Manually enter the data or wait for Content Market

[joepacelli]

I'm on the fence as to whether I should start entering the creatures from the Pathfinder Bestiary source books or to wait and hope that I can just purchase this material when the Content Market comes online.

I know your not allowed to give us any information, but I would hate to spend 2-3 weeks of my time entering this information and then find out that this source book is available in the Content Market

Can you provided any direction?

 

[daplunk]

I don't know where this one sits on their to do list but I do know monster manuals came back as a high priority out of the survey.

 

[Thomssen]

I'm in the same boat as you are, only with the Pathfinder Core Book rules. I have most of the feats and skills entered, as I find it very helpful, but I am hesitant to continue if the core book will be part of the content market.

I'm on the fence as to whether I should start entering the creatures from the Pathfinder Bestiary source books or to wait and hope that I can just purchase this material when the Content Market comes online.

I know your not allowed to give us any information, but I would hate to spend 2-3 weeks of my time entering this information and then find out that this source book is available in the Content Market

Can you provided any direction?

 

[Silveras]

The value varies a lot depending on other factors. If you also have HeroLab, there's much less value in entering the monsters in Realm Works. If you are not using HeroLab, there's much more value.

Regardless, how valuable "much more" and "much less" are is a personal evaluation.

My advice:

Based on how you play now, is having the information in Realm Works critically important to you?

Even if the Bestiary (1) is in the first wave (not known.. just for example), there's no reason to assume that Bestiary 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 will be with it. It may be months, or even years, to get them all.

So... with that in mind... if you can't wait out however long it takes to release them, then that should tell you what to do (maybe start from Bestiary 6 and work backwards, hoping to meet the official content along the way?).

If you can wait, but want to do something now, here's a suggestion. There is no official "table/list of what gets revealed on a knowledge check". So you could start entering custom topics for that purpose (something I have done). My custom topics have a few of the Bestiary data points (type, subtypes, CR) for use in measuring the base DC for the check... and snippets with the required total DC in GM notes. So the first snippet may say "This creature is a X, a Reptilian Humanoid that dwells in swamps" with a GM note that the DC for his is 11. The next snippet may say "They have strong claws and a tail that strikes hard", and an attached GM note that the DC for this is 16. And so on.

 

[joepacelli]

While it would be nice to start entering data manually, and even if only Bestiary 1 is the first thing to be released, and 2 through 6 may be 6 months or 1 year away. Even if this is true, and I need to manually enter some of these. I could have the first book as a reference of how they are entering there data. This way I can at least conform to their style and enter my data the same way.

 

[daplunk]

For Monsters I would absolutely be trying to get it from the CM. Entering monsters sucks. Especially since you have to enter them twice effectively. Once in RW and once in HL.

Out of everything I hate entering monsters the most.

 

[joepacelli]

Let's say I spend over 1 month entering all the data for one of the Bestiary books. What if once done I export the file and sell it. Basically charging for my time and service to enter this data in manually.

Can you do this?

 

[daplunk]

No, you would need a license agreement from Paizo in order to use their product for profit. LWD have this agreement already.

 

[Silveras]

Actually, monsters are Open Content as far as I know, so that would be OK.. provided you did nit include any protected names or other protected content, and otherwise obeyed the restrictions of the Open Game License (OGL).

But that's the thing.. you have to obey ALL of the restrictions. You can't use Paizo's art, for one example, because that's not Open Content. And there may be more, especially in future books as Paizo begins to blend more of their closed content into the RPG line of books (which were previously world-neutral).

Product Identity: The following items are hereby identified as Product Identity, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a, Section 1(e), and are not Open Content: All trademarks, registered trademarks, proper names (characters, deities, etc.), dialogue, plots, storylines, locations, characters, artwork, and trade dress. (Elements that have previously been designated as Open Game Content or are in the public domain are not included in this declaration.)

Open Content: Except for material designated as Product Identity (see above), the game mechanics of this Paizo Publishing game product are Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Gaming License version 1.0a Section 1(d). No portion of this work other than the material designated as Open Game Content may be reproduced in any form without written permission.

So you would be best advised to talk to a lawyer about the OGL for what you can and cannot do, before planning to do any such thing.

 

[Farling]

I think Bestiary 6 is also listed as PFRPG rather than OGL on the paizo web site.

 

[joepacelli]

So if I create my World in RW and I spend the time to enter Bestiary's 1-6, along with other source books. And then I export my world, can I freely give this to someone else or do I need to strip all Paizo, and other 3rd party content from the Realm before freely giving it away?

I truly understand the power of RW from a gaming perspective helping me. But if 2 years later another player in the group says he was to be the GM and run a campaign in Pathfinder Inner Sea World. But would I need to ask if he owns all the source books I used in my Realm before giving them the exported file?

 

[daplunk]

Personally I just let the other members of my table DM using my copy of Realm Works. There are two other guys about to start DMing and they are getting their own copies, and I'm sure there is an official answer and then there's what happens between a closed gaming group.

 

[Silveras]

I think Bestiary 6 is also listed as PFRPG rather than OGL on the paizo web site.

The early Paizo materials would be listed as "[Title] (OGL)" to advertise that they were D&D 3.5 compatible. The entirety of the Pathfinder RPG is published under the OGL to make 100% of the rules content publicly available. "[Title] (PFRPG)" is now used to specifically indicate that the Pathfinder RPG has become its own thing.. it is still "backwards compatible" with D&D 3.5, but that has less and less meaning as time goes by and it develops in its own way. As a legal matter, it is still an Open Game License product.

Bestiary 6 has the same declarations as Bestiary 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 ... which is part of why I picked Bestiary 4 for my example. They're identical, so it doesn't matter which specifically you use as an example.

 

[Silveras]

So if I create my World in RW and I spend the time to enter Bestiary's 1-6, along with other source books. And then I export my world, can I freely give this to someone else or do I need to strip all Paizo, and other 3rd party content from the Realm before freely giving it away?

I truly understand the power of RW from a gaming perspective helping me. But if 2 years later another player in the group says he was to be the GM and run a campaign in Pathfinder Inner Sea World. But would I need to ask if he owns all the source books I used in my Realm before giving them the exported file?

Anything you create yourself is yours to do with as you will.
Anything you copy from someone else... especially a published work.. belongs to THEM, and can only be used in the ways they have given permission.

So, technically, yes, before giving a copy of "your world" to someone else, you should be stripping out everything you did not personally create unless you also have something to indicate permission to re-use their content.

The Open Game License is a set of those permissions. It does not cover world-specific names, places, and events. So, pretty much all of the non-mechanics content from the Inner Sea World Guide is "Product Identity" or protected content -- NOT allowed to be shared. Even the names of some Feats, Traits, Prestige Classes, and Spells may be protected content (which is why sites like d20pfsrd MUST use replacement names for them).

Paizo also has a Community Use Policy (CUP) that allows some content to be used in limited ways (which is why sites like the Archives of Nethys can use the protected names that d20pfsrd cannot use).

If you export a copy and give it to a friend, technically you're pirating the contents you are not permitted to distribute (1 copy or 1 million.. once you give it away, you're distributing it; the numbers are just a matter of scale). Is that something you're going to be hunted down for? No, not at all likely. But if you put it somewhere that lots of people can at it.. that's a bigger deal and could lead to court.

 

[ErinRigh]

So if I create my World in RW and I spend the time to enter Bestiary's 1-6, along with other source books. And then I export my world, can I freely give this to someone else or do I need to strip all Paizo, and other 3rd party content from the Realm before freely giving it away?

I truly understand the power of RW from a gaming perspective helping me. But if 2 years later another player in the group says he was to be the GM and run a campaign in Pathfinder Inner Sea World. But would I need to ask if he owns all the source books I used in my Realm before giving them the exported file?

I believe that "legally" no you can't share your realm with copywrited material in it's entirety, with your buddy, but I HIGHLY doubt, Paizo or LWD is going to kick down your door and seize your 'puter, for giving your realm to your buddy for personal gaming.

If you SOLD it to him, that might be a different story

 

[joepacelli]

But if they also own all the source books within my Realm I would assume then it's perfectly legal to share my Realm with them, correct?

 

[Parody]

Generally, no. Unless the original publisher has given you the right to redistribute their copyrighted text in a modified form you cannot give it to anyone, regardless of whether or not they have a copy in a different form as well.

Realistically, if you aren't sharing it outside of your group nobody's going to care.

If you want a full breakdown, however, you should be consulting a lawyer well-versed in intellectual property law rather than some folks on the Internet. :)

 

[ErinRigh]

Generally, no. Unless the original publisher has given you the right to redistribute their copyrighted text in a modified form you cannot give it to anyone, regardless of whether or not they have a copy in a different form as well.

Realistically, if you aren't sharing it outside of your group nobody's going to care.

If you want a full breakdown, however, you should be consulting a lawyer well-versed in intellectual property law rather than some folks on the Internet. :)

Parody is right. In Canada, everybody is entitled to a half-hour legal advice from a lawyer, though I have no idea about elsewhere. You really should consult a lawyer if you plan do distribute it, especially if you are using net public forums, but if you just plan to slip a copy to your mates on a thumb drive, nobody will know or care. On the other hand, if your mate shares it you could be screwed. Ultimately, if you don't trust your mates not to put it on Piratebay, don't give it to them, but for personal use, it is sort of like...who cares. (WotC maybe)