Jade Regent Dancing Wasp Issue

[gauldin]

I'm running Jade Regent for our group, and I'm having an issue with one of the weapons from that game, Dancing Wasp. I can add it to a character's inventory, but it always shows up as non-proficient, even if the character has proficiency with all martial and exotic weapons. Moreover, it doesn't display the box to allow you to equip it. I've looked at both it and its underlying weapon type (Kusarigama) in the editor, but don't see anything that jumps out at me (but I'm not that proficient with the editor, either).

Do you need to have the Ultimate Combat add-on for this to work (even though it's supposed to be supported by the Jade Regent AP)? Anyone else having this problem, or able to give me pointers as to what I might be doing wrong? Thanks!

 

[AndrewD2]

It shows up fine for me (I do have Ultimate Combat) and if I select EWP: Kusarigama it shows as proficient.

There could be 2 problems, 1) what are you going proficiency with all exotic weapons from? I know that's a tricky ability and there might be a bug there.

I think it does require Ultimate Combat though as that's where the base weapon is from.

 

[Mathias]

You must have either Ultimate Combat or Ultimate Equipment turned on in order to get the base statistics of a Kusarigama. The base statistics of a Kusarigama are not repeated in the description of that weapon in the AP, so someone who only owned the adventure path, but not one of the books where the weapon had been printed wouldn't be able to fully utilize that magic weapon, and Hero Lab works the same way.

 

[gauldin]

Well that's a bummer. I don't want to make my group have to buy UC just to be able to use the stuff that's in the Adventure Path. At least Dancing Wasp isn't that great a weapon, but I wonder how many others like this I'm going to run into with this AP. Thanks Mathias.

(Andrew - I created a new feat to give proficiency in all exotic weapons, because I feel like having to dedicate a feat to each individual type of weapon is too high a cost - the players just end up ignoring exotic weapons altogether.)

 

[d20Maverick]

EWP: All is a VERY powerful ability.

What I did with my ranger while going through Jade Regent (currently in Book 2) was pick up a level of Samurai to add proficiency in Katana, Wakizashi and Naginata, which worked out very well thematically (as my Kelish Horse Lord ranger, who was banished from Qadira and spent two years as a sailor because of that banishment) and mechanically. He is fascinated by the weapons and culture he has encountered in the AP so far, and keeps a "trophy" from each encounter. It slows his progression slightly as a ranger, but has opened up some fun new abilities and build options for him.

A rogue (or anyone wanting to GO rogue) picking up levels in Ninja is also very thematically appropriate for that AP.

He ended up defeating the wielder of the Dancing Wasp in single combat and has taken the weapon as a trophy. He isn't proficient with it, but he IS fascinated by it and may eventually learn to use it.

As far as adding it to HeroLab, that was easy enough with UC or UE enabled and inputting it as a magic/custom weapon based on the Kusarigama.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

As far as adding it to HeroLab, that was easy enough with UC or UE enabled and inputting it as a magic/custom weapon based on the Kusarigama.

If you have UC then you can just turn on UC and Jade Regent and directly add Dancing Wasp. No custom work needed.

@gauldin You can easily use the editor to enter a Kusarigama in the editor and then create the magic weapon Dancing Wasp if you wish. Weapons don't require any scripting at all.

 

[d20Maverick]

If you have UC then you can just turn on UC and Jade Regent and directly add Dancing Wasp. No custom work needed.

@gauldin You can easily use the editor to enter a Kusarigama in the editor and then create the magic weapon Dancing Wasp if you wish. Weapons don't require any scripting at all.

I'll have to check that, because that's excellent! I hadn't noticed it when I was going through, I'll have to take a closer look at my Portfolio, then. Thanks!

 

[gauldin]

@ShadowChemosh - I know I could create the weapon(s) without much trouble - I was just assuming they were part of the AP package. I want to keep everything to basic HeroLab, so my players don't have to spend more than the minimum. Hopefully, no one will want Dancing Wasp all that bad!

Maverick: I'm not sure that EWP:All is really all that much more powerful than Martial:All, which Fighters get for free. My big issue with EWP is that a Feat is a pretty high price to pay just for one weapon, especially when you don't know what might be coming along later in the adventure. For example, in Jade Regent you find Whispering Shrike right away, and might be tempted to take EWP:Wakizashi to use it. Then in the next chapter you find Suishen, the big intelligent katana, but you'd have to devote another Feat to becoming proficient with it. Most players' reaction is to decide that exotic weapons just aren't worth the trouble, so you end up with unique magical weapons gathering dust. I'd rather make it easy for my players to take advantage of what the AP throws their way.

 

[d20Maverick]

Maverick: I'm not sure that EWP:All is really all that much more powerful than Martial:All, which Fighters get for free. My big issue with EWP is that a Feat is a pretty high price to pay just for one weapon, especially when you don't know what might be coming along later in the adventure. For example, in Jade Regent you find Whispering Shrike right away, and might be tempted to take EWP:Wakizashi to use it. Then in the next chapter you find Suishen, the big intelligent katana, but you'd have to devote another Feat to becoming proficient with it. Most players' reaction is to decide that exotic weapons just aren't worth the trouble, so you end up with unique magical weapons gathering dust. I'd rather make it easy for my players to take advantage of what the AP throws their way.

That's certainly true enough, but the nice thing about Pathfinder is that not being proficient with the weapon doesn't mean you can't use it at all, you simply can't use it AS WELL. You can still use Dancing Wasp or Whispering Shrike at your normal melee AB - 4, and you can still use the special abilities granted by them.

As far as devoting multiple feats, that is certainly one way to handle things, but is not the only way. Players always have the option of multi-classing, which is a great way to pick up multiple proficiencies at once, generally (at least in Pathfinder) at a minimum cost. It delays your progression in your main class by one level and keeps you from getting that level 20 capstone ability, but how many of us ever see that any way? If you have a campaign that lasts long enough to get you to level 20, you're part of an exclusive club, and I envy you. I'm in two campaigns currently stalled at level 4 and level 6.

In your game, EWP: All obviously works well, and that's awesome. I'm glad that my GM didn't implement that option, because I probably would have taken it and would likely have missed out on the story opportunities taking a level of samurai have provided for my ranger. Different strokes for different folks, and none of the ones mentioned here are the "wrong way" to play.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

Just to add my 2 cents about Exotic Weapons I did always agree that a feat to use one weapon was a bit much. Exotic weapons are nice but never saw them as "overpowered" or anything. So my group went with a middle ground and we made "Exotic Weapon Training" trait that lets you become proficient with a single exotic weapon.

I kind of like the idea of "EWP: All" as it would totally make the feat more worth taking actually. And Jade Regent is a great example where I am sure that feat works really nice with all the different exotic weapons that show up.

The one point about making exotic weapons easier to get from a DM's point of view is to see different weapons in use. Otherwise I see allot of Longbow composite, Longsword, Greatsword, and Greataxe. Like over and over again.

I really like Pathfinder making allot of "racial" exotic weapons easier to use for a race. As that at least allows some of those exotic weapons to show up then for elven fighters and stuff.

This is why though each group has "houserules" that are in use as different people find different things fun out of the game. Kind of a fun thing I see allot on these boards is people asking about how to implement houserules.

 

[jbearwillis]

Hey ShadowChemosh, Would you have the PRPGtraits: SkillTraining and the PRPGtraits: Exotic Weapon Training (Combat) from that page coded up and would be willing to share. Those 2 sound like very good idea's and would love to use those in my game.

 

[gauldin]

I also thought about going the trait route, but everyone had already chosen and started playing with their set of traits, and I think of those as something that's more inherent to who your character is, as opposed to something you learn (my bias).

ShadowChemosh, one of the things I really love about the HL editor is how easy (most of the time!) it is to implement house rules. My group has been together a LONG time, and for most of our history we played AD&D (2E). There, the DM could just say "OK, I'll allow X", and you'd scribble something on your character sheet and be done with it. But with the growth in complexity with 3.0/3.5/PF and then 4E, you really have to rely on automated tools for managing all the interactions of your feats, skills, gear, etc. With the HL editor, I feel like I, as DM, am back in control instead of the rules/tools controlling what I can do.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

Hey ShadowChemosh, Would you have the PRPGtraits: SkillTraining and the PRPGtraits: Exotic Weapon Training (Combat) from that page coded up and would be willing to share. Those 2 sound like very good idea's and would love to use those in my game.

Sure no problem at all. I have attached a file to this post with those traits.

HERE is a link to download the whole Shadow d20 package which is my houserules file. I DO NOT recommend for anyone to install this in your normal Pathfinder folder. It will NOT work with any of the community packages and it does lots of strange things cause of my houserules.

But if you wanted to load it into say "Pathfinder_Shadowd20" so you could pull out small pieces of it for your own games that is totally fine. The wiki is a little behind but if its on the wiki then it will be coded up in the package.

But I won't support this package if your not one of my players. Why I say its good to take from and to install into a "secondary" data folder away from your normal pathfinder stuff.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

ShadowChemosh, one of the things I really love about the HL editor is how easy (most of the time!) it is to implement house rules. My group has been together a LONG time, and for most of our history we played AD&D (2E). There, the DM could just say "OK, I'll allow X", and you'd scribble something on your character sheet and be done with it. But with the growth in complexity with 3.0/3.5/PF and then 4E, you really have to rely on automated tools for managing all the interactions of your feats, skills, gear, etc. With the HL editor, I feel like I, as DM, am back in control instead of the rules/tools controlling what I can do.

Just wanted to say I totally agree with this part!

Plus with all my players using HL now I no longer have to spend time double checking character sheets or reminding players of any houserules. It so frees up my time for world building and prep work instead.