Extremely Dissastisfied with DRM and Customer Support

[Perram]

I posted the following at the Pathfinder Software thread at Enworld, which sums up my issue:

Just a heads up for those of you who may be considering using HeroLab for Pathfinder.

The software can only be activated once every 120 days (4 months), and if you need to reinstall you have to email the companies support line and explain to them why you have to reinstall the software.

I enjoyed the software, but having just installed Windows 7 on my machine, I'm not enjoying that I currently can not use it while I wait for their support lines to get back to me.

Another note about Hero Lab:

Having not yet received a response to my email. I attempted to reach the company by phone, only to be informed by their answering service that they will not answer support related questions via their phone.

I then found out that their estimated email response time was 2-3 days.

Not a happy halfling.

Your software is pretty nifty, but your DRM restrictions and your customer service are unacceptable. Please strongly consider making changes on both of those fronts. And please get back to me concerning my issue quickly.

 

[rob]

I'm re-posting below the same answers I posted on the ENWorld thread....

The 120-day waiting period is in place so that a gaming group doesn't collectively buy one copy and then install it on everyone's computer. Every year, I watch 3-4 such groups walk up to the booth at GenCon and openly take up a collection to buy one copy that they plan to share once they get home. Those are the ones who *openly* do it, right in front of the company, so extrapolating that to how many would do it in private yields a scary number. If it weren't for these unabashed pirates, we wouldn't have to impose restrictions like this that inconvenience honest customers.

Anyone who needs to activate their license on a new computer or O/S installation sooner than the 120-day period needs to simply email tech support. We can waive the waiting period so you can get running again. Since the average consumer typically upgrades his system every 18-24 months, it's uncommon for users to run into this limit, and it strikes a balance that helps protect against the aforementioned pirates. For anyone curious for more info, complete details about our licensing are on our website (http://www.wolflair.com).

Licensing issues are typically handled within 24 hours during the week. Since many folks seem to not understand that we don't all work seven days a week, the 2-3 days covers the weekends. Depending on support volume and everything else we're trying to juggle (we're a tiny company), we can also sometimes take an extra day to clear an email through the support queue. And major technical issues get routed to us developers, which usually takes an extra day or two. We'd rather estimate 2-3 days and reply in one day than do the opposite.

P.S. If you happen to have left us a voice mail this afternoon, you insisted we contact you back, but neglected to include any information about yourself. No name, no email address, no license number, no phone number. That makes it extremely difficult to contact you back about anything. :-(

 

[Perram]

Yeah, that was me. And my mistake for that, I get forgetful when I'm upset. Left you my contact information in a PM at EnWorld. As well as the following suggestion:

My suggestion? Do what Adobe, Apple, etc... does with their activations: Allow the software to be 'deactivated' and thus allowing the software to be installed somewhere else while at the same time making sure its only installed on one compupter.

I can't find myself going 'All DRM Bad!' for your circumstances, especially after reading about your experiences here and the 4:1 pirated copies you talked about elsewhere. But I still think your DRM implementation is a bit too restrictive as it stands.

 

[SeeleyOne]

How often do you get a new computer? I don't know about how often you get yourself a new system, but most people that I know get a new system every year at the most often, usually 2-3 years. That even includes my computer techie friends and family. I am thinking that 120 days is actually rather reasonable. However, I do agree that deactivating it first can be a good option.

 

[Perram]

How often do you get a new computer? I don't know about how often you get yourself a new system, but most people that I know get a new system every year at the most often, usually 2-3 years. That even includes my computer techie friends and family. I am thinking that 120 days is actually rather reasonable. However, I do agree that deactivating it first can be a good option.

For me its actually not getting a new computer, but formatting often. I upgrade my rig fairly frequently for various reasons (keeping up with games, new O.S., Bigger Hard Drive, etc.) and often have to reformat when I do. I also format frequently just as a policy of keeping my system tidy.

Edit: Granted, I don't imagine I'll run into this limitation again for awhile, but I've had to redo my computer enough times that this is a concern. Being able to deactivate before a reformat like I do with my copy of Photoshop and my iTunes account would mena I wouldn't need to send in emails.

 

[rob]

My suggestion? Do what Adobe, Apple, etc... does with their activations: Allow the software to be 'deactivated' and thus allowing the software to be installed somewhere else while at the same time making sure its only installed on one compupter.

As before, I've duplicating my ENWorld response below. I'd be interested in everyone's opinion on the options I outline at the bottom.

We looked into doing this 5-6 years ago. The problem with this approach is that the majority of our users re-assign their license due to UNplanned events, such as viruses, disk crashes, and operating system upgrades without first stopping to remember about the need to deactivate their license. Consequently, most of our users would not have properly deactivated their license in the first place.

That being said, it might make sense to offer the deactivation option *in addition* to the current option. This would allow those users who DO think ahead to avoid the hassle. But how many users would that be?

The ultimate question is how many users would it really benefit and what is the comparative value of adding deactivation versus a different feature that more users would potentially find valuable. Since we're a tiny company with very limited resources, we need to weigh the relative benefits of every feature before adding it to the product. I don't know the answer to this question, so I'd be interested in hearing feedback from folks.

 

[rob]

For me its actually not getting a new computer, but formatting often. I upgrade my rig fairly frequently for various reasons (keeping up with games, new O.S., Bigger Hard Drive, etc.) and often have to reformat when I do. I also format frequently just as a policy of keeping my system tidy.

Reformatting and reinstalling everything repeatedly is a huge timesink. Have you considered using a tool like Ghost to take a snapshot of the O/S that can be quickly restored? Actually, with Windows 7, you don't even need a separate tool anymore. Just install the O/S, then all the drivers, then all your core applications. Before going further, do a full backup and save it on an external drive somewhere. Then you can restore everything back to that point very easily.

If you use a technique like this, Hero Lab will typically report the same "identity" for your computer each time. I believe that applications like Photoshop and iTunes will generally do the same. That could potentially eliminate lots of hassle for you.

 

[huntercc]

@rob:

The ultimate question is how many users would it really benefit and what is the comparative value of adding deactivation versus a different feature that more users would potentially find valuable. Since we're a tiny company with very limited resources, we need to weigh the relative benefits of every feature before adding it to the product. I don't know the answer to this question, so I'd be interested in hearing feedback from folks.

I think you would have to weigh that against how much effort it would take to implement such a feature. If it were a lot of effort, it may not be worth it.

@Pellam:
May I suggest that in the future, you don't install a new OS a mere few days before you *need* to use your software again? I agree with Rob and many others that 120 days is generous when you consider how often most people would need to reactivate their licenses, not to mention the fact that the free secondary license can easily be used in the meantime.

 

[Perram]

@Pellam:
May I suggest that in the future, you don't install a new OS a mere few days before you *need* to use your software again? I agree with Rob and many others that 120 days is generous when you consider how often most people would need to reactivate their licenses, not to mention the fact that the free secondary license can easily be used in the meantime.

One update every 120 days may be sufficient for most people, but it is not 'generous' any more than not being strip searched, only padded down at the air port is 'generous.' Its a limitation and restriction on how I can use software that I've purchased. Could it be worse? Of course, but it most certainly could also be better.

Wanting to be in control of when and how I legally use my software and my computer is not an unreasonable expectation. Both your suggestion and Rob's are ways to 'work around' the problem, but doesn't eliminate the existence of the problem. I'm still jumping through hoops at the behest of this software's DRM.

As for the secondary license? If I had used it for its intended stated purpose (installing the software on a second computer, such as my laptop.) That would not have been an option either. But even doing that was a bumpy process. (This case was a compatibility issue with Windows 7, and not the system however.)

 

[Basilforth]

Well, I just rebuilt my system less than 120 days from purchasing my software. I understand the need for Lonewolf to secure their property and don't really have a problem with their requirements for reactivation.

That said, I submitted my request for reactivate last night and I am eagerly waiting for my unlocked license. How will I know it is unlocked? Will I get an e-mail? Will the license registration function in the program simply work again?

 

[rob]

That said, I submitted my request for reactivate last night and I am eagerly waiting for my unlocked license. How will I know it is unlocked? Will I get an e-mail? Will the license registration function in the program simply work again?

You should get an email back from Nancy once she's taken care of things on our server. After that, you simply go through the Re-activate License wizard again.

I assume that you have received the acknowledgement email from us? If not, please check your spam folder, since each email to support triggers an automatic reply that you should have received.

 

[Frodie]

Apparently, my DRM changed when I cleaned my registry, I haven't sent an e-mail to fix it yet, (I will later on), but am I going to have to go through this every time I clean my computer?

 

[Basilforth]

You should get an email back from Nancy once she's taken care of things on our server. After that, you simply go through the Re-activate License wizard again.

I assume that you have received the acknowledgement email from us? If not, please check your spam folder, since each email to support triggers an automatic reply that you should have received.

Yep, I received the acknowledge stating that it would take 2-3 business days for resolution. Thanks.

 

[rob]

Yep, I received the acknowledge stating that it would take 2-3 business days for resolution. Thanks.

Nancy *usually* checks the support queue daily, but there are exceptions. Plus it seems lots of folks assume that weekends are standard workdays for everyone here. :-( The 2-3 day estimate is because we'd rather estimate high and get you a response early than have the reverse occur. You'll usually get a reply in 24-36 hours during the week, but sometimes it can take longer.

 

[flamepulse]

Apparently, my DRM changed when I cleaned my registry, I haven't sent an e-mail to fix it yet, (I will later on), but am I going to have to go through this every time I clean my computer?

i run registry cleaners at least once a month and have never had that problem. that must have been a fluke. what program you use to clean?

 

[rob]

Apparently, my DRM changed when I cleaned my registry, I haven't sent an e-mail to fix it yet, (I will later on), but am I going to have to go through this every time I clean my computer?

The "identity" of a computer does factor in data that is in the registry. However, that info should *never* be "cleaned" from the registry. It's established when the operating system is installed and should thereafter remain consistent - and present.

If you are using a tool that aggressively removes info that is considered standard registry info, you could potentially have your computer's "identity" change. But then you're not simply "cleaning" your registry at that point.

Please give me some info about what this "cleaning" operation entailed. Normal cleaning (i.e. removal of orphaned registry keys) should never change the "identity" of a computer. If your computer's identity did change, then I need to understand what the "cleaning" operation is actually doing. Only then can I accurately answer your question about where this will be a recurring issue for you.

In the meantime, send an email to support with your license number so Nancy can get things unlocked for you. However, do *NOT* re-activate the license immediately. Let's get this figured out first, as it might entail you running the process again to get me additional info. Once we figure this out, you can re-activate the license. By contacting support now, you can have everything ready to go once we nail this down.

 

[Frodie]

Hey thanks for the quick reply. Anyways I am using "Advanced SystemCare" and the normal system cleaning tools on Windows 7 Ult x64 Op sys. I'm starting a new game "Pathfinder" and this will be the first time I use this software for my game. So I would like to use it, (seems cool), but the DRM is a little buggy, (or it could very well just be me, lol). Anyways, thanks for your help.

 

[flamepulse]

Hey thanks for the quick reply. Anyways I am using "Advanced SystemCare" and the normal system cleaning tools on Windows 7 Ult x64 Op sys. I'm starting a new game "Pathfinder" and this will be the first time I use this software for my game. So I would like to use it, (seems cool), but the DRM is a little buggy, (or it could very well just be me, lol). Anyways, thanks for your help.

that is definatly not a good program to use. it can cause more harm then good to any computer. Are you using hte free version or the paid?

If you want a good registry system clener get norton utilities, form my experiance its the best. ive been using it for a year now and its been keeping my system running smooth.

I actuqlly use the trial version when i do work on clients computers. One of the first programs i run when i do a system cleanup.

 

[rob]

Hey thanks for the quick reply. Anyways I am using "Advanced SystemCare" and the normal system cleaning tools on Windows 7 Ult x64 Op sys. I'm starting a new game "Pathfinder" and this will be the first time I use this software for my game. So I would like to use it, (seems cool), but the DRM is a little buggy, (or it could very well just be me, lol). Anyways, thanks for your help.

I'm not familiar with the "Advanced SystemCare" tool, but it definitely sounds like it's doing something dodgy. Since flamepulse seems to have had bad experiences with it, it's likely the tool is the source of the problem.

The DRM we're using has been in place for 7 years now, being first introduced in 2002 with our Card Vault product. We have tens of thousands of customers using it with our various products, and this is the very first time I've ever heard of a problem with any registry cleaner causing a problem like this.

Is it possible that you've run other tools as well that could have deleted stuff from the Registry?

You never specified the error message that you were given. So I've been assuming you were told you had to wait 120 days to re-assign the license. However, if you received a different error message, something completely different could be going on. So what is the error message?

Did you switch to a different user account? That will sometimes cause the product to revert back to demo mode. If that happened, you simply need to re-run the license activation wizard from within the new user account so that everything works properly from the second user account. The "identity" of your computer should remain unchanged. However, it all needs to be setup properly from the second user account, too.

It's also possible something completely different has occurred. I'm just taking wild guesses at this point, since I don't know the error message and/or a description of what Hero Lab is doing wrong. Once you provide that, I'll be able to suggest something better.

 

[SAbel]

If I can't say something nice then ...
Well after taking time to think this over I will say I have been using Lone Wolf products since Army Builder 1 and I believe in all the products, They have not missled me in any purchases, Forum support is Top notce, and these guys are formost gamers then they provide us with some great programs. 1 problem in 7 years with a specific item that does not relate to the program or how it works then I SAY great work guys keep it up.
Now I have to stop b/c I got nothing else good to say!