Magic Item creation: multiple powers

[McTaff]

In Pathfinder, you can have multiple powers on certain items (i.e. rings).

There is no way to create this item without resorting to actually creating custom content, and that isn't possible as our group play PnP and use HL for generation purposes.

For example: I own a Ring Of Regeneration. I can add "Feather Fall" to the ring, using the Forge Ring feat, however there is no way I can represent this item in my character. The closest thing is having the two separate rings and selecting them both, which flags an error if you have a third ring...

Any chance of opening up the "magic item builder" to rings, staves, wands and the like?

 

[Angela2013]

That is one way to do it (and a great one at that). You could also just go into the editor and build the new ring with any abilities that you want in any combination that you wish.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

There is no way to create this item without resorting to actually creating custom content, and that isn't possible as our group play PnP and use HL for generation purposes.

I am lost on why using PnP means you can't use the editor to create custom magic items?

 

[chiefweasel]

I think I am a bit lost on this one as well. You can create magic items in the editor for things such as rings. And if you dont want the error for wearing more then 2 rings, thats a constraint of the PF system. HL actually will allow you to do this just with an error to let you know it is outside the game rules.

Have you opened the editor and tried to create a ring?

 

[McTaff]

Creating custom content causes problems because everyone sends their characters to the DM, and he/she then can open them in HL and fiddle around with them as required, or at least verify stuff.

If I'm at home and create custom content, does this not mean that they also have to have the same custom content active on their version of HL?

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As for the "error", it is annoying; nothing more. but having that little red flag on your character sheet raises eyebrows and usually prompts a re-examination of your character sheet to make sure it's the only error...

We are pretty trusting in our group, but there is always that tiny sliver of doubt.

I just see this as an area that the HL system could open up a little more anyway, seeing as it is indeed a game mechanic that isn't implemented.

 

[blzbob]

If you send your character to the GM send the custom content too.

 

[Sendric]

I would suggest the use of a single .user file that is shared amongst the party and GM that contains all custom things necessary for all the characters.

 

[Angela2013]

You could put the user file in Dropbox and keep it synced across the player's and GM's computers. Make a change on one and it shows on all. Though you might want to set it up that only the GM can make the changes to keep it from getting out of hand.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

You could put the user file in Dropbox and keep it synced across the player's and GM's computers. Make a change on one and it shows on all. Though you might want to set it up that only the GM can make the changes to keep it from getting out of hand.

Yea pretty similar to what I do with my group except I linked into the "Powered by HL" feature so that my groups data set is auto-downloaded and installed when I make changes.

But even if my players add in feats, or spells they email me the .user file and I add it to our data set. Then everyone updates to the next release so that if anyone opens a .por file there is no errors about missing things. Plus I make sure that what they sent works and if needed do any little fixes also.

The dropbox method would do the same thing.

 

[McTaff]

I appreciate the suggestions (Some of those are pretty savvy - never thought of using Dropbox!)

However some of the group live in "the dark ages" and don't generally want to deal with anything wacky internet-related. At the moment, I will have to just create the items and submit it as a hardcopy (no big deal for me as I mentioned our playing is all done PnP).

Still, regardless of the workarounds, I'd still like to see a slightly more able item-creation section within HL.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

Still, regardless of the workarounds, I'd still like to see a slightly more able item-creation section within HL.

Actually I have to say I disagree here as the Editor does everything I could ever imagine it to do.

What would be nice is some way to bundle the the custom content into the .por file so even if the DM didn't have that specific User Created Content it would simply follow along in the .por file.

Now this would not work with any of the "official" packages, APG, UM, etc. but custom stuff in .user files would be nice. This would allow you to make the stuff and when it got opened by the DM or another player it would display correctly.

Maybe it could also require a .package like file or something that bundles the .user file and the .por into a single binary. Similar to how Word documents are actually a zip file containing multiple files inside.

Just a thought on what I think would be better than re-making what the editor already allows for.

 

[Mathias]

Maybe it could also require a .package like file or something that bundles the .user file and the .por into a single binary. Similar to how Word documents are actually a zip file containing multiple files inside.

The existing HLExport program can take both portfolios and .user files and put them in the same .hl file.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

The existing HLExport program can take both portfolios and .user files and put them in the same .hl file.

True it does but I was talking about a way for HL to do this automatically actually. While HLExport can be used in this method its not that easy to use right now. I am basing that on the number of PM's I have had about it.

A little better tutorial would help in this area actually. But yes it could currently be used do accomplish this so that the .por and .user file got placed correctly on the DMs machine.

 

[McTaff]

Wow. My head just about melted reading the last few posts

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I have a specific editing issue, if someone is able to help me:
I have created a ring and added the required fields as bootstraps. (irRegen and irForceSh).

When I add this item to the hero, it says he is wearing three rings; i.e. the custom item name shows up as a ring, and also instances of the Force Shield and Regen rings.

When I tick them all, it obviously throws a flag up - but I need to "wear" them in order to have the character sheet accurately reflect the statistics/abilities they are to provide.

What did I do wrong?

 

[Mathias]

Bootstrapping a thing means to add that other thing - in its entirety - whenever the user adds one of the thing doing the bootstrapping. So, what you've created is a three rings for the price of one item.

Make copies of those other rings in the editor - how do they go about applying their effects? How can you make your ring apply those same effects?

 

[McTaff]

Bootstrapping a thing means to add that other thing - in its entirety - whenever the user adds one of the thing doing the bootstrapping. So, what you've created is a three rings for the price of one item.

Make copies of those other rings in the editor - how do they go about applying their effects? How can you make your ring apply those same effects?

Thanks Mathias. I was under the assumption that "bootstraps" was actually it, but now you've cleared that up to me (I basically created a "bag of rings", amirite?). Based on your post...:

I can't see anything in the Ring Of Regeneration, except the Tags and Fields.
Fields seems to be concerned with the cost of the item, and the Tags is the Helper/ShowSpec which doesn't point to anywhere that I understand (I understand virtually nothing about code). So I had kinda guessed that somehow this doesn't actually "work" within the environs of HL?

The Eval Script for the Force Shield looks very pretty, and as I understand I could possibly "add" to it somehow to the new item, but I point to the previous statement - I know nothing about code. When I add two codes (i.e. if I want to add the "Ring Of Protection" code), I assume I add it as a new script?

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Although now I have a new issue - I attempted to purge my previous attempt to work with a clean slate. I was getting an error when I loaded the portfolio, and somehow chanced upon figuring out the "511" meant the thing I created earlier. So I did my best to delete it - and deleted the two data files that I previously created. However the previous ID I was working on still shows up in the list when I want to choose a thing to "make a new copy" of.

I have dumped the whole thing several times, and can't figure out why it's still there.

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I am hoping that you can perhaps see my initial frustration. I had actually tried to do this editing before (I still have a couple of random spells and crap that I can't get rid of in HL to this day) and it pretty much ended in me having to walk away and go on with other more pressing things without any success. I can understand that HL is a very exciting and powerful thing to use. I'm no dummy when it comes to computers - I even sell the damn things for a living, but I know nothing about specific examples of coding and back-end systems. Last thing I ever did that was remotely close to coding was a Choose Your Own Adventure with three whole questions on BASIC back in nineteen-eighty-something.

Rant alert. Don't read this hidden text.

The HL editor takes you from 0-160km/h assuming you know what you are doing, and I simply don't.

All in all, I have spent close to four hours trying to figure out how to make one item (in between wrangling my two young kids and running around the place for my real life), and all I've succeeded in doing has been to permanently create a reminder of some pathetic previous failure of mine that taunts me whenever I start anew (may as well be called "irStupidMcTaff" in the item list).

I am unfortunately a guy who doesn't have the time on my hands to figure all this out on my own - otherwise I'd be making killer mods in Skyrim instead of setting my hair on fire every time I open up that galaxy-sized toolset - and I simply cannot afford to turn hours over to learning a whole new skill at this point in my life. I can write amazing stories, design great front-ends for software (one of my previous consulting stints), but I am running on barely enough free time these days to check my email and catch up sorting out my notes for the next Pathfinder session. Real Life is a Real Pain sometimes. The worst catch of it all is that I am not the type of person who wants someone to do it for me either - I truly want to learn how to use it all myself, not just be handed the answer to my homework. I wouldn't be learning anything, and would then become dependent on you guys to make everything for me, every time I need it - and that just is Not Right.

My original wish stands - For some things, it should be as easy as "just tick a few boxes" to build what theoretically should be a pretty simple item (and a common one being something a wizard can Arcane Bond to). On the flipside I understand that LW are a very small company and have a lot on their plate. I can't see it changing for now.

To anyone who actually read this rant, have some special happy karma. You need it. I needed to get that off my chest.


Right, so back to the situation at hand:

1) How do I delete the old entries. I have completely deleted the /user files, so why are they still there?

2) What on earth does the ring of regen actually do in HL?

3) If I just keep adding scripts verbatim into the Eval Scripts (a new entry for each one), is there any chance that I would create some weird Frankenstein item that would bugger up the whole thing? Last time I did this I got a weird error about spF(something)Cube which I couldn't figure out what the hell that was - a holdover from a previous mistake (not in scripts - not sure how I did it)?

 

[Lord Magus]

A few quick answers...

1) In HL, healing and regeneration are not applied automatically by the program, but manually by the user. That is why the Ring of Regeneration has no scripts attached to it, only a couple of of tags and fields (the tag: "show in Specials list", the field: GP cost)

2) To create your combo ring, open the editor and create a new data file. Go to the Rings tab and create a new ring with the "New (Copy)" button from the Ring of Force Shield. Change description and cost accordingly. Enter item's name and unique ID. Save item (button). Save data file (menu item on top). Hit "test now" button. This should be it.

 

[Aaron]

1) Once you delete the user file, reload the program so it will check all the files and realize it's gone. I suspect you deleted the file and looked for the ring after just loading a new portfolio rather than the whole program.

2) It's text only, when you equip it the description shows on the specials tab.

3) It's possible for your scripts to cause errors, yes. If you have something the program doesn't recognize in an eval script, that will stop compilation, but the error message will tell you how to correct the problem. You can right click on the error message and copy to clipboard, and then post that here so others can help you out.

 

[Aaron]

So if I understand what you are trying to do, you want to make a ring that has both the power of a Ring of Regeneration and a Ring of Force Shield? This should be pretty simple, since only one of those (Force Shield) has any effects. Lord Magus's steps outline the simplest way to accomplish this, and it's usually better to start simple, so I recommend you follow his advice.

However, if I were doing it my way, I'd try to add in the regeneration. To do this, after you've followed Lord Magus's instructions, hit the "bootstrap" button on the upper right of your new ring. Then add a bootstrap, and enter the unique ID of the Regeneration power (xRegen). To the right of that hit the tag button and add a Value tag for whatever amount the regeneration is (for example, if the ring grants regeneration 5, enter "Value" for the "Group ID" and "5" for the "Tag ID").

Now, whenever you add the ring, your character will have Regen 5, but that's not quite right! We want the regeneration shown only when the ring is equipped! To do that we need to add a Bootstrap Condition to the bootstrapped xRegen. A bootstrap condition is an expression that, when true, causes a bootstrap to happen, and when false prevents it from happening.

Bootstrap Conditions can look at tags on the hero, and fields on the item doing the bootstrapping. In this case, there is a field on most items called "gIsEquip" that is 0 when an item is not equipped, and 1 when it is, so we'll use that here. To the right of the "Tags" button on the xRegen bottstrap, you should see a "Condition" button. Click on that and it brings up a new window with 3 things, a selector for phase (HL runs scripts and things in phases, everything in one phase has to run before anything in the next phase can start), a field for priority (which determines the order that things happen within a phase, so something with priority 100 happens before something with priority 500 in the same phase), and a large box for the expression.

Two things are most useful in expressions. First is counting tags on the hero. It is done with the "count" command. For example, to count all "Classes.Ranger" tags on the hero, and add the bootstrap if there are 3 or more, you would enter this in the expression

count:Classes.Ranger >= 3

The second is checking the value of a field, done with the "fieldval" command. For example, if you want the the bootstrap to happen when the value of the gIsEquip field is not 0 (remember, it is 1 when equipped, 0 when not equipped), you can do it like this:

fieldval:gIsEquip <> 0

"<>" means "is not equal to"

So, for this ring, look at the phase, it defaults to First, which is fine. Priority defaults to 10000, which is too late. Bootstrap Conditions MUST run before any eval scripts on the bootstrapped thing run, or else you'll get an error. There are background scripts that run for a particular type of thing, which only people working in the guts of the system see, so if it complains that the condition occurs too late, move it forward in priority. You'll almost never have a bootstrap condition run later than First 2500, and the usual place to set the priority at is 500, so use 500 here.

Now enter the tag expression mentioned above, close the condition, save the item, and hit the Test Now button or reload the program with ctrl-R. Test the item and see if it works. If not, feel free to ask for more help here.

 

[McTaff]

Thanks guys - I'll try that when I get home tonight.

(Probably after I scoop my brains back into my cranial cavity.)