HLO will _never_ support user-created content

[Farling]

I've just had a discussion with the Foundry VTT team members, and they have informed me that Hero Lab Class is rite with Copyright issues so they won't allow modules which import files to be listed on their REPO site.

This presumably is because HLC allows users to add their own content.

Foundry VTT team members are allowing import from HLO because it does not have the same Copyright issues.

For this reason, it seems very unlikely that LWD will ever allow user-created content to be used on HLO - since it will break this trust they have with other online service providers who might want to interface with HLO but are wary about Copyright issues.

 

[charlieluce]

The technical issues with supporting user-created content in HLO already made it highly unlikely without any influence from copyright problems.

 

[dacoobob]

heck, i'd be overjoyed if they even supported the official content they'd already promised... starships for example, or adventure path GM content.

 

[wildj79]

That's a pretty big leap in logic. One that I'm inclined to disagree with.

HLC por files are essentially a proprietary file format. They might just be zipped xml files, but it's still a file format specific to Hero Lab Classic. My guess (and I've been around the foundry community long enough for this to be a pretty educated guess) is that foundry is taking issue with this aspect, and not so much rejecting a module that would be used to import data (there are already several modules in the official listing that do exactly this, import data from json or xml files or parse stat blocks to create items and actors in foundry). The key difference with HLO is that it has a public API that is specifically designed for this purpose.

So, thinking that HLO is never gonna support custom content just because third party vendors might take issue with it is unlikely and kind of a stretch.

 

[mototom]

Isn't the PDF to Foundry Importer for PF2 listed on their site? It extracts all the content from a PDF and puts it in Foundry. I'm not sure how that's any different, as there's no way to verify the license to that copyrighted Paizo PDF.

 

[Farling]

Isn't the PDF to Foundry Importer for PF2 listed on their site? It extracts all the content from a PDF and puts it in Foundry. I'm not sure how that's any different, as there's no way to verify the license to that copyrighted Paizo PDF.

I haven't got very far in talks with them yet, but I thought that the PDF reader module only worked on legal(?) PDF formats. (I have no idea if such a thing exists.)

 

[Farling]

That's a pretty big leap in logic. One that I'm inclined to disagree with.

HLC por files are essentially a proprietary file format. They might just be zipped xml files, but it's still a file format specific to Hero Lab Classic. My guess (and I've been around the foundry community long enough for this to be a pretty educated guess) is that foundry is taking issue with this aspect, and not so much rejecting a module that would be used to import data (there are already several modules in the official listing that do exactly this, import data from json or xml files or parse stat blocks to create items and actors in foundry). The key difference with HLO is that it has a public API that is specifically designed for this purpose.

So, thinking that HLO is never gonna support custom content just because third party vendors might take issue with it is unlikely and kind of a stretch.

Foundry team specifically don't want to allow import from Hero Lab Classic because of the supposed amount of piracy that is rife with the data sets. It definitely is NOT because the .por is a zip file with proprietary XML formats in it.

 

[mototom]

I haven't got very far in talks with them yet, but I thought that the PDF reader module only worked on legal(?) PDF formats. (I have no idea if such a thing exists.)

It does not. There are some mechanisms to digitally sign PDFs, but those aren't used on Paizo PDFs. They watermark them so you could tell whose PDF it is if it ends up on a file sharing site, but there's no way for the PDF importer to tell that the PDF I'm using is my purchased copy and not someone else's.

 

[thaX]

To say this is the reason for the table top to refuse to import the POR files is not looking at the whole picture of what the file is and the information contained within.

To be perfectly honest, one could use content from anywhere and fill out a character sheet, and still use content that is contained within the IP without ever importing anything at all.

Whatever the reason for any company to not facilitate the importing of files to their platform, the fear of violating copyright law (by the user, not the platform that interpenetrated it) is far from being the main culprit for the exclusion. One could surmise that the file itself is using propitiatory means to gather the character info and use it in the HLC product, though Lonewolf has given their graces to allow table top platforms to relay that info for character use on the sites.

Whomever told you that this was the reasoning for not allowing this is not telling you the whole story. There likely is another reason altogether for the exclusion, one that has nothing to do with copyright.

Possibly, it could be the changable rules through the interface within HLC that would allow a person to institute house rules (like The World is Square add on). It also could be an issue with storage of info on the web site for those files (on the REPO site, whatever that is)

Right now, I can not directly import character info onto Roll20 for PF2 from HLO because API support is a GM only use and you have to pay for it. (and also make a game in which your the GM) For the casual player, a hard no go.

 

[Farling]

Whatever the reason for any company to not facilitate the importing of files to their platform, the fear of violating copyright law (by the user, not the platform that interpenetrated it) is far from being the main culprit for the exclusion. One could surmise that the file itself is using propitiatory means to gather the character info and use it in the HLC product, though Lonewolf has given their graces to allow table top platforms to relay that info for character use on the sites.

I have been speaking to Kandashi and Anathema on the Foundry Discord.

They have both specifically mentioned that HLC is well known for allowing copyright material to be used without purchasing it - Anathema even said that it is very easy to find these files with a simple google search (I couldn't find any). Thus they don't want to list any modules which interact directly with HLC files.

Anathema who has the role of "Project Coordinator - Foundry Virtual Tabletop" said "If I recall at the time of investigation it was possible to wholesale acquire databases of copyright infringing material for a variety of publisher content for HL Classic with very simple Google searches"

 

[thaX]

Likely, it is self made files from users putting the information in, not the files being sold on the web site. The main reason for the program is to aid in making of the character for the user to play. Piracy of other companies' content, either the compiled files for use of the program or relayed info from the builder within the program, is not a good reason to exclude them or disallow players to transfer the info needed to play the game.

I know Lonewolf has been very good at keeping IP from being "leaked" on their end, and a lot of mechanics of PF1 in particular had some very hard work arounds that put a strain on the program in the latter stages of it's run.

Something like this is perhaps the reason Lonewolf went to an Online App instead of sticking with the (Still superior) program. I am surprised that there isn't a bootleg of Etools somewhere around with all the extras up until it was yanked from the market.

It is well known for this? A surprise for me to hear this, as the licensing that the program uses makes it difficult, at least for the typical user.

 

[Roadie]

Copyright may be a reason, but I'd imagine that just as a big a reason has to be the .por format and all its legacy bits and custom XML trees being a pain in the butt to work with, as compared to the HLO API just giving you a big JSON feed that any half-competent web dev can write a parser for in an afternoon.

 

[Farling]

Copyright may be a reason, but I'd imagine that just as a big a reason has to be the .por format and all its legacy bits and custom XML trees being a pain in the butt to work with, as compared to the HLO API just giving you a big JSON feed that any half-competent web dev can write a parser for in an afternoon.

The import of the XML files from inside .por files isn't too complicated - my realm works importer is doing it for 2 (soon to be 3) game systems.

Foundry VTT provides core functionality which doesn't, by itself, directly support importing from anywhere. It is entirely up to community (or paid for) modules to provide any actual import/export functions.