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Include/exclude filter option.

  • Thread starter Thread starter jim at timewarpcomics.com
  • Start date Start date
J

jim at timewarpcomics.com

Guest
Here's one for you.

Using the SW TCG files as the basis.

Say I want to show all cards with the Theme "Jedi" (check mark), but not
the cards with the Theme "Padawan" (exclude mark).

Is this possible?

It's late, I may be overlooking something simple.
--
Jim Williamson <jim@timewarpcomics.com <mailto:jim@timewarpcomics.com>>
TimeWarp Comics & Games
(973) 857-9788
www.timewarpcomics.com <http://www.timewarpcomics.com>


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This is not currently possible through the CV interface. It all boils down
to a tradeoff between the complexity/sophistication offered by CV versus
the usability and simplicity of the interface. With the filter mechanism, I
think we achieved a reasonable balance that only falls short under special
situations and for a very tiny fraction of the overall userbase. It's now
been six months, and this is the first time I'm aware of anyone asking
about this capability, so it's clearly not a high-demand feature. :-)

Under the covers, CV actually uses a query language that the front-end
synthesizes. My thinking with this was to ultimately allow users to forego
the point-and-click interface and enter whatever complex query they want
(when they felt it necessary). The GUI interface keeps things moderately
simple and thereby precludes access to various combinations like the one
you describe, but the query language itself can readily handle it.

After consideration, I opted NOT to expose the query language, since it
would prove useful to only a handful of users in only a handful of
situations and would likely generate more user confusion and tech support
headaches than the overall value it provided. While there are a lot of very
technically savvy users out there, the "typical" user is very NON-technical
and many of the features of CV already require a learning curve for those
folks. So it just didn't make sense to introduce the query language initially.

If there is a reasonable justification for it, I could see exposing the
query language to handle situations like this. But it's not currently
available. :-(

Thanks, Rob

At 12:56 AM 4/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Here's one for you.
>
>Using the SW TCG files as the basis.
>
>Say I want to show all cards with the Theme "Jedi" (check mark), but not
>the cards with the Theme "Padawan" (exclude mark).
>
>Is this possible?
>
>It's late, I may be overlooking something simple.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559) 658-6995
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com


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I'll kiss your juicy lips for an exposed SQL or similar language.

Abilio

--- Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com> wrote:
> This is not currently possible through the CV interface. It all
> boils down
> to a tradeoff between the complexity/sophistication offered by CV
> versus
> the usability and simplicity of the interface. With the filter
> mechanism, I
> think we achieved a reasonable balance that only falls short under
> special
> situations and for a very tiny fraction of the overall userbase.
> It's now
> been six months, and this is the first time I'm aware of anyone
> asking
> about this capability, so it's clearly not a high-demand feature.
> :-)
>
> Under the covers, CV actually uses a query language that the
> front-end
> synthesizes. My thinking with this was to ultimately allow users to
> forego
> the point-and-click interface and enter whatever complex query they
> want
> (when they felt it necessary). The GUI interface keeps things
> moderately
> simple and thereby precludes access to various combinations like
> the one
> you describe, but the query language itself can readily handle it.
>
> After consideration, I opted NOT to expose the query language,
> since it
> would prove useful to only a handful of users in only a handful of
> situations and would likely generate more user confusion and tech
> support
> headaches than the overall value it provided. While there are a lot
> of very
> technically savvy users out there, the "typical" user is very
> NON-technical
> and many of the features of CV already require a learning curve for
> those
> folks. So it just didn't make sense to introduce the query language
> initially.
>
> If there is a reasonable justification for it, I could see exposing
> the
> query language to handle situations like this. But it's not
> currently
> available. :-(
>
> Thanks, Rob
>
> At 12:56 AM 4/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >Here's one for you.
> >
> >Using the SW TCG files as the basis.
> >
> >Say I want to show all cards with the Theme "Jedi" (check mark),
> but not
> >the cards with the Theme "Padawan" (exclude mark).
> >
> >Is this possible?
> >
> >It's late, I may be overlooking something simple.
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559)
> 658-6995
> Lone Wolf Development
> www.wolflair.com
>
>
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>


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--- Jim Williamson <jim@timewarpcomics.com> wrote:
> Say I want to show all cards with the Theme "Jedi" (check mark), but not
> the cards with the Theme "Padawan" (exclude mark).

If Jedi appears in the card text for the card, you can search for Jedi, and
exclude Padawan and get fairly close to the search you want :)


=====
---

Kuni Tetsu
Clan War rules guy
Moderator of ClanWar-l

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What about ALSO having a version with the query language exposed for those who would prefer it? You could have a warning that its for advanced users only and explain the difference. That would be cool.


--Kyle Turner
emperor799@earthlink.net


"You're out of your mind!"
"That's between me and my mind" -- Firefly


----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Bowes
To: cardvault@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 4:56 AM
Subject: Re: [CardVault] Include/exclude filter option.


This is not currently possible through the CV interface. It all boils down
to a tradeoff between the complexity/sophistication offered by CV versus
the usability and simplicity of the interface. With the filter mechanism, I
think we achieved a reasonable balance that only falls short under special
situations and for a very tiny fraction of the overall userbase. It's now
been six months, and this is the first time I'm aware of anyone asking
about this capability, so it's clearly not a high-demand feature. :-)

Under the covers, CV actually uses a query language that the front-end
synthesizes. My thinking with this was to ultimately allow users to forego
the point-and-click interface and enter whatever complex query they want
(when they felt it necessary). The GUI interface keeps things moderately
simple and thereby precludes access to various combinations like the one
you describe, but the query language itself can readily handle it.

After consideration, I opted NOT to expose the query language, since it
would prove useful to only a handful of users in only a handful of
situations and would likely generate more user confusion and tech support
headaches than the overall value it provided. While there are a lot of very
technically savvy users out there, the "typical" user is very NON-technical
and many of the features of CV already require a learning curve for those
folks. So it just didn't make sense to introduce the query language initially.

If there is a reasonable justification for it, I could see exposing the
query language to handle situations like this. But it's not currently
available. :-(

Thanks, Rob

At 12:56 AM 4/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Here's one for you.
>
>Using the SW TCG files as the basis.
>
>Say I want to show all cards with the Theme "Jedi" (check mark), but not
>the cards with the Theme "Padawan" (exclude mark).
>
>Is this possible?
>
>It's late, I may be overlooking something simple.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559) 658-6995
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
cardvault-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Kuni Tetsu wrote:

>
> --- Jim Williamson <jim@timewarpcomics.com> wrote:
> > Say I want to show all cards with the Theme "Jedi" (check mark), but
> not
> > the cards with the Theme "Padawan" (exclude mark).
>
> If Jedi appears in the card text for the card, you can search for
> Jedi, and
> exclude Padawan and get fairly close to the search you want :)


unfortunately, on most "Jedi" cards the word jedi does not appear in the
text/title. It's defined through the "theme" tag.


One workaround I figured out is to have a second "theme" tag group. (But
I'm relatively lazy and that would entail much work).

what I really meant was this:

If you click and emtpy check box you get a check mark.
If you click that box again you get an exclude mark.
(and click once more to clear the check box)

instead of the checkbox having two states (no/yes) it would have three
(no/yes/not)

--
Jim Williamson <jim@timewarpcomics.com <mailto:jim@timewarpcomics.com>>
TimeWarp Comics & Games
(973) 857-9788
www.timewarpcomics.com <http://www.timewarpcomics.com>



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Kyle Turner wrote:

> What about ALSO having a version with the query language exposed for
> those who would prefer it? You could have a warning that its for
> advanced users only and explain the difference. That would be cool.
>

I think that it might be opening pandora's box right now. Remember, the
saying goes "Keep It Simple Stupid".

Lets get Cardvault established as the Industry standard before making it
more complex.

BTW: I also like query searches, but I'm thinking of the problems it
would encur at this time.

--
Jim Williamson <jim@timewarpcomics.com <mailto:jim@timewarpcomics.com>>
TimeWarp Comics & Games
(973) 857-9788
www.timewarpcomics.com <http://www.timewarpcomics.com>



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To keep the interface simple, CV's filter mechanism operates in either
"require" or "exclude" mode for a given tag group. This translates to
either "require tag1 OR tag2 OR tag3..." versus "exclude tag1 AND tag2 AND
tag3...". Note that one form uses an OR to combined the terms while the
other uses an AND. Consequently, what you are proposing won't work within
the current model.

This is why the functionality is not currently implemented. It would
require that the (relatively) simple model be abandoned in favor of a (I
think) more complex solution that would probably become difficult to grasp
for (a) non-technical users and (b) young users (e.g. some of the
MageKnight and YuGiOh users).

If you can come up with a clean and simple way of modeling this, please let
me know (off-list) and I'll see what can be done about adding it. :-)

Thanks, Rob

At 03:31 PM 4/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>what I really meant was this:
>
>If you click and emtpy check box you get a check mark.
>If you click that box again you get an exclude mark.
>(and click once more to clear the check box)
>
>instead of the checkbox having two states (no/yes) it would have three
>(no/yes/not)


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Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559) 658-6995
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com


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