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Feature Request: AB3 Collapse\Exp All Trees in Roster Window

D

dmertz

New member
This is something I would have loved in 2.2c and REALLY would love to see in 3.0 now that it has a more traditional windows style tree.

I would like to be able to collapse or expand all the unit trees instead of having to click and collapse/expand each one individually.

Having these available as options in the right click menu, as buttons, or as key stroke combos (or all 3) would be great.

Thanks
 
Feature Request: AB3 CollapseExp All Trees in Roster Window

I have not seen something like this done in any of the products I regularly
use, and I'm having trouble envisioning what value this would really offer
to the majority of users. Please help me to understand how something like
this would be really useful.

Thanks, Rob

At 12:47 AM 7/6/2005 -0400, you wrote:

>This is something I would have loved in 2.2c and REALLY would love to see
>in 3.0 now that it has a more traditional windows style tree.
>
>I would like to be able to collapse or expand all the unit trees instead
>of having to click and collapse/expand each one individually.
>
>Having these available as options in the right click menu, as buttons, or
>as key stroke combos (or all 3) would be great.
>
>Thanks


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (408) 927-9880
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
 
The fewer number of clicks the better :)

As far as programs that use this, the left Folders Pane in Windows Explorer has a Collapse and Expand right click menu option, quite handy when dealing with a large number of drives or network drives on a system.

Army Lists in WH40K are a good example, especially if you play a "horde" style army such as Orks or Tyranids where for even moderate total points you can have quite a large number of individual units (making the roster tree large) with large number of sub-units (adding even more to the size of the tree structure).

This tree gets rather large, sometimes just one unit (for instance, a kitted out Warboss, retinue, and wartrukk) can take up an entire page or more of the roster window, and this is running AB3 in full screen mode in 1280x1024 res. Constantly scrolling up and down to get to units can be cumbersome and collapsing the trees for the units not currently being edited makes life easier.

Overviewing the army in the roster window is great. I personally find I get a better feel for the army this way, and recently I have been comparing unit point values created in AB3 using the latest data files with their hand calculated values to help debug errors in the data files and having a collapsed tree saves time and makes things easier.

Dragging and dropping the units into the order you wish to have them is also facilitated by a collapsed tree.

If you want to have all the units collapsed and overview the army in the roster window, you have to close each unit tree individually to collapse the entire army into the roster window. This is just cumbersome and time consuming and the problem is amplified by the fact that the tree "nodes" are relatively small and are easily missed when trying to click on them especially when running at higher resolutions (maybe make the nodes larger or allow an option for larger "dots") . The units can of course be collapsed or expanded by double clicking on the unit name which is a much larger target, but now you are doubling the number of clicks it takes to collapse the entire roster tree. This may seem trivial but with 15+ unit armies collapsing the tree is 15 or 30 left mouse clicks. I have to admit after doing this for a while one's index finger starts to get a little numb :)

With a collapse all or expand all trees I can quickly overview the list, in addition, if I want to just have 1 unit expanded this makes it even easier because I would just collapse all, then click and expand just the unit I want to edit without having to individually collapse all the unit trees but the desired unit and without having to constantly scroll up and down the roster.

Even when clicking or double clicking to expand a previously collapsed unit tree, you still have click or double click to expand each sub-unit in the main unit to expand its tree. Come to think of it, a third and fourth right mouse button menu of Collapse\Expanding every tree in the currently selected unit would be ideal. So now the options would be Expand All Roster Units, Collapse All Roster Units, Expand All in Selected Unit, and Collapse All in Selected Unit.

In the end its all about speed and the easier display of roster data and facilitating this display of data.

Thank you for your prompt response and more importantly, thank you for your time.
 
Feature Request: AB3 CollapseExp All Trees in Roster Window

There's definitely an "expand this level" and a "collapse this level"
option within Windows Explorer, but I sure don't see one to "expand all"
(or collapse all). AB3 already provides the ability to expand and collapse
individual levels (as is standard for tree views). The issue is whether it
makes sense to add additional options to effect the entire roster.

To that end, I agree with your reasons for adding the meta-level
expand/collapse. The question is how many people will actually take
advantage of the feature. The answer to that question ultimately drives how
important it is to add the feature. We've got a LONG list of stuff that
people have asked for (and that we already had planned). With each release,
we need to pick the stuff that will add the most value for the most users.
In this particular case, I don't see this as being more valuable than the
stuff we've already got planned for V3.1. So I'll put this on the request
list and we'll see how it compares to everything else on the todo list when
we start looking at V3.2.

Lastly, I checked the behavior of Explorer and discovered that it has a
"slop" margin around the various expand/collapse bitmaps (+/-), while AB
does not do that. We ought to be able to add a slop margin within AB in
time for V3.1.

Thanks, Rob

At 12:21 AM 7/7/2005 -0400, you wrote:

>The fewer number of clicks the better
>
>As far as programs that use this, the left Folders Pane in Windows
>Explorer has a Collapse and Expand right click menu option, quite handy
>when dealing with a large number of drives or network drives on a system.
>
>Army Lists in WH40K are a good example, especially if you play a "horde"
>style army such as Orks or Tyranids where for even moderate total points
>you can have quite a large number of individual units (making the roster
>tree large) with large number of sub-units (adding even more to the size
>of the tree structure).
>
>This tree gets rather large, sometimes just one unit (for instance, a
>kitted out Warboss, retinue, and wartrukk) can take up an entire page or
>more of the roster window, and this is running AB3 in full screen mode in
>1280x1024 res. Constantly scrolling up and down to get to units can be
>cumbersome and collapsing the trees for the units not currently being
>edited makes life easier.
>
>Overviewing the army in the roster window is great. I personally find I
>get a better feel for the army this way, and recently I have been
>comparing unit point values created in AB3 using the latest data files
>with their hand calculated values to help debug errors in the data files
>and having a collapsed tree saves time and makes things easier.
>
>Dragging and dropping the units into the order you wish to have them is
>also facilitated by a collapsed tree.
>
>If you want to have all the units collapsed and overview the army in the
>roster window, you have to close each unit tree individually to collapse
>the entire army into the roster window. This is just cumbersome and time
>consuming and the problem is amplified by the fact that the tree "nodes"
>are relatively small and are easily missed when trying to click on them
>especially when running at higher resolutions (maybe make the nodes larger
>or allow an option for larger "dots") . The units can of course be
>collapsed or expanded by double clicking on the unit name which is a much
>larger target, but now you are doubling the number of clicks it takes to
>collapse the entire roster tree. This may seem trivial but with 15+ unit
>armies collapsing the tree is 15 or 30 left mouse clicks. I have to admit
>after doing this for a while one's index finger starts to get a little numb
>
>With a collapse all or expand all trees I can quickly overview the list,
>in addition, if I want to just have 1 unit expanded this makes it even
>easier because I would just collapse all, then click and expand just the
>unit I want to edit without having to individually collapse all the unit
>trees but the desired unit and without having to constantly scroll up and
>down the roster.
>
>Even when clicking or double clicking to expand a previously collapsed
>unit tree, you still have click or double click to expand each sub-unit in
>the main unit to expand its tree. Come to think of it, a third and fourth
>right mouse button menu of Collapse\Expanding every tree in the currently
>selected unit would be ideal. So now the options would be Expand All
>Roster Units, Collapse All Roster Units, Expand All in Selected Unit, and
>Collapse All in Selected Unit.
>
>In the end its all about speed and the easier display of roster data and
>facilitating this display of data.
>
>Thank you for your prompt response and more importantly, thank you for
>your time.
>
>
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (408) 927-9880
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
 
Rob,

Thanks for the reply and explanation.

I completely understand other features having higher priorities as well as the cost/benefit ratio when determining new features.

I figure myself and others can make the requests and you guys sort them and prioritize them. :) Its great to have developers that take the time to listen to their users and engage them in dialogue.

As you pointed out, Explorer was a pretty simple example, I used it as an example mostly because anyone running windows has it and could check it out. I have been exposed to some custom software that handles various data types (resource and content creation and managment software as well as source control software) and have similar functionality for their tree structures. I know how useful these features have been in these software packages. Unfortunately, no one here would have access to those as an example.

The changes to the more common tree structure in AB3 was a great and welcome improvement. I think you guys have done a great job trying to balance the functionality and ease of use for AB3 and still make it accessible to an average user while providing more complex options and functions for "power users". I would not consider myself in that small percentile of folks considered "power users" so I guess this request comes from a fairly regular user and I appreciate you even considering it or putting it on "the list" :)

The slop margin for the tree "nodes" sounds like a great idea, but do not let it hold up the next release or folks might hunt me down and throw stones at me. :)

Thanks again for your time and patience.
 
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