Item & Option Processing Order

[mgehl at home.com]

Rob,
I'm trying to create datafiles for FASA's Renegade Legion Centurion
game, and am starting with implementing the tank creation rules.
However, I'm running into a few problems with the order in which
calculations are performed.
I'm doing the unit creation by constructing the vehicle out of items
(although I could re-write it in an option model, if you think that
might be easier). My problem is that most of the items add to various
stats, and I occasionally need to perform calculations based on the
stats, and most importantly, I need to know that the calculations are
happening before or after certain modifications are made.
As far as I can figure, for items, everything is processed from top to
bottom of the item list. Is it possible to force this order? Maybe an
auto-sort, which can sort things by their item category (my set-up
works, if the items are placed in the right order). Or is there
something else I can do to get things to happen in a certain order.

Thanks for any help you can give me.
Mathias Gehl
mgehl@home.com

P.S. Since the files for VOR are on the website, I presume FASA has
given permission for datafiles to be published for any of their games,
right?

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[rob]

First, I'm 99.9% certain that there should be no problems posting the data
files for this game. FASA has not given explicit permission for other
games, although they have implied the permission. Given that AB is now an
in-house standard within FASA for all the games it currently supports, I
can't imagine there being any problems. Once you've got the files
ready, let me know and I'll get an official OK from FASA.

Now, onto the problem you're trying to solve with the files.....

There is no way to force the order of items that the user can select as
items. The best solution here is to continue using items, but move all
those items into an item category that is HIDDEN. Then, use options to
select which items are added (via the "take" attribute on the options).
Since the order of options has a controlled order, the corresponding items
also appear in a controlled order. However, by using items this way, you
can use TWEAKS to let the user custom-tailor the individual items. This is
valuable in situations like having two instances of weapon X (e.g. missile
launcher), but one instance uses HE warheads and the other uses army
piercing warheads. In this case, the generic missile launcher is selected
as an option, which then attaches the corresponding item to the vehicle.
The item then displays the various warhead options to the user for selection.

This was the quick-and-dirty description of how it all works. If you have
questions about this, let me know and I'll do my best to answer them.

Hope this helps,
Rob


At 02:42 AM 11/20/00 -0800, you wrote:
>Rob,
> I'm trying to create datafiles for FASA's Renegade Legion Centurion
>game, and am starting with implementing the tank creation rules.
>However, I'm running into a few problems with the order in which
>calculations are performed.
> I'm doing the unit creation by constructing the vehicle out of items
>(although I could re-write it in an option model, if you think that
>might be easier). My problem is that most of the items add to various
>stats, and I occasionally need to perform calculations based on the
>stats, and most importantly, I need to know that the calculations are
>happening before or after certain modifications are made.
> As far as I can figure, for items, everything is processed from
> top to
>bottom of the item list. Is it possible to force this order? Maybe an
>auto-sort, which can sort things by their item category (my set-up
>works, if the items are placed in the right order). Or is there
>something else I can do to get things to happen in a certain order.
>
>Thanks for any help you can give me.
>Mathias Gehl
>mgehl@home.com
>
>P.S. Since the files for VOR are on the website, I presume FASA has
>given permission for datafiles to be published for any of their games,
>right?


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 726-9689
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com

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[mgehl at home.com]

Thanks. I hadn't thought about the fact that the weapons are nicely
categorized already. Can I allow more than one selection from each
category with zrng? Or do I have to un-hide a new option when the old
one is selected?

Another question - Engine power in this system is purchased in multiples
of 50 (min 50, max 2500). The cost is a simple multiple of the power,
but the mass is looked up on a table. I've done some of the engine
power levels using the ztbl attribute, but I was hoping there was
something more efficient. I originally tried zrng, but needing to look
up the masses for the engines stopped me on that. Actually, is there a
way to create a couple of if-then style attributes? Studying the table,
there are only 3 formulas used to compute the mass, depending on where
in the range of engine powers you are (from 50-450, use this formula.
from 500-1200, use that formula, from 1250-2500, use a third formula).

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[rob]

[No message]

 

[mgehl at home.com]

Rob Bowes wrote:
>
> At 02:31 PM 11/20/00 -0800, you wrote:
>
> > Thanks. I hadn't thought about the fact that the weapons are nicely
> > categorized already. Can I allow more than one selection from each
> > category with zrng? Or do I have to un-hide a new option when the
> > old
> > one is selected?
>
> Hmmm. I don't understand the question here. Which category? How do
> categories pertain to "zrng"? I'm definitely confused on this, so a
> more detailed explanation of what you're trying to accomplish would be
> helpful.

Sorry.
By categories I mean the categories the game has created, ex:
Lasers
Mass Drivers

You are allowed a certain number of weapons per tank.
Would it be possible to use zrng to, for example:
select 3 laser weapons and 2 mass driver weapons, and have each of these
5 weapons be displayed as an item (and then I can select the specific
version for each of the items)?

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[rob]

At 04:55 PM 11/20/00 -0800, you wrote:
> > > Thanks. I hadn't thought about the fact that the weapons are nicely
> > > categorized already. Can I allow more than one selection from each
> > > category with zrng? Or do I have to un-hide a new option when the
> > > old
> > > one is selected?
> >
> > Hmmm. I don't understand the question here. Which category? How do
> > categories pertain to "zrng"? I'm definitely confused on this, so a
> > more detailed explanation of what you're trying to accomplish would be
> > helpful.
>
>Sorry.
>By categories I mean the categories the game has created, ex:
>Lasers
>Mass Drivers
>
>You are allowed a certain number of weapons per tank.
>Would it be possible to use zrng to, for example:
>select 3 laser weapons and 2 mass driver weapons, and have each of these
>5 weapons be displayed as an item (and then I can select the specific
>version for each of the items)?

Hmmm. Neither the "rang" nor "zrng" attributes can be used for complex
things like adding items. They can only be used for simple things like
repeatedly modifying a stat or applying a cost increase. Since I'm still
not 100% certain of how you are envisioning this working, I'll try to
explain more fully and hope that this answers your question.

To start with, each separate item needs to be added via its own "take"
attribute. That means you can't add 3 laser weapons with a single "take".
You COULD use the "take" attribute 3 times on the same option, but that
really doesn't allow for any user adjustment (e.g. the user wants to take 4
laser weapons). You COULD work around this by using a "tabl" attribute
that let the user pick from 0-N instances of a particular weapon category.
Unfortunately, you would need a separate option for each table entry that
attached a different number of instances of that weapon/item. That gets
ugly if you have lots of weapon categories.

There are three ways I can think of in which you can probably tackle this
one. First, the objective. Let's say the user wants to have 5 laser
weapons. He wants two with a normal penetration factor, 2 with a high
penetration factor, and the fifth as a "point-defense" weapon (i.e. to take
out enemy missiles on approach).

Solution #1. Each weapon classification has its own option. That option
uses "take" to attach the corresponding item. It also uses "more" to allow
the user to select a second option for the weapon. Each individual weapon
can then be configured appropriately. If the user wants 3 of the same
thing, he needs to select 3 instances of the weapon and configure each one
the same. This is the crudest and simplest way to implement this.

Solution #2. You start with solution #1. The key difference is that the
user can go into the special items window and modify the count for each
item. This way, only one instance of item X must be configured and the 3
instances of it can be quickly adjusted by the user. The only down-side to
this approach is that the number of items must be modified within the
special items window, which isn't very intuitive (IMHO).

Solution #3. Again you start with solution #1. However, to keep from
forcing the user into the special items window, you attach various "zrng"
tweaks to the item. Each of these tweaks must be mutually exclusive, and
each represents a particular configuration of the weapon. Each tweak
modifies a hidden stat value to represent the proper cost increase of the
item for each instance of the item. Then you use another (lower priority)
tweak with the "zcst:expr=" attribute. This tweak calculates the proper
cost of the item based on the number of instances selected via the "zrng"
tweak.

Going back to the original example, the user would select the first laser
weapon option. This would enable the selection of the second laser weapon
option, which would enable the selection of the third. For the first laser
weapon, the user selects the normal penetation tweak and increases it to 2.
For the second laser weapon, the high penetration tweak is increased to 2.
For the last one, the point-defense tweak is increased to one.

Now that I think about it, you MIGHT be able to set things up where the
user selects the proper number of different configurations all as different
tweaks. This all depends on how complex the cost calculations are. For
example, you could have the user select the "Laser Weapon" option, which
attaches a Laser Weapon item. Then you have three tweaks that each use
"zrng". The first is the number of "Normal Penetration" lasers, the second
is the "High Penetration" lasers, and the third is the "Point Defense"
lasers. The user can adjust all of these values to reflect the number of
each laser weapon wanted on the vehicle.

Whew! I hope this proves helpful.

Thanks, Rob

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Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 726-9689
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com

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