• Please note: In an effort to ensure that all of our users feel welcome on our forums, we’ve updated our forum rules. You can review the updated rules here: http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=5528.

    If a fellow Community member is not following the forum rules, please report the post by clicking the Report button (the red yield sign on the left) located on every post. This will notify the moderators directly. If you have any questions about these new rules, please contact support@wolflair.com.

    - The Lone Wolf Development Team

Mutants and Masterminds 3rd Edition / DC Adventures

S

Shadowchaser

Well-known member
Okay, for anyone who hasn't seen the Mutants and Masterminds page today... Green Ronin is releasing officially licensed DC comics supplements for the Mutants and Masterminds game. My questions for Colen and the gang (which may be premature) are:

Have you guys talked with the Green Ronin folks about these?

Will any of the DC Adventures content be released in Hero Lab?

If so, will they require additional licenses?


I wouldn't be surprised at additional licenses, and depending on the content I'd be happy to pay a reasonable fee for them. If it requires a new set of rules to do, I'd be happy to pay 20 dollars for 'em. If it's more a question of just licensing the characters (and possibly artwork) for the DC supplements, I'd expect to pay a bit less... but I wouldn't be surprised if DC wanted the money on a 'per-book' basis instead of the 'one-license gets you all the bonus stuff' basis like Green Ronin has been doing with the various books so far.

What do you think, Sirs?
 
I just wanted to say Ive read the post on green ronins site and am extremely excited about this.... in fact i was thinking immediatly after getting mand m " i wish they had a dc licinse for this system lol) In fact - I have waited a long long time for a decent easy to use dc game since DC heroes second edition left print.
I only hope 2 things...1) hero lab gets to incorporate dc adventures in some fashion....even if it means add'l licenses and 2) on a purly selfish note i hope GR includes roster cards - ala dc heroes- with the two roster volumes.
 
I would love to run, or better yet play, a Green Lantern Corps game, or a GL game that crosses over from the DCU into the Freedomverse.
 
Mutants and Masterminds 3rd Edition

From http://www.greenronin.com/:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

GREEN RONIN TO RELEASE MUTANTS & MASTERMINDS THIRD EDITION
Classic Superhero RPG Gets New Edition This Fall

May 12, 2010--SEATTLE, WA: Green Ronin Publishing announced today that it is releasing a new edition of its critically acclaimed Mutants & Masterminds roleplaying game in the fall.

"We've had five years of feedback from one of the most active fanbases in roleplaying gaming," said Green Ronin President Chris Pramas. "Once we knew we'd be doing the DC ADVENTURES game, it just made sense to take that feedback and use it create the next iteration of the game."

Mutants & Masterminds debuted in 2002 and was an instant hit. A second edition followed in 2005 and in the ensuing years Green Ronin has released over 25 support books for the game. The third edition builds on these releases and evolves the rules.

"Our goal has been to make Mutants & Masterminds an even better game," said lead designer Steve Kenson. "We worked to simplify some elements of the system and fix known issues, while retaining the flexibility and fast-paced play fans have enjoyed."

"Mutants & Masterminds third edition and DC ADVENTURES share a common rule set," added Pramas, "and books from one line are compatible with the other."

The action begins this fall with the release of the Mutants & Masterminds Hero's Handbook. This full color core rulebook contains all the rules needed to play the game. More information and previews about Mutants & Masterminds third edition will appear on www.greenronin.com and www.mutantsandmasterminds.com in the coming months.
Click to expand...


So it may be a little early to ask, but how will this impact Hero Lab? Will licenses be updated or would we have to purchase a separate 3E license?
 
I'm pretty happy with 2nd edition, can't see that they need a 3rd for anything other than their profit margin. Still, I'm interested enough to look at the rules, and hopefully Lone Wolf won't cease supporting 2nd when 3rd comes along.
 
Well, if the rules were changed enough to make DC Adventures incompatible with 2E, then a 3E may be deemed necessary. That remains to be seen, I guess.

I guess it's a moot question if Hero Lab gains a DC license (since it's the same ruleset), but if not, then I wonder how M&M will be handled come fall.
 
Let's be optimistic about this. :)

Maybe they've taken all this good feedback & tweaks & "can you clarify" questions that have come from the creators & users of Hero Lab and thus, 3rd Edition will be completely in synch with this fabulous software. :D

Nigel Fogg, aka The Wayfarer
 
Given all of the other D20 games supported here, I suspect the conversion will not be huge. Probably just changing some formulas for grappling bonuses, addition or removal of skills, feats, and powers, that kind of thing. Licensing could be yet another issue, of course. *sigh* Most likely a different license entirely. Which sheds new light in some ways on how GR has given such free reign for all of the supplement material to be available in one package. If they were planning on releasing a new edition, there's no need to hoard the existing material for the old edition.

I reserve opinion until I see the new edition, of course. I'm hoping that the changes will be minor enough that we could even apply an "import 2E character" option that would take the existing stats and do the mechanical conversions such that we get the bare-bones character even if they points aren't quite right at first due to cost changes.
 
I've merged the MM3 and DC Adventures threads, since our response covers both of those games. Here's what's going to happen:

We will be supporting Mutants & Masterminds 3rd edition as a separate game system for Hero Lab. It will require a chunk of work from us to convert the old M&M data files over to the new system, which will be treated as a separate game.

We're discussing the possibility of a DC Adventures license with Green Ronin right now. DC Adventures is harder for us to support than "plain" M&M, because there's a major licensor involved - DC - and any licensing agreement we sign with GR would have to be approved by DC. That makes it harder for us to get something signed, since the license needs to be acceptable to 3 parties instead of 2.

However, the above two game systems are compatible (to quote the GR announcement, "books from one line are compatible with the other"). Even if we do not license DC Adventures, you should still be able to create DCA characters in Hero Lab, using the M&M3 game system.

We will continue to support the M&M2 data files with bug fixes and new Hero Lab features, just like we do with the d20 system. Even though we now support both d20 "successors", 4e and Pathfinder, we continue to work on the d20 system files, fixing bugs and adding new features. We'll continue working on the M&M2 files the same way.

Hopefully this answers your questions - please let me know if you have further ones.
 
It's my understanding that Lone Wolf is a fairly small shop. Building a dataset from the ground up is a fairly time-intensive endeavor.
 
Wow I guess i didn't read GR's annoucement close enough either that or i was blinded by my excitement for DCA! I COMPLETELY overlooked the mention of the 3rd edition of m&m. I just pray to the gods of RPG development that This 'new' Edition of mutants and masterminds is NOT in an attempt to bring the superhero game more in line with 4e d20 - GOD THAT WOULD BE A CATASTOPHIC MISTAKE for what is for the most part is a great flowing and intutative game system. as a prime example one of the mayjor selling points of current m&m is the lack of conventional "classes structure " in favor of a more open albeit a tad more accounting-style character building. as I understand 4e at t'is core are very narrow focused power stuctures and narrowly defined classes.this may or may not "simplify" creation. in my humble opinion this would be a giant step backward 4 this great game and totally inappropreate for superhero games. its already sucked most of the life from D&D. I hope my fears are unfounded.
 
Last edited:
Colen said:
We will be supporting Mutants & Masterminds 3rd edition as a separate game system for Hero Lab. It will require a chunk of work from us to convert the old M&M data files over to the new system, which will be treated as a separate game.
Click to expand...

Hiya Colen,
With the license switch, could it be possible for those that invested in the 2e license to switch to 3e? I don't need the 2e support, as I'll be switching over to 3e when it comes out and hate having paid for something I won't be using anymore. Is this a viable option?
 
Someone asked a similar question on the M&M forums. Here's what I posted there:

As others have said, it's hard for us to give discounts or free copies in situations like this, for a variety of reasons. M&M3 isn't going to be out for several months now - not until fall this year, according to GR. That means that if you purchased the M&M2 package for Hero Lab in March, and M&M3 comes out in, say, October or November (just an example - I don't know when the actual release date will be), you'll have had 6+ months use of Hero Lab and the M&M2e data files, which seems pretty reasonable to me.

As I said in my post above, when 3e comes out we won't be abandoning 2e - we'll still be adding new features to Hero Lab, fixing bugs in the 2e data files, and incorporating new features like we have been. So the 2e data files won't be useless when 3e comes out - you can keep using them as long as your gaming group keeps playing 2nd edition.

Not only that, as others have stated, we already give you a discount when buying a new game system - when M&M3 comes out, buying it as an add-on will only cost you $20, which is 1/3 less than the cost of Hero Lab initially. So, my advice is to use Hero Lab with the M&M2 data set to help you enjoy your current M&M2 game - when your gaming group converts over to M&M3 in 6+ months time, you can upgrade to the new data files at our $20 discounted rate.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
 
I have to say, Colen, that this seems reasonable to me. Hell, I've certainly gotten my money's worth out of the M&M2 dataset. A discount is always nice, but supporting the folks who make good with their products is good, too. Lone Wolf might not have all the datasets I'm looking for, but the ones you do have, you do great with.
 
Last edited:
Heh, I too would love to swap a license for M&M3E(the Authoring Kit, actually, as I haven't been able to use it at all, due to my completely out of date programming skills), but I understand if that's not an option.

More importantly, do you guys have an estimated release window for M&M3E? I understand if you can't give a date (after all, this is a lot of work we're asking you to do), I'm just wondering if you've already been working on it and what you estimate your target date for it to be?

Oh, and I know this really isn't for me to say, but I am perfectly happy to just get the M&M3E stuff if the DC Adventures license is too expensive to get. Though, if you CAN get the DC Adventures license, I hope it'll be worth your time and effort! :)

Thanks again for your hard work with Hero Lab, guys! I can't wait to use Hero Lab with DC Adventures, license or not! =D
 
We want to have the M&M3 data package available on the day that the M&M3 Heroes Handbook goes on sale, like we did with Pathfinder last year. If the stars align it may be out earlier (for use with DC Adventures), but that's still to be determined.
 
Colen said:
We want to have the M&M3 data package available on the day that the M&M3 Heroes Handbook goes on sale, like we did with Pathfinder last year. If the stars align it may be out earlier (for use with DC Adventures), but that's still to be determined.
Click to expand...

Yay! I sure hope that's the case! You guys don't do preorders, do you? It'd be cool to just have the program 'Update' with DC Adve- er- I mean M&M 3E when you guys get it working, without me having to run and buy it then. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top