] + hero.tagis[Hero.EquipShld] > 0) then
  var result as number
  result = assign[Helper.SpcDisable]
endif

~ Get the bonus based on our level.
var bonus as number
var level as number
level = field[xTotalLev].value
if (level < 5) then
  bonus = -2
elseif (level < 9) then
  bonus = -1
else
  bonus = 0
endif

~ Apply the bonus to our flurry of blows weapon based on equipped
~ monk weapon.
foreach pick in hero from BaseWep where "!thingid.wQtrstaff"
  doneif (each.tagis[Hero.OffHand] <> 0)
nexteach
foreach pick in hero from BaseWep where "wGroup.cHelpMnk"
  if (each.tagis[Hero.MainHand] <> 0) then
    container.child[wFlurry].field[wAttack].value = each.field[wAttack].value + bonus
  endif
nexteach

 

[Aaron]

Ah, well nicely done then.

 

[nogoodscallywag]

As of July 8, 2013, Herolab still shows a halfling monk, 20th level, with no feats or anything selected, doing 4d4-1... seems like it should be 2d8 at least

 

[Sendric]

As of July 8, 2013, Herolab still shows a halfling monk, 20th level, with no feats or anything selected, doing 4d4-1... seems like it should be 2d8 at least

I am unable to reproduce this. I created a 20th level halfling monk and am seeing 2d8-1 damage. I even removed all .user files to make sure it wasn't something fixed in the community set, but I'm still seeing 2d8. Can you tell me if there's anything else going on with your character?

 

[CptCoots]

I'm having a similar problem with large monks. More specifically, I was implimenting a version of Powerful Build that upped unarmed damage. So I tossed in a .assign[Helper.DamageUp] somewhere in there. This seemed to work okay. Until you get to Monk level 16. Here Medium damage is 2d8 (Large 3d8 by DMG page 29). However, Hero Lab gives 2d10...

There is further problems here. Take a Medium creature with 16 levels in Monk. Use adjustments to do Spell: Enlarge person, Size Category, or Weapon Size: Unarmed. The first two do NOTHING to the unarmed damage while the third goes from 2d8 to 2d10.