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Feedback from completely new user

M

Mrakvampire

New member
For some time already I'm searching a software that will help me organize my games. Previously I for short period of time used something called Masterplan, but it's tied to D&D 4 ed, and as I play Pathfinder I quickly ceased to use it.

So, I've heard about Realm Works. Several month ago I purchased it, but only now decided to give it a try.

And I'm dissapointed.

Point 1. It's way too complex. Ok, maybe for some people it's good thing, but as it's my personal feedback - it's bad for me. I look at this mess of an interface and... ask myself - will it actually help me? will it actually help me organize my campaign? My first impression is that my notes in word format are easier to comprehend that scores of unintuitive windows, icons, types of text, etc.
Maybe if I'll spend hundreds of hours to master all its features it will shine... Maybe... I don't know, but frankly speaking, I don't have so much free time and that I have I'd better use on actual game.

Point 2. Ok, ok, let's assume I've spent a lot of time to master all the features of this software. But the thing is - it doesn't scale well.
All I need - is simple tool that will help me organize encounters of rather straightforward module, let's say Rise of the Runelords.
I need only 3 parts for every encounter - Name (with CR if combat), Text to read to players, Text for me. What I see now when I double click on encounter (plot point)? A lot of sublines, whose names use 40% of space on my screen. I don't need 8 (eight!) subtopics that should be filled, and are difficult to assess when I need to present encounter. All I need is click on plot point to be able to quickly assess all information for this encounter, similar to how it is presented in pdf/paper format of the module.

This post is a feedback only. Maybe it will be useful for GMs like me, that consider paying ~50 USD for this software. I don't want to start discussion with this feedback or to 'attack' developers - they've made obviously good and complex piece of software, it's just not for me.
 
I'm sorry to hear that your experience with Realm Works was unsatisfactory. Unlike a narrowly focused tool such as Masterplan, our objective with Realm Works is to create a tool that fully supports highly complex worlds and campaigns while also being very useful for smaller games. This presents a significant challenge, since some users will want all the bells and whistles, others will want none of them, and still others will want to pick and choose the ones that they like. It sounds like you fall into that middle group.

One of the most powerful aspects of Realm Works is that you can configure it in virtually any manner, tailoring it to your game and style. By default, content starts out with a rich and diverse set of options that you obviously consider overkill. For users like yourself, you can quickly go in and turn off the aspects that you don't want or need. Or you can custom create a structure that exactly fits your play style and preferences, with as much or as little to fill in as you want.

Yes, it takes a little bit of time to get familiar with Realm Works and tailor it the way you like, but that's true of any powerful piece of software. And compared to the amount of time GMs invest in prepping for games, it's a comparatively small investment that pays huge dividends once you're over the initial hump. Your assertion that it takes hundreds of hours to gain benefit from Realm Works seems quite exaggerated to me, but I'll let other users chime in with their assessment of how long it took them - I'm probably not a good gauge of that. :)

The most troubling reaction I have to your post is that you may have hamstrung yourself getting started with Realm Works. It sounds like you may not have watched the videos we created to get new users up to speed quickly. They are available alongside the documentation from within the product. There are also some great videos put together by users that offer additional examples and insights into putting Realm Works to use. Those resources can be invaluable in getting a handle on the product and making it work for you instead of being the complicated mess you experienced.

For prospective users who might read this thread, the videos are freely available, so you can take a look at how Realm Works operates before plunking down your hard-earned cash. There are also users here on the forums who are happy to show others what they've created and provide some pointers on how to get the most out of the product quickly. And we also offer a 60-day money back guarantee on all of our products, so there's no risk if you decide you don't like Realm Works after taking it for a spin.

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on Realm Works. I'm sorry you didn't like it, and hopefully this thread will provide some helpful pointers to new users that allow them to avoid having the same experience. Lastly, if you are still within the 60-day period, please open a support ticket and request a refund.
 
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Perhaps it will be easier for new users when the market place is ready and you buy the modules and worlds and what not? They will jump into a ready made world so the hassle of the creation (and its complication - being able to choose everything sometimes seems unbearable) will be shortened.

Just my 2c
 
Mrakvampire, I had a similar reaction when I first bought the program. It does have a bit of a learning curve and it really shines when used for on-going campaigns and world building. One of my complaints with other products I've used is the limitations I had to work around. RW allows me to customize it how I want. I am only using it for one campaign right now, but it can support any system or genre.

For those who don't intend to use it for world building, it may be over kill, but as Teresa pointed out, once the content market is available, you'll be able to buy adventures with everything filled in, providing an exceptionally powerful way to quickly prepare for game sessions. The CM will also make it much easier to figure out to use it for your own created content as you can copy the organization of content you purchase. For now, unfortunately, you will want to view the videos, go through the manuals, and read the forums. I think you'll find the forums particularly useful as there is an active user group willing to help new users.

Personally, I'm glad I took the time to get to know the software. I've found it an invaluable GM aid.
 
@Kairos I also started with a map. I know how I wanted my campaign to kick off, so I created a Known World topic, add the map and stuck a pin in the village where the campaign would kick off. Then I filled in the topic for the village, including a map and stuck pins into the various building creating locations for them.

The next thing was to use the Storyboard to map out the first adventure and created scene tops from that, which autolinked to the locations they occurred at because I had already created topics for the important locations.
 
Hmm...I almost hate responding to this post because it bumps up a thread with a thumbs-down icon to the top of the board.
 
I will admit that when I first bought Realm Works, I expected to log several campaigns; we rotate 3 GMs for a story arc, 2-3 sessions per month, 3-5 sessions per arc. It sat almost three months mostly unused.

Then a new GM started a new campaign. I started logging and documenting his home brew game world and our campaign. This broke everything down to manageable sized chunks. Since then, I've added a second GM's game and started adding my own. Adding existing games or trying to add a complete game world is too big a scope to start with, but piece by piece works well.

We are REALLY excited for player views. That is the missing piece to make it really functional for my game. Five of the players in our group have the players edition. It really helps us when we cycle around to a new arc in an existing campaign or when its been weeks since we last played in an arc.
 
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I must admit, it did take me some time to get an overview of how to use Realm Works (A Demo Realm would have helped me greatly here...), but now I love it. I can configure my campaign data just the way I need it. It's gr-8 once you've gotten up to speed as to how to use it. ;)
 
Helpful tip for new users: create a dummy realm first and load the tutorial content (it's a checkbox in the new realm wizard). Look over what's there. Spend some time seeing how it's been organised. Play around, add some characters and places of your own. Watch the videos, read the documentation (RW is about as far from pick up and play as you're ever likely to find: it's a hugely powerful and flexible piece of software, and the price you pay for that is a hefty learning curve, but once you're past that it is extremely helpful.
 
Hmm...I almost hate responding to this post because it bumps up a thread with a thumbs-down icon to the top of the board.
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Please don't be. Rob's reply is exemplary.

If any novices, new users or fence-sitters are reading, I encourage you to take the plunge and get RW or if you have it to stick with it. There's a learning curve but it is very customisable, and most importantly it's being actively improved and updated all the time by LWD.

I say this because I'm a novice GM like @Mrakvampire and when I first got RW my reaction was similar. It's obvious when you open it that it allows lots of detail to be put in, but it took me a long time to work out how to put things in 'broad strokes' - making a custom topic with just name, player text and GM text for example. When you are presented with lots of detail as a user, there is a psychological tendency to think you "should" be using it, especially if you just paid for a nice powerful piece of software. I remember sitting there thinking, ok I know what the buttons do... but where on earth do I start?

So Rob's reply here really helps to clarify the sheer challenge of making software like this when there are so many ways different people manage their games, and it REALLY helps people like me to have confidence that a) LWD are committed to the product and b) they take feedback seriously. Believe it or not many companies don't do this!

THAT SAID... I think that what's really needed is some more videos (if they are there I missed them), showing examples of inputting content in different ways (map approach, relationship approach, etc.). The tutorial videos show well what all the buttons do but don't demonstrate the process of going from the start (a cool idea in your head), to the end (data in RW and ready for the game). The tutorial realm is, in my view, a little too sparse to show this effectively.
 
MNBlockHead said:
Hmm...I almost hate responding to this post because it bumps up a thread with a thumbs-down icon to the top of the board.
Click to expand...

What @whump said. It's valuable for prospective new users to go in with both eyes wide open. If this thread better prepares a new user before diving in, then that's a good thing in the long run - both for the user AND for Realm Works' success, since we want users ultimately saying good things about the product. :) And if this thread ends up scaring off a few prospective users who aren't prepared to make an investment in the learning curve, that's also a good thing overall, since those prospective users probably weren't going to take the time to really have a great experience with the product. :)
 
I have a love hate relationship with Realm Works. I love the depth you can get with the data structures. However like the OP i believe Realm works is too busy and in a couple of cases i have had to alter a catagory/topic structure to work with my thought process.
 
I think more videos is always a good thing, but I find that what is most helpful is experienced DMs sharing and SHOWING how they built their realms. For example, look at the screenshots that Exmortis and other have shared. I am very eager for the content market, not only for a convenient way to buy content to integrate into my realm, but also to see how experienced RPG-adventure designers organize the content in RW.

I've tried to get a virtual-user group started, using web conferences to share how we use the software, but this has never gone anywhere. Luckily, I live in an area that seems to have a lot of RW users. I'm meeting with another forum member in-person at a local game shop to go over our use of RW. If there is anyone else in the Twin Cities (Minnesota, USA) area who would like to get together at The Source to discuss world building using RW, PM me.

Also, Rob, I would like to suggest that you think about creating a new forum dedicated specifically to sharing examples. Sort of like how the Cartographers Guild provides members with a forum to show off their work and solicit suggestions for improvement. Obviously it is easier to post a map, but It is not hard to take a number of screen shot to give folks the gist of how you are organizing things. And, once the content market is live, we can simply post notices of realms we are willing to share.
 
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MNBlockHead said:
Also, Rob, I would like to suggest that you think about creating a new forum dedicated specifically to sharing examples. Sort of like how the Cartographers Guild provides members with a forum to show off their work and solicit suggestions for improvement. Obviously it is easier to post a map, but It is not hard to take a number of screen shot to give folks the gist of how you are organizing things. And, once the content market is live, we can simply post notices of realms we are willing to share.
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TOPS idea! That may help new and perspective users see RW in action.

Also thanks for the mention.
 
I agree it's very intimidating. We get the same complaints for MapTool. But both are really only as complicated as you need it to be.

Rob, would it make sense to have some options when creating a new realm? Something like:

Level of Detail?
o Encounter
o Module
o Campaign
o World

With each filtering/hiding topics/categories or what not?
 
MNBlockHead said:
Hmm...I almost hate responding to this post because it bumps up a thread with a thumbs-down icon to the top of the board.
Click to expand...

I like to read negative reviews. It tells me what somebody thought was the worst possible thing about the product. If I read a bunch of 1-star reviews and think "That doesn't sound so bad" then I usually am more inclined to buy than if I see a lot of generic 4,5-star reviews.

What I took from his review: 1) He prefers running from the adventure book with paper notes. 2) He isn't the type of user to think programs like Photoshop or the Gimp are worth taking the time to learn. 3) He stopped using an incredibly useful program (Masterplan, a program I used previously) because he couldn't get past the focus on 4e to see the incredibly useful things the program could still do (link plots, maps, combat and trap statblocks, etc. All of which Realm Works does better, I have to say). Basically, he isn't the same type of user as me, and his bad experience isn't likely to impact my purchase of the product if I were on the fence.
 
interface is a mess

I have been using Realmworks for about a month now and I have to agree with the OP, the interface is a total mess.

IMHO the best thing Lone Wolf could do is retain someone who understands interface design to overhaul the app.

This would be FAR more beneficial than continuing to implement additional features.

As it stands I know three people who purchases this app (myself included), all of us are mature, older professionals with years of gaming and software experience under our belts.

I am the only one still using the Realmworks, the rest tossed it in disgust at the poor interface.

If Lone Wolf does not find someone who understands interfaces and focuses on improving things dramatically this app will remain the province of the few hardcore dedicated users.

Which would be a shame as it has some really powerful and useful features.
 
The interface is "bad" and you think they should make it "better." Do you have any specifics? What's not working? What's frustrating? LWD is not going to retain someone just to work on the interface, but the existing design team could certainly work on specific issues if they knew about them.
 
Mystic Lemur said:
The interface is "bad" and you think they should make it "better." Do you have any specifics? What's not working? What's frustrating? LWD is not going to retain someone just to work on the interface, but the existing design team could certainly work on specific issues if they knew about them.
Click to expand...

To be honest, even though I bought RW for my entire group and am using it once in a while, I have to agree with the OP on this count. The interface doesn't feel smooth (changing pages has considerably lag that is not PC-performance related), the gray backdrop and massive spacing between snippets makes things unappealing overall and pointless elements like the "..." next to, e.g. Character portraits (where I don't even know what I would be supposed to write there) are 'stressful' to me. More specifically, RW constantly makes me feel as if I am missing crucial information when in fact I could just have everything that's relevant in a Word document or, in my case, in a Roll20 character sheet or handout.

That's another point: if Realm Works, at some point in the future, will integrate with the Roll20 API, I'm sure I'll use it as a great offline interface for adding and organizing campaign content. Right now, however, I find that its somewhat slow and overdesigned structure hinders my creativity rather than aiding it.

I should probably note that unlike the OP, I don't run published adventures or settings on principle (it's easier for me to come up with my own than to study something someone else thought up). Maybe it's more useful for those, but I had hoped that it would help me fill in the blank spaces in my own setting more easily.
 
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