Journal - Change it back!

[Dragnmoon]

Please for the love of God put the Journal back to the way it was! The inputing things twice is aggravating as hell and annoying me to no end! Not only that they both show up on My journal print out adding to its length!

You guys have giving your reasons for the split, none make sense, just add the Prestige part to the Adventure journal part and be done with it!

Edit: In the mean time at the least change the ordering so both sections show the latest input first.

 

[Colen]

Please for the love of God put the Journal back to the way it was! The inputing things twice is aggravating as hell and annoying me to no end! Not only that they both show up on My journal print out adding to its length!

You guys have giving your reasons for the split, none make sense, just add the Prestige part to the Adventure journal part and be done with it!

Hi Dragnmoon,

Unfortunately now that multiple factions are supported, we need to track awards separately from regular journal entries. Previously, a hero could only ever have one faction, so there was only one prestige total. Now, there's a separate prestige total for each faction, so we have to track stuff separately.

If we put the prestige awards on the regular Journal picks, you'd need to add a new one every time you wanted to add an award to a different faction. This would quickly fill up the main journal table with entries that did nothing but add prestige to different factions, which is definitely not desirable.

Even if we said "OK, if you only have one faction, you add prestige in the main journal table", we need to handle things properly if you leave your first faction and/or add a second. If prestige is just linked to a faction "anonymously", that's not something that Hero Lab can do.

Can you think of a better way to handle the above? If so, we'd be interested in hearing it.

Edit: In the mean time at the least change the ordering so both sections show the latest input first.

This should already be the case - if it isn't happening, it's a bug. I'll put this on our to-do list to investigate and see if we can get it fixed for a future version.

 

[Dragnmoon]

Can you think of a better way to handle the above? If so, we'd be interested in hearing it.

That is what you said last time, and it still does not make sense.

Why can't you add the faction back to the 1 journal entry and if they want to add more faction points just put a add button that will allow another entry in the same input?

 

[Dragnmoon]

If we put the prestige awards on the regular Journal picks, you'd need to add a new one every time you wanted to add an award to a different faction. This would quickly fill up the main journal table with entries that did nothing but add prestige to different factions, which is definitely not desirable.

And this is no more or less desirable then you have now. Both ways fill out the journal the same amount, but majority will be using just one faction.

 

[Colen]

That is what you said last time, and it still does not make sense.

Why can't you add the faction back to the 1 journal entry and if they want to add more faction points just put a add button that will allow another entry in the same input?

Unfortunately that's more complex than the Hero Lab user interface allows. We could potentially have a "Prestige" button on the journal entry that opened a form and allowed you to add prestige changes there; would that be any better?

And this is no more or less desirable then you have now. Both ways fill out the journal the same amount, but majority will be using just one faction.

The difference is, with our way the journal is at least kept usable for keeping track of your actual adventures in it, as intended. The "prestige journal" is smaller and less prominent, and it has the bit list of prestige changes in it. (I'd actually like to change it so that the prestige awards take up even less space; that should hopefully be in an update at some point.)


Thanks for your feedback!

 

[Micco]

I really don't want the prestige journal mucking up the Adventure Journal. I think having it as a separate journal makes sense.

 

[Dragnmoon]

Unfortunately that's more complex than the Hero Lab user interface allows. We could potentially have a "Prestige" button on the journal entry that opened a form and allowed you to add prestige changes there; would that be any better?

Yes as long as the Prestige showed up as being added in the program and in the printout.

And this is not the first time I have gotten an answer like this, I am still unsure if it means The program can't do it, or it would be too much work for us to do it.

The difference is, with our way the journal is at least kept usable for keeping track of your actual adventures in it, as intended. The "prestige journal" is smaller and less prominent, and it has the bit list of prestige changes in it. (I'd actually like to change it so that the prestige awards take up even less space; that should hopefully be in an update at some point.)


Thanks for your feedback!

If you can find a way so All of us Pathfinder Society players *Which I would not be surprised is a huge chunk of people who buy this software* don't have to input the Journal twice and have it printed up twice taken up twice the space in the journal printout I will be happy, currently the way it is, is really unacceptable, and it can be done a better way.

 

[Dragnmoon]

I really don't want the prestige journal mucking up the Adventure Journal. I think having it as a separate journal makes sense.

How would it Muck it up more then it is now?

 

[Nikmal]

No offense against the original poster, but I DO prefer that they are separate as they are now. In this way I can have my players mark down why they got the award and the dates they did in this way it makes it easier for me to track them then. So yes I prefer it be kept the way it is right now.

The journal can be kept for the player/character entries alone.

 

[Dragnmoon]

No offense against the original poster, but I DO prefer that they are separate as they are now. In this way I can have my players mark down why they got the award and the dates they did in this way it makes it easier for me to track them then. So yes I prefer it be kept the way it is right now.

The journal can be kept for the player/character entries alone.

How is that easier?

You can still do that if it was put together, with the enjoyment of having to only put it in once!

I mean really, How is Having to put things in more then once easier, I am not asking for a reduction of options or abilities, all I am asking for is not Having to put the Same thing in more then once.

 

[Nikmal]

How is that easier?

You can still do that if it was put together, with the enjoyment of having to only put it in once!

I mean really, How is Having to put things in more then once easier, I am not asking for a reduction of options or abilities, all I am asking for is not Having to put the Same thing in more then once.

First, if you had read my post, I am NOT putting things in twice but ONCE!!! The awards I am talking about are for the Prestige awards for the Faction alone! As a DM that would be my section alone and not the players. So they would not be using it twice as you put it. Though if they chose to they can add something about contacts for the faction if they so choose to do so. But the Faction journal is FOR the faction alone. The Journal is for everything else. Nothing more.

Just because you do not like something does not mean that it should be changed. I prefer if it is left alone as I actually like having them separate using two different journals for two different things is a decent way of doing it.

Dragonmoon if you choose to enter things twice, once for each journal I think you are defeating the purpose of what they are used for. Try and keep them separate as I do and you might actually like it a little better then. Getting upset about something that can be used differently then the way you use it in particular is not accomplishing anything but bitter feelings.

 

[Dragnmoon]

First, if you had read my post, I am NOT putting things in twice but ONCE!!! The awards I am talking about are for the Prestige awards for the Faction alone! As a DM that would be my section alone and not the players. So they would not be using it twice as you put it. Though if they chose to they can add something about contacts for the faction if they so choose to do so. But the Faction journal is FOR the faction alone. The Journal is for everything else. Nothing more.

Just because you do not like something does not mean that it should be changed. I prefer if it is left alone as I actually like having them separate using two different journals for two different things is a decent way of doing it.

Dragonmoon if you choose to enter things twice, once for each journal I think you are defeating the purpose of what they are used for. Try and keep them separate as I do and you might actually like it a little better then. Getting upset about something that can be used differently then the way you use it in particular is not accomplishing anything but bitter feelings.

You are obviously not a PFS player, PFS players have to input it twice, once for the Scenerio and the XP and reward, and another time for the faction points. If you are not using the faction points, it is even easier now. If they added it back you can just ignore it.

 

[Dragnmoon]

Colen how about this.

Can you add the Ability to add the Factions points back to the Adventures Journal, for the most likely the majority of your users that use factions for only 1 faction, But keep the Faction journal for those that want to add Faction points for additional factions?

 

[Nikmal]

You are obviously not a PFS player, PFS players have to input it twice, once for the Scenerio and the XP and reward, and another time for the faction points. If you are not using the faction points, it is even easier now. If they added it back you can just ignore it.

But it is STILL two different Journals using them for different purposes. By stating I am obviously NOT an PFS player is an assumption on your part. The Journal (the one that is normal not the prestige journal) is still there and the Prestige Journal uses the faction points. The post you quoted states how I use BOTH of them and yet you make the assumption I am not a PFS player, and yet I am using them basically the same way as a PFS player would. and BTW I AM a PFS player. Thanks for the assumption.

 

[Dragnmoon]

But it is STILL two different Journals using them for different purposes. By stating I am obviously NOT an PFS player is an assumption on your part. The Journal (the one that is normal not the prestige journal) is still there and the Prestige Journal uses the faction points. The post you quoted states how I use BOTH of them and yet you make the assumption I am not a PFS player, and yet I am using them basically the same way as a PFS player would. and BTW I AM a PFS player. Thanks for the assumption.

If you are a PFS player then you know that when you finish a Scenario you get Money, Exp and Faction points. Before when they where in one section they only had to put it in Once for the Same thing. Now that they are separated, you Have to put in the Same thing Twice for the Same thing. After a while that builds up and it becomes awkward to track and the Journal Log becomes twice the size because everything is in there twice. But you are a PFS player and know all that.

My new idea is hopefully something to implement that will satisfy the many PFS players who use HL and the few players who use the Faction system separately.

Add a Faction input back into the Adventure's Journal, which can be ignored by those that do not use Factions, but keep the Prestige award Journals for those few that use the Faction System outside of the PFS.

 

[Thazar]

OK,

I have no real dog in this fight... but I do like the fact that there is the ability to have more then one faction for a character. It was a suggestion I made a long time ago and we use it a lot in our home games for RP reasons.

Now, here is my suggestion. If you are a PFS character you can only be a member of ONE faction ever. If you are not a PFS character and are using normal play rules you can have as many factions as you want.

We already have a check box for Pathfinder Society as well as a second check for PFS without the rules limitations. If it is an easy thing to do maybe set up the check box for the PFS Rules enforcement thing to make the journal and faction a single entity and in all other set up it allows more then one faction.

I am not a programmer and do not know if this is easy or hard or what... but it is a compromise that lets the folks that only want one for PFS play vs the regular gamers that want more options for their own style of play.

 

[Nikmal]

I still do not understand where you are getting the "twice" from. You input the faction points in ONE journal and the xp and money in another. What is the problem with that? I honestly do NOT see a problem with this. They are both by date and they are always the most recent date at the top of each section.

I am not sure why you seem to think that can't do with two of them instead of one? It is not confusing to have two of them. When you select a faction the Faction Journal shows up and then you as a player can add the faction reward points as needed by date and time separate from the other journal. I do not see the big deal here. There is no redundancy in it as you do NOT need to enter things twice. You just have two different journals for two very different things. Is that such a problem?

 

[Dragnmoon]

I still do not understand where you are getting the "twice" from. You input the faction points in ONE journal and the xp and money in another. What is the problem with that? I honestly do NOT see a problem with this. They are both by date and they are always the most recent date at the top of each section.

I am not sure why you seem to think that can't do with two of them instead of one? It is not confusing to have two of them. When you select a faction the Faction Journal shows up and then you as a player can add the faction reward points as needed by date and time separate from the other journal. I do not see the big deal here. There is no redundancy in it as you do NOT need to enter things twice. You just have two different journals for two very different things. Is that such a problem?

You already said you where a PFS player, Have you made a PFS character with HL? If you have you would know what I was talking about.. Once again I will try to explain.

as a PFS player when you finish a Scenario you get Money, Exp and Faction points.

You input all of that into HL when you finish a Scenario. Before the change I would fill out the Scenario I played, mark off the EXP add the money and add the faction points all in the same Journal. Now I have to add the Scenario I played then mark off Exp and add the money, then in the Faction section Add the Scenario again and the Faction, which is what I mean by putting it in twice. This adds an encumbrance because it makes tracking more difficult because the 2 are now separated instead of together and cause both inputs to be printed out in the Journal printout which makes it twice as long.

Understand now?

 

[Bishop37]

Could we move the button for creating new prestige journal entries up to ON the regular journal entries? When you click on it, it creates a new prestige award journal entry that is linked to that particular journal entry, copying the name and dates for the event. If you need additional prestige award journal entries, you click the button additional times and it creates additional linked entries.

On the journal printout, have the journal entries and its affiliated prestige award journal entries all print out under one header, saving the space of repeating the event names and dates.

 

[quixoticparadigm]

I don't see why the PA journal and regular journal aren't together when you select the PFS option. Who has PA in more than 1 faction for a character? You can only get PA for the faction you are in. I guess someone could be a traitor and switch factions mid-character, but why would you? You end up reducing your spending cap because TPA tells you what your OWN faction sells you, not a combination of PA from all the factions.