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- The Lone Wolf Development Team
Realm Works vs. Virtual Tabletops
- Thread starter RavenX
- Start date
Realm Works is not VTT. It is campaign manager and it is doing this job as perfect as possible. I use it all the time alongside Fantasy Grounds to run my games. Everything is in Realm Works (unless I have the modules in FG, then I don't do double work) and I have the two applications opened. In face to face games it is the same with the main difference that we have real table. 
Not sure it sells the players on it but RW is by far the best tool in existence for organizing and connecting the elements of a campaign world. Automatic linking by itself is worth every penny I paid for the program. The rest of what it does is just gravy built on top of that.
The player version has always been a hard sell tbh. I bought the package deal a long time ago, 5 licenses for $30, and to the best of my knowledge at most 1 of my players ever even installed it.
Players don't tend to be as invested in a homebrew campaign which is of interest to their small circle of friends as people get in something like Faerun which they can discuss with thousands of other people.
It might be of more interest when/if things like player journals get implemented which let the players "interact" with the campaign world rather than just passively reading about it.
My experience is similar to kbs666's.,, even providing the licenses to my players did not motivate them to install RW.
In part it may come down to how involved between sessions the players are. If they're like mine (don't take notes, don't really communicate about the game between sessions, expect the GM to be their in-game memory), then they likely won't be willing to install RW. On the other hand, those who act differently (when RW wasn't around) may take to it better... they may find it a replacement for notes they can consult between sessions (which is what the Player version is really for).
In part it may come down to how involved between sessions the players are. If they're like mine (don't take notes, don't really communicate about the game between sessions, expect the GM to be their in-game memory), then they likely won't be willing to install RW. On the other hand, those who act differently (when RW wasn't around) may take to it better... they may find it a replacement for notes they can consult between sessions (which is what the Player version is really for).
Same here, none of my players is interested in the player version, as they tend not to invest too much time between sessions. But they do use the PFSRD on their phones during play to look up things and already said they would use the web view for players to look up NPC Names and the like.
The group I was running at the time the player version came out did split the cost of the 5 pack and probably looked at it briefly after installing it, but I think that was about it. I didn't understand how the player version would work and thought it would be live interaction so I didn't have to broadcast onto a second screen. I was disappointed in it and my players weren't thrilled. But as a tool for me as the GM and keeping everything organized it's a gold mine. I love to search the internet for images to support the story and RW allows me to include the images.
I had a chance to chat with the guy who is most into note taking and my campaigns lore in my player group about why even he doesn't use player edition. He did install it when I gave him the license but he found the whole thing disappointing. Part of that may be my fault and part of that is the lack of things like player journals to let him do anything but passively read the material.
First my end of things, Player edition only shows things that have been revealed. So while my main realm may be pushing several thousand topics and lots of those topics are quite extensive most of that material isn't revealed to the players and 3 years ago, IIRC, when I gave him the license even less was revealed so browsing the realm wasn't a very interesting experience.
The problem with it being an entirely passive experience, people are used to following links and reading stuff by now but as sparse as a partially revealed realm is it doesn't hold the attention very well. I think if the player had some way to record their adventures in the realm and link into the realm that might encourage more interest at least among some players. The note taker certainly thought that might make him take another look.
First my end of things, Player edition only shows things that have been revealed. So while my main realm may be pushing several thousand topics and lots of those topics are quite extensive most of that material isn't revealed to the players and 3 years ago, IIRC, when I gave him the license even less was revealed so browsing the realm wasn't a very interesting experience.
The problem with it being an entirely passive experience, people are used to following links and reading stuff by now but as sparse as a partially revealed realm is it doesn't hold the attention very well. I think if the player had some way to record their adventures in the realm and link into the realm that might encourage more interest at least among some players. The note taker certainly thought that might make him take another look.
I don't know how or why my first post was written, it wasn't my intention to simply post my name in this thread... But in saying that I do have my few cents.
At what point does it help the GM to be the Memory of the player. The people you game with have memories of their own, if the player's aren't aiding their abilities to recall things, I don't see why the GM should have to take up the added struggle of reminding player's time and time again.
Everyone has access to pen and paper, a good way of keeping notes these days are using things like (artifical) "Digital Paper" where you write it in a book, scan the pages with your phone, and those images can instally be uploaded, sent to different email accounts, available in the cloud or other services and can be linked into Realm Works so it can't be lost. If your notes don't include important information and you forget, then why should those important pieces be picked up by the GM.
The GM has a responsibility to correct player misinformation, however they aren't required to give perfect memory recall on details, and players using abilities that let them recall information for a period of time in perfect memory aren't exempt from at least trying to record information.
To be clear, my issue isn't the GM recalling information when needed, its this idea that players aren't investing time and resources into the campaign as they need too. And part of that is making notes, learning the tools to take notes and how to read and reference them when needed. Realm Works could help that if it allowed Player input (which I haven't even looked into yet), but there are ways around that, and that are easily available.
At what point does it help the GM to be the Memory of the player. The people you game with have memories of their own, if the player's aren't aiding their abilities to recall things, I don't see why the GM should have to take up the added struggle of reminding player's time and time again.
Everyone has access to pen and paper, a good way of keeping notes these days are using things like (artifical) "Digital Paper" where you write it in a book, scan the pages with your phone, and those images can instally be uploaded, sent to different email accounts, available in the cloud or other services and can be linked into Realm Works so it can't be lost. If your notes don't include important information and you forget, then why should those important pieces be picked up by the GM.
The GM has a responsibility to correct player misinformation, however they aren't required to give perfect memory recall on details, and players using abilities that let them recall information for a period of time in perfect memory aren't exempt from at least trying to record information.
To be clear, my issue isn't the GM recalling information when needed, its this idea that players aren't investing time and resources into the campaign as they need too. And part of that is making notes, learning the tools to take notes and how to read and reference them when needed. Realm Works could help that if it allowed Player input (which I haven't even looked into yet), but there are ways around that, and that are easily available.
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MaxSupernova
Well-known member
> this idea that players aren't investing time and resources into the campaign as they need too. And part of that is making notes, learning the tools to take notes and how to read and reference them when needed.
I'm 49, been gaming since I was 13, and I've had maybe a small handful of players that I would consider at that sort of level.
Sometimes you have to make do with what you have, and realize that if you want to play, you're going to have to do the lion's share of the work.
I'm 49, been gaming since I was 13, and I've had maybe a small handful of players that I would consider at that sort of level.
Sometimes you have to make do with what you have, and realize that if you want to play, you're going to have to do the lion's share of the work.
Viking2054
Well-known member
First, some of the best game moments in my long career as a GM have come by players misinterpreting information and me not correcting them. The trouble they've gotten into through their antics caused by misinterpretations and my quick wit to spring shit on them because of that misinterpretation is just priceless.
Second, my experience is that in a regular gaming group only 1 or 2 players take notes while the others rely on those that do take notes. That means 3 or 4 lazy bastards that can't be troubled to pay attention or take notes out of a group of 5 players. Add to the fact that most groups probably play once a week and real life causes memory loss of the less exciting things and voila, you have a perfect GM's storm.
Lexin
Well-known member
That happened to my characters in the game I ran just yesterday. It was hilarious. Well, for me. Less so for them, but they all survived, which is a score for them, I suppose.
I don't correct my players when they start tossing around their faulty memories of some NPC or location. What I do is when that NPC is physically present in a scene or the party is at a location etc. I put that topic up in player view particularly when they've learned something new about it.