Multiple Attacks + Two Weapon Fighting

[EightBitz]

This is a point that has always confused me, back to the days of AD&D. And I think, even with Hero Lab, I've been short-changing myself.

I'm running an unchained monk. Level 11. Amulet of Mighty Fists +3 and a Monk's Robe. Two-weapon fighting feat.

If I go to weapons, and for unarmed strike, I click 1st for the main hand, I see "Melee: +18/+18/+18/+13/+8, 2d8+7"

I take this to mean that if I attack only with my main hand, I get five attacks with the specified attack bonuses, and each successful hit does 2d8+7 in damage.

If I click 2nd for the off-hand, I see "+16/+16/+16/+11/+6, 2d8+7"

Same thing. Five attacks with the specified bonuses and 2d8+7 in damage.

If I click "Dbl", I see "+16/+16/+16/+11/+6 (Off: +18/+18/+18), 2d8+7/2d8+5"

If I'm reading this right, then, when using both hands, I get a total of eight attacks per round? Is that right?

This is all assuming I choose to use Flurry of Blows as my action for the round. And I guess that's part of my question. Does Flurry of Blows stack with Two Weapon fighting like this?

 

[Minous]

Flurry of blows does not stack with TWF.

 

[Ualaa]

Flurry basically gets you the equivalent of TWF built into the system, at the best possible rate.
You could view the Flurry Bonus and the TWF bonus (extra attacks) as the same kind of bonus, that does not stack with itself.

In addition to the extra attacks, the Flurry is calculated at full base attack bonus, which is relevant for the normal Monk who is a 3/4 BAB class, but not for the Unchained Monk who is already a full BAB combatant.

With a monk's unarmed attacks, I'd just check the primary hand. It is a combination of punches, kicks, knees, elbows, headbutts, etc... and doesn't really matter which.
The primary hand and secondary hand are more for characters with primary and off-hand attacks at different bonuses.
If you check secondary with a monk, you're telling the system that they're 'main' hand is doing it's own separate attack, while a Flurry of Blows is basically a series of unarmed strikes from you without forcing you to use a specific appendage for it.
An armless monk could still Flurry of Blows, and would check the primary hand (despite having no arms), to reflect the appropriate bonuses from their kicking, kneeing, headbutts etc.

 

[Minous]

Easiest way to think of Flurry of blows, and TWF full attack, is that they are both full round actions. You can Flurry in place of a full attack, but you dont get both in a round. TWF modifies the full attack action to get you a secondary attack that you would not have otherwise.

 

[EightBitz]

OK, so this is what I've put together as my cheat sheet.

Unchained Monk
Level 11: +11/+6/+1, 1d10
STR: +4 (attack bonus and damage bonus)
Amulet of Mighty Fists: +3 (attack bonus and damage bonus)
Monk's Robe: Raises damage from 1d10 to 2d8

Normal Attack:
+18/+13/+8, 2d8+7
Taking all three attacks would be a full-round action, but I can replace an attack with a movement or some other type of action.

Flurry of Blows:
(Does not stack with Two-Weapon Fighting)
+18/+18/+18/+13/+8, 2d8+7
This IS a full-round action, and if I take any other action, I lose the benefit of the extra two attacks at +18 in addition to one of the other attacks to allow me my action, so I would be down to +18/+13, 2d8+7

Two Weapon Fighting (-2 for each hand):
(Does not stack with Flurry of Blows)
Main Hand: +16/+11/+6, 2d8+5
Offhand: +16, 2d8+5
With the same caveat as a normal attack that taking an action would replace one of these attacks.

In certain, specific situations, as with a Spring attack, I'm making two movements, each of which would replace an attack, so I would only get one attack at +18, 28+7.

 

[Minous]

OK as Monk (unchained) 11 and an 18 STR I am getting:
Normal single attack Bonus:
BAB 11 + 3 Enhancement + 4 STR = 18
Normal full attack is +15/+10 2d8+7

Flurry attack bonus:
BAB 11 + 3 Enhancement + 4 STR = 18
Normal Flurry = +18/+18/+18/+13/+8 2d8+7

TWF:
BAB 11 + 3 Enhancement + 4 STR - 2 TWF = 16
TWF full attack is
+16/+11/+6 2d8+7
+16 2d8+5

All Three are full round actions so you can only take a 5ft. If you move more than 5ft you get a single attack at +18.

 

[EightBitz]

An unchained monk has a slightly better BAB.

 

[Minous]

An unchained monk has a slightly better BAB.

Saw that after posting and just finished re-calculating the math. FYI with spring attack you only get 1 attack at +18. If you want a full attack look into pounce.

 

[Silveras]

Taking all three attacks would be a full-round action, but I can replace an attack with a movement or some other type of action.

The general rule is that making more than 1 attack in a round is a Full-Round Action ... and you cannot move other than a single 5-foot step in that case. Combat Maneuvers can, in some cases, be used as iterative attacks (ex. Sunder, Trip, Disarm) in your sequence, but any other action (such as moving more than 5 ft) limits you to a single attack in the round.

There are exceptions, such as the Pounce that Minous mentioned, but each needs to be specifically called out in the benefits of the Feat (or Class Ability, etc.)

I made a PDF of reference page for my players (attached)... pages 4 and 5 may help. Pages from 12 on are less authoritative.

 

[EightBitz]

OK, thanks everyone!

 

[Aaron]

The general rule is that making more than 1 attack in a round is a Full-Round Action ... and you cannot move other than a single 5-foot step in that case. Combat Maneuvers can, in some cases, be used as iterative attacks (ex. Sunder, Trip, Disarm) in your sequence, but any other action (such as moving more than 5 ft) limits you to a single attack in the round.

There are exceptions, such as the Pounce that Minous mentioned, but each needs to be specifically called out in the benefits of the Feat (or Class Ability, etc.)

I made a PDF of reference page for my players (attached)... pages 4 and 5 may help. Pages from 12 on are less authoritative.

Neat, mind if I share that with my players?

 

[Silveras]

Neat, mind if I share that with my players?

I assume you mean the PDF? Sure.. by all means.

It is mostly stuff I wish had been included in the GM Screen... or that there were alternative versions of the GM Screen for focused purposes.. like Overland Travel, for example.