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New Druid Archetype

H

Hexamony

Member
I just got the APG Data Package for Hero Lab and already I'm a little stymied on how to do something fancy.

In the game my GM has allowed me to go with a different Druid Archetype and he's given me the rough outlines for it. I already discovered how to New (Copy) an existing Archetype so I can see how it's made. (Incredibly useful that feature.)

However, there is one part of the Archetype that I don't quite understand. The Minion Restriction one. I open it and it merely gives me a list of pre-defined lists, I assume, of animal companions not allowed, but I don't see how to make a new list for the Leopard Shaman.

Hexamony
 
On the archetype, create the name of the new list. Use Test Now! on your archetype

On the Race, Anim Comp tab, make copies of the races you want to allow for this list - while you're selecting them, write down the unique Id that's listed in Parentheses, and place that Id in the "Replaces Thing Id" box on the center-right. Give your thing a new unique Id, and then about 2/3 of the way through the list, find the "Minion Allowed For?" option, and select the list you created for this animal. You've now replaced the existing race in HL with a version that's allowed for the list this archetype restricts you to.
 
I only now got around to trying to figure this out but I'm completely lost. I recently discovered that with some things you can duplicate them and make changes, like you might with a new animal, but I'm finding making a new archetype from scratch is quite difficult.

I'm trying to make a Leopard Shaman, a variation on the Lion Shaman with changes my GM made. As it is, flipping back and forth between the Read-Only Lion Shaman archetype to try and make the Leopard one is overwhelming.

Any advice?
 
Open two copies of Hero Lab, and open the editor in each - open the original in one editor, and the new one in the other editor. Switching windows, instead of having to flip back and forth between separate items within the same editor, may be easier. It also means you don't have to delete the originals you've copied before you press Test Now! on the new copy.
 
It seems to be a hobby of mine to bite off more than I expected. My group meets twice a month so haven't been working on this till now and wow.. opening two copies of Hero Lab so I can switch between the example and the one I'm working on was a great idea.

However, I had no idea what went into making an archetype. I just noticed that Lion Shaman relies on creating new Class Specials. Maybe I should take this slow and only do what applies to my present level. This suddenly is gonna be quite the undertaking.

Does Lion Shaman tie to other things besides Class Specials? Sure, I can poke at every button and figure it out on my own but I'm hoping someone will already have the answer.

I also have thoughts on the Eval Scripts but nothing that can be defined as a question yet.

Thanks for the advice so far. *hammers away*
 
This is exactly what I've had to do to make the Gestalt classes I'm using for one of my games. It's tedious and time consuming, but ultimately worth it, IMO.
 
Whew, in the last 30 minutes the only progress I've made is to further confuse myself. It's not a list I'm making but a spider web of inter-connected bits and pieces.

Is there anyone familiar with building Archetypes that might be willing to talk with me over an IM service? I feel I need help at a pace and speed that forums lack.
 
I'm making progress, albeit slowly. I've figured a few things about adding new abilities to an Archetype but can't seem to tie them together.

Using Lion Shaman as my unchangeable blueprint, I've discovered the Shaman Totem Transformation is a Class Special but the abilities that make up the transformations are Custom Abilities. Somehow, I've gotten Hero Lab to show 'Add more Totem Transformations' to the Druid tab but clicking it says there is nothing selectable.

I'm also still lost on how to make a leopard the only selectable companion for this archetype. I got close, I think, but the pop-up boxes show the ID I gave the list and not the description..

This is overwhelming but each step further I make feels great. Now if only the steps didn't require a climb check with a DC 20.

Edit: I discovered the amazing Tools->Compile Data Files option. It's fixed the problem with the Animal Companion selection part but I am utterly stuck on Shaman Totem Transformations. I looked through most tabs twice for maybe some breadcrumb I missed but to no avail.
 
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On each of the custom abilities, the second option "Available to Classes" is where that custom ability is marked as belonging to a specific class (or in this case, a specific archetype) - so, when you make the custom abilities that are available to this archetype (you'll probably be able to start by making copies of the totem transformations that are already there), you'll assign them as belonging to the Leopard Shaman archetype.

On each of the animal shaman archetypes, you'll see that the "Additional Minion" option (which is supposed to be named "Additional Minion Restrictions") is set. So, for your new archetype, you'll want to create a new list there, specifically for the leopard shaman.

Then, on the Race, Anim Comp tab, make a copy of any animal companion races you want to add to this archetype's allowed list. Each of those will have a "Minion Allowed For?" option - you'll add the Leopard Shaman to the list of things that are allowed to take this companion, then you'll make this animal companion a replacement for what was already there by entering the old Unique Id of the race you're copying into the "replaces thing Id" box on the center-right of the screen.
 
Thanks Mathias. I actually figured out the animal companion restrictions right around when I figured out how to compile the data files. Was the only way for the various tabs to see what I was doing.

However, two questions or thoughts. I don't understand the reasoning behind replacing the ID of other things. What's the point of doing that?

Also, using the other Shamans as my example I've learned how they work but not how to do it myself. With the other Shamans, in the Class Tab, you click Totem Transformations and it gives you a list of 3 or 4 items (depending on the archetype). I've tracked those elements down but I can't get them to work together. In the Archetype tab I can't add the Leopard Totem Transformation as a gained ability. Yet somehow I have made it appear on the Class Tab but I haven't been able to link Leopard's Speed to it. I feel like I'm missing something but I crawled all over what I could find in the other Shaman archetypes, mirroring every entry I can but somehow missing something.
 
If you were to copy the "Cat, Small" animal companion, in order to make a version that's allowed for the leopard shaman, creating that new version as a replacement of the old means that you'll only see one copy of "Cat, Small" when you're deciding what race your animal companion should be, and it means that if someone writes a feat that says "if you've picked cat, small as your animal companion, it gets +2 DEX", that feat will work on your revised version, too, since you've set it to replace the original.

Each of the animal shaman archetypes adds a new list of secondary custom abilities to the druid class. That's all handled on the archetype.

On the custom abilities table, the powers that can be added as totem transformations use the "Available to Classes" option to set that specific animal shaman archetype as one of the classes they are allowed for, and they set "Not Primary Ability?" to "Secondary".

The "Totem Transformation" class special has nothing to do with picking the abilities - all it's there for is to serve as a reference for how the ability works, and to determine whether the ability takes a standard action, move action, or swift action (depending on the character's druid level).
 
I don't know how or why but it's working now. Last night I had to reboot so I closed both copies of Hero Lab I had running (So that I could more easily flip between Lion Shaman and the one I'm working on) then today when I loaded it up, I tested what I had and everything is working as it should. Though I don't know how it's working.

Anyhow, I have a fresh problem. One of my Totem Transformations gives me a +4 Racial Bonus to Stealth. I know it's an Eval Script, Post-Levels, but after that I don't know what the code would be.
 
Can you think of a race that grants itself a racial bonus to stealth? (Scanning a few pages into the Bestiary, I came across the Archon, Hound and the Basilisk that have stealth bonuses) (or you could look at the Cat, Leopard if this archetype grants a situational stealth bonus like the leopard, although in that case, you're looking at the racial specials).

It'll be the exact same code for this to grant that bonus.

Remember that just compiling the files doesn't apply the changes you've made - ctrl-r (quick reload) will compile them, then reload them.
 
Heh, considering I've been working at this on my own without really poking at the cryptic help files I was wholly unaware of Ctrl-R. Knowing that will be incredibly handy.

Oh. Sometimes I get stuck. I didn't think to look at other entries entirely for an example of a stealth bonus. Failed that insight roll.
 
I've done it. Attached is a rough edit of the Leopard Shaman. Later I'll go in and add all the text descriptions. Right now I wanted others to look at it so they can see if I forgot anything.

Archetype: Leopard Shaman (For Druid)
Also Includes: Black Leopard Animal Companion (Not just a skin change) and Grab based on Grab (Same Size) rules.

As I reach to hit 'Submit Reply' I realize that half the new powers won't make a lot of sense without the descriptions yet.. but I'm too excited at my progress to not share right now.
 

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