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- The Lone Wolf Development Team
Rogue/Wizard Gestalt class...
- Thread starter Nikmal
- Start date
Maidhc O Casain
Well-known member
Wow, that's not much time! I've made some Gestalt classes but it's been awhile. Let me see if I can remember how I did it.
In the editor, go to the classes tab and use the New (Copy) button. Copy the Wizard, name your new class and give it a Unique ID. This will be the base for your new class, since IMO it's much more difficult to copy over all of the spellcasting stuff for the wizard than it is to copy all of the Rogue stuff.
Now follow the same procedure, except copy the Rogue class. Now comes the work - it'll be a lot of flipping back and forth between your two classes so it's tedious, but not too hard for the most part.
A lot of it's simple - all of the stuff in the bottom center portion (the drop box section) is pretty easy to set. You'll just compare the two classes and set the options on your Wizard copy so that they show the better of the two classes. Make sure you edit the class skills list to include all of the class skills for both classes.
For the bootstraps/gizmos/evaluation scripts/etc. you'll need to look at the ones for the Rogue and create new ones in your 'Wizard' template so that the new class has all of these features and scripts for both classes. For the scripts this will entail some copy/pasting.
I can't recall right off hand if there's a conflict with the Primary/Secondary/Tertiary abilities (for example, if the Sneak Attack and the Specialty School are primary abilities for each class, one of them will need to be re-assigned as a secondary or tertiary skill). Can't remember exactly how I handled that, but IIRC ShadowChemosh was a big help there.
Once you've got it all finished up and tested, delete your 'Rogue' copy and you're gold!
PS - There's almost certain to be something I missed or some tinkering you'll have to do, but this should get you started.
In the editor, go to the classes tab and use the New (Copy) button. Copy the Wizard, name your new class and give it a Unique ID. This will be the base for your new class, since IMO it's much more difficult to copy over all of the spellcasting stuff for the wizard than it is to copy all of the Rogue stuff.
Now follow the same procedure, except copy the Rogue class. Now comes the work - it'll be a lot of flipping back and forth between your two classes so it's tedious, but not too hard for the most part.
A lot of it's simple - all of the stuff in the bottom center portion (the drop box section) is pretty easy to set. You'll just compare the two classes and set the options on your Wizard copy so that they show the better of the two classes. Make sure you edit the class skills list to include all of the class skills for both classes.
For the bootstraps/gizmos/evaluation scripts/etc. you'll need to look at the ones for the Rogue and create new ones in your 'Wizard' template so that the new class has all of these features and scripts for both classes. For the scripts this will entail some copy/pasting.
I can't recall right off hand if there's a conflict with the Primary/Secondary/Tertiary abilities (for example, if the Sneak Attack and the Specialty School are primary abilities for each class, one of them will need to be re-assigned as a secondary or tertiary skill). Can't remember exactly how I handled that, but IIRC ShadowChemosh was a big help there.
Once you've got it all finished up and tested, delete your 'Rogue' copy and you're gold!
PS - There's almost certain to be something I missed or some tinkering you'll have to do, but this should get you started.
I pretty much did what you mentioned and it worked except for set of major things. When I try to add spells/Spell book/rogue talent it says there is none to be found.
I copied it all over from rogue INTO the wizard.. so I am not sure what I did wrong here.
Custom Ability is: Specialized School
Secondary ability is: Forbidden School
Tertiary Ability is: Arcane Bond
Quaternary Ability is: Rogue Talent
I changed nothing as far as the first three and copied over the Quaternary ability (from the rogue in the Custom ability slot to the gestalts quaternary, including the level in which they get them).
I copied it all over from rogue INTO the wizard.. so I am not sure what I did wrong here.
Custom Ability is: Specialized School
Secondary ability is: Forbidden School
Tertiary Ability is: Arcane Bond
Quaternary Ability is: Rogue Talent
I changed nothing as far as the first three and copied over the Quaternary ability (from the rogue in the Custom ability slot to the gestalts quaternary, including the level in which they get them).
Maidhc O Casain
Well-known member
I remember having that happen. Unfortunately it's been so long since I made these classes I can't remember exactly what I did to fix this problem . . .
But I know that it CAN be fixed! I've looked at my old files and can't find it for the life of me now . . . Sorry about that.
I'll keep looking, but in the meantime maybe one of the more technical members here - or possibly Matthias - will post the solution.
But I know that it CAN be fixed! I've looked at my old files and can't find it for the life of me now . . . Sorry about that.
I'll keep looking, but in the meantime maybe one of the more technical members here - or possibly Matthias - will post the solution.
ShadowChemosh
Well-known member
Each Custom Ability is not only linked to a class but to a specific Ability (ie Primary, Secondary, Tertiary, Quaternary). So you would have to make duplicates of each of those Custom Abilities and then make them Available to Class and then finally make it match to the ability which is located in the Not Primary Ability?.
ShadowChemosh
Well-known member
So looking a little more the other thing to do is under the say Custom Ability Name their is Allow Custom Abilities.... In their for your first three you will need to pick Wizard. This will allow your custom class to pick the Wizard abilities associated to the first three Abilities.
The last one for the rogue will require you to create duplicates of the rogue talents so they can be set to the Quaternary Ability level. As I am pretty sure the rogue talents are normally set to the First or Custom Ability.
The last one for the rogue will require you to create duplicates of the rogue talents so they can be set to the Quaternary Ability level. As I am pretty sure the rogue talents are normally set to the First or Custom Ability.
Maidhc O Casain
Well-known member
Thanks, ShadowChemosh!
Now if I could only make Gestalts from two spellcasting classes . . . Unfortunately it doesn't look like that's likely to happen.
Now if I could only make Gestalts from two spellcasting classes . . . Unfortunately it doesn't look like that's likely to happen.
You could try a complicated attempt:
Make a class that adds the second spellcasting but has scripts that:
decrease the "number of HD"
lower the saves
deduct skill points
In short, erase the fact a hit dice was added.
Actually, there's a way around duplicating the Rogue talents. I want to get a few more things done before the next update, but the cCstSpExpr field on a class stores the expression that tells HL what things can be selected for the primary custom abilities table for a class. cCstS4Expr is the quaternary abilities' expression.
Those are added at Final/9999999 (7 9's), so at Final/99999999 (8 9's), you could overwrite the field's text, replacing the cCstS4Expr text for your gestalt class with the cCstSpExpr for a Rogue.
Hopefully one of the others can take that and figure out the details, otherwise I'll be able to lay them out Monday.
If you want an example, something in either Cleric or Druid does this to allow access to Barbarian Rage powers (although the code will need to be changed somewhat, since you're working from a script on the class, instead of a script on the archetype or domain).
Those are added at Final/9999999 (7 9's), so at Final/99999999 (8 9's), you could overwrite the field's text, replacing the cCstS4Expr text for your gestalt class with the cCstSpExpr for a Rogue.
Hopefully one of the others can take that and figure out the details, otherwise I'll be able to lay them out Monday.
If you want an example, something in either Cleric or Druid does this to allow access to Barbarian Rage powers (although the code will need to be changed somewhat, since you're working from a script on the class, instead of a script on the archetype or domain).
Just a thought - Archetypes may be useful for cutting down the amount of work required for the process of creating a gestalt class - you don't have to duplicate the first class, and you can use the archetype to apply the changes in BAB, saves, HD, and the abilities of the second class. (I'd recommend leaving the more complex class (the spellcaster) as the un-altered class and make the archetype for the other class - as they suggested at the beginning of this forum - start with Wizard and then modify with Rogue).
It still can't get around the fact that only one type of spellcasting, 2 bonus feat tables, and 4 custom ability tables exist for each class, unfortunately.
It still can't get around the fact that only one type of spellcasting, 2 bonus feat tables, and 4 custom ability tables exist for each class, unfortunately.
Maidhc O Casain
Well-known member
Hmmm. Until now I'd been thinking of the Archetypes as making it more complicated to do a Gestalt Class . . . (i.e. If one of my players wants an archetype for one or both of the classes that go into his Gestalt). I'd not thought of making a new Archetype for one of the classes to make the modifications to the original class . . .
If I understand correctly, you could make an archetype of the Rogue with no HD, BAB or save progression, then add it to the original class? So the character would have two classes, but only one of them would actually grant HD/BAB/etc.
If I understand correctly, you could make an archetype of the Rogue with no HD, BAB or save progression, then add it to the original class? So the character would have two classes, but only one of them would actually grant HD/BAB/etc.
You would make an Wizard archetype that applied all the differences between Rogue and Wizard as overrides to the Wizard class (if anything's better, make that change). It would also add all of the Rogue class abilities. That way, you don't have to touch the Wizard class in order to make this change.
For example, the "Skll Points Per Level" option on the archetype would be 8, since you want to override the wizard's skill points/level with the rogue's. The "Hit Dice Override" would also be 8 - again, use the Rogue's better hit die instead of the wizard's.
Archetypes only alter a class that's already on the character, they aren't classes on their own.
For example, the "Skll Points Per Level" option on the archetype would be 8, since you want to override the wizard's skill points/level with the rogue's. The "Hit Dice Override" would also be 8 - again, use the Rogue's better hit die instead of the wizard's.
Archetypes only alter a class that's already on the character, they aren't classes on their own.
With the Archetype, how do you add in the Rogue Talents and the powers as far as Evasion and Trapsense and the like. Using the Archetype would make sense and seemingly make more sense.
Can you kind of give me an idea or give me a break down on how to do it by field and button by button?? I know I am asking for a lot here but this would REALLY help out!!
I Really REALLY do appreciate this sir!!
Thanks!
Can you kind of give me an idea or give me a break down on how to do it by field and button by button?? I know I am asking for a lot here but this would REALLY help out!!
I Really REALLY do appreciate this sir!!
Thanks!
ShadowChemosh
Well-known member
Rogue talents are under the Custom Ability tab. So you would need to go their and do a New(Copy) which is the blue button left bottom. So find for example Bleeding Attack and select it and give it a new Unique ID. Then look for Not Primary Ability? and change it to be Quaternary. This then sets it to be the Fourth one instead of the primary(ie first one).ShadowChemosh,
What you said makes a whole lot of sense and I JUST about got it... except for Rogue Talents. Can you explain to me how to do the Quaternary skills and how to copy it.. what tab to go to do so?? I can't find it for the life of me
Last you need to change the class this Talent is associated to. Um think its called Class in the top left side of the window. So you need to un-select the rogue class and instead select your new class. Once done do a Test Now! and then this new talent should display for your new class.
ShadowChemosh
Well-known member
As far as I am aware this is correct. Though their are not that many and if you are using this character yourself I would just do the ones you need.
Going by what Mathias said it could maybe be done by a script, but I am not familiar with it and doubt I will have free time this weekend to write it. Though it is good information to think about for the future.Yea I was unfamiliar with the scripting on what Mathias was talking about too. It sounds simple enough but well.. considering I am almost done with the one I have AT the moment it is not that easy especially with the time line I have right now.
I appreciate the information so far and if anyone else has any ideas on how to make this easier, please chime in for those of us that do NOT know much about the editor
I would love to learn the scripting on this program and how to do it. I am starting to go through the written tutorials again and trying to learn from them too.. But not that easily. If only there were some videos ::wink:wink::
Thanks!!
I appreciate the information so far and if anyone else has any ideas on how to make this easier, please chime in for those of us that do NOT know much about the editor
I would love to learn the scripting on this program and how to do it. I am starting to go through the written tutorials again and trying to learn from them too.. But not that easily. If only there were some videos ::wink:wink::
Thanks!!