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There are 7 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
From: "TAGARNO A/S - Niels Peter Gibe" <np@tagarno.dk>
2. Re: Emperor's Children Problem and Tyranid Q&A
From: Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister <demandred@skrill.org>
3. Re: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
From: Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister <demandred@skrill.org>
4. SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
From: "TAGARNO A/S - Niels Peter Gibe" <np@tagarno.dk>
5. SV: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
From: "TAGARNO A/S - Niels Peter Gibe" <np@tagarno.dk>
6. Re: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
From: Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister <demandred@skrill.org>
7. SV: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
From: "TAGARNO A/S - Niels Peter Gibe" <np@tagarno.dk>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:14:29 +0100
From: "TAGARNO A/S - Niels Peter Gibe" <np@tagarno.dk>
Subject: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister [mailto:demandred@skrill.org]
Sendt: 25. februar 2001 01:43
Til: armybuilder@yahoogroups.com
Emne: Re: [AB] Tyranid Monstrosities
> Speaking of which, when it says "25% of cost of vehicle", does it
> mean cost including everything, including psychic powers,
> weapons, and other upgrades etc.? I assume so...
The easiest way to find out is to do the math yourself. Try to re-calculate the Malefactor and you'll see how GW found a price of 268 points.
BTW: Below is 4 things from the official GW Tyranid FAQ that hasn't been corrected in the AB files. The link to the FAQ is http://www.games-workshop.com/40kuniverse/warhammer40k/tyranids/tyrqanda.htm
1: (This one is more as info - We did discuss it earlier)
Q: Page 38 and 39 of the codex seem to contradict each other with respect to Warriors with heavy weapon bio-modifications. On Page 38 it says that Warriors with Heavy weapons are HQ or Heavy, and on 39 it says that More than one heavy weapon makes them Heavy. What is the correct way to interpret this? Should it be that if they have one they are HQ or Heavy and
if more they are Heavy only? or is one or the other a misprint?
A: p39 has the mistake, they should be HQ or Heavy Support in either case.
2:
Q: In the Codex Tyranids army list (page 13) it has Ripper Swarms listed as 3-10 in a brood. The Ripper Swarm Biomorph Table (page 40) it has the brood listed as 5-10. Which is correct?
A. The Army List
B. The Biomorph List
C. Both at correct, it just depends on which place you get your Rippers from?
A: And the answer is....A.
3:
Q: In the Tyranid Codex the Hive Tyrant Psychic power 'Warp Blast' has a different cost depending on whether you use the Army List one vs a Genomorphed one. All of the other powers are the same cost. Is this a typo or is it correct?
A: Again use the army list as the guide here, making it 20 pts.
4:
Q: If I create a new Hive Tyrant species using the rules in the back, can that creature take a Tyrant Guard brood?
A: Assuming you've chosen Tyrant Guard as one of your species, yes.
Niels Peter Gibe
[This message contained attachments]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:11:48 +0000
From: Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister <demandred@skrill.org>
Subject: Re: Emperor's Children Problem and Tyranid Q&A
At 19:16 25/02/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>When creating an Emperor's Children army with a Daemon Prince, you
>still get the error message "An Emperor's Children Army must be led
>by a Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince with the Mark of Slaanesh." even
>when the Mark of Slaanesh is selected in the Options list.
Oops..
>Also, GW has posted a Tyranid Q&A on the UK web site at
>http://www.games-
>workshop.com/40kuniverse/warhammer40k/tyranids/tyrqanda.htm
Ta, I'll incorporate those.
--
'Not Colin' McAlister - License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
-----------------------------+------------------------------------
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:19:27 +0000
From: Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister <demandred@skrill.org>
Subject: Re: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
At 13:14 26/02/2001 +0100, you wrote:
> > Speaking of which, when it says "25% of cost of vehicle", does it
> > mean cost including everything, including psychic powers,
> > weapons, and other upgrades etc.? I assume so...
>
>The easiest way to find out is to do the math yourself. Try to
>re-calculate the Malefactor and you'll see how GW found a price of 268 points.
I did... IIRC it came out as 243, exactly 25 points less. I'm still
confused :/ And anyway, the Malefactor isn't a Tunneller... is it?
>BTW: Below is 4 things from the official GW Tyranid FAQ that hasn't been
>corrected in the AB files. The link to the FAQ is
><http://www.games-workshop.com/40kuniverse/warhammer40k/tyranids/tyrqanda.htm>http://www.games-workshop.com/40kuniverse/warhammer40k/tyranids/tyrqanda.htm
>
Nothing from the faq has been corrected in the AB files, as I didn't learn
of it's existence until after I'd released v2.21
--
'Not Colin' McAlister - License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
-----------------------------+------------------------------------
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:11:21 +0100
From: "TAGARNO A/S - Niels Peter Gibe" <np@tagarno.dk>
Subject: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
Hi Colen
A few observations about your monstosity AB file.
.............................
When I build a standard Malefactor, read: as in the WD, with AB it ends up costing 243 points - not 268 as in the WD.
This is how I do the math: (Use a Courier font to see it neat)
Stats:
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv Mass
4 4 7 8 5 2 4 10 2+ 0
Item Running total
Base cost: 50 x mass + 10 x Wound = 50 50
Base Mod: T8, SV2+: 100% = 50 100
Move Mod: Fast: 25% (of total) = 25 125
Bio Weap: Scything talons
Att x S x I mod x WS mod
4 x 7 x 1 x 1 = 28 153
Spinefist
Base x BS mod x A mod
10 x 150% x 200% (30)
Massive modifier
Weap cost x 200%: 30 x 200% = 60 213
Add feature: Transport: Capacity x 5: 11 x 5 = 55 268
As you see, this way I end up with the same result as WD. I can't really see how you do it in AB (and I don't have the time to examine the file with the AB creator). As I see it, you give the creature a base cost, before weapons etc. are added, a base cost of 121 points, not 100 as I have after the Base modifier (T and Save related) are added. I suspect that some of the point difference somehow are related to CC weapons, eventhough none have been added yet - at least the difference changes when the WS, S, I and A stats are changed, and these are all included in the CC weapon cost.
I haven't tried with other WD creatures, as I'm really only interested in the Malefactor. I have two Armourcast models I want to use.
.............................
When adding weapons to a Monstosity (with no Mass points) there is no problem in giving it 2 sets of scything talons, lashwhip, rending claws and two range weapons - all at once.
I think you should add a selectable "Gargantuan" stat to the creatures.
If this is selected, a creature can have 1-x mass points and between 2 and 4 bio-weapons. If the stat isn't selected the creature has 0 mass points and can (must) have only 2 bio-weapons.
.............................
If a Spinefist (or other weapon) is bought as being Massive it gets S+1 and AP-1, but this isn't included in the description on the rooster. - in fact the text "Massive" isn't even included on the printout, thogh it is on the screen.
.............................
Would it be possible to include a monstrsity, which have transport capability, to a brood of, say, genestealers?
.............................
Btw: What does the cost line in the Description field mean? (Eg: 10/15/15/20/20/25 for Acid spray) It seems to besomthing that should be removed from the description field.
Niels Peter Gibe
TAGARNO A/S
HATTINGVEJ 5
DK-8700 HORSENS
TEL.: +45 7625 1111
WWW.TAGARNO.DK
[This message contained attachments]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:14:00 +0100
From: "TAGARNO A/S - Niels Peter Gibe" <np@tagarno.dk>
Subject: SV: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
> I did... IIRC it came out as 243, exactly 25 points less. I'm still
> confused :/ And anyway, the Malefactor isn't a Tunneller... is it?
No it isn't. But I included the math in me previous post.
> Nothing from the faq has been corrected in the AB files, as I didn't learn
> of it's existence until after I'd released v2.21
Either you gotta' be more psychic or you have to get an arrangement with those GW dudes...
[This message contained attachments]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:00:34 +0000
From: Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister <demandred@skrill.org>
Subject: Re: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
At 17:11 26/02/2001 +0100, you wrote:
>Hi Colen
>
>A few observations about your monstosity AB file.
>
>.............................
>When I build a standard Malefactor, read: as in the WD, with AB it ends up
>costing 243 points - not 268 as in the WD.
>This is how I do the math: (Use a Courier font to see it neat)
>
>Stats:
>WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv Mass
> 4 4 7 8 5 2 4 10 2+ 0
> Item Running total
>Base cost: 50 x mass + 10 x Wound = 50 50
>Base Mod: T8, SV2+: 100% = 50 100
>Move Mod: Fast: 25% (of total) = 25 125
>Bio Weap: Scything talons
> Att x S x I mod x WS mod
> 4 x 7 x 1 x 1 = 28 153
Yep, fine up until here.
> Spinefist
> Base x BS mod x A mod
> 10 x 150% x 200% (30)
>
> Massive modifier
> Weap cost x 200%: 30 x 200% = 60 213
Whoa, silver!
The way I would do it:
Base Spinefist 10
BS Mod 50%
Att Mod 100%
Massive Mod 100%
-------------------
Total 250%
250% of 10 = 25. 25 + 10 = 35, which is what AB calculates. This is the way
the example on page 47 calculates weapon costs...
The calculations you do above confuse me - BS mod is 50% and Att mod is
100%, which makes 150, not 200. The massive modifier is 100%, not 200%.
>Add feature: Transport: Capacity x 5: 11 x 5 = 55 268
This is cool.
>As you see, this way I end up with the same result as WD. I can't really
>see how you do it in AB (and I don't have the time to examine the file
>with the AB creator). As I see it, you give the creature a base cost,
>before weapons etc. are added, a base cost of 121 points, not 100 as I
>have after the Base modifier (T and Save related) are added. I suspect
>that some of the point difference somehow are related to CC weapons,
>eventhough none have been added yet - at least the difference changes when
>the WS, S, I and A stats are changed, and these are all included in the CC
>weapon cost.
>
>I haven't tried with other WD creatures, as I'm really only interested in
>the Malefactor. I have two Armourcast models I want to use.
The Malefactor and Dactylis come out wrong with Army Builder, and the way I
and someone else calculated them independently.
>.............................
>When adding weapons to a Monstosity (with no Mass points) there is no
>problem in giving it 2 sets of scything talons, lashwhip, rending claws
>and two range weapons - all at once.
>
>I think you should add a selectable "Gargantuan" stat to the creatures.
>If this is selected, a creature can have 1-x mass points and between 2 and
>4 bio-weapons. If the stat isn't selected the creature has 0 mass points
>and can (must) have only 2 bio-weapons.
Pay attention to the soft validation errors
Taking 1 mass point automatically classes the creature as Gargantuan, with
the associated annoyances.
>.............................
>If a Spinefist (or other weapon) is bought as being Massive it gets S+1
>and AP-1, but this isn't included in the description on the rooster. - in
>fact the text "Massive" isn't even included on the printout, thogh it is
>on the screen.
Dangit.
>.............................
>Would it be possible to include a monstrsity, which have transport
>capability, to a brood of, say, genestealers?
What do you mean by this?
>............................
>Btw: What does the cost line in the Description field
>mean? (Eg: 10/15/15/20/20/25 for Acid spray) It seems to besomthing that
>should be removed from the description field.
It's the costs for S5/6/7/8/9/10. I decided it should be displayed somewhere...
--
'Not Colin' McAlister - License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
-----------------------------+------------------------------------
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:24:48 +0100
From: "TAGARNO A/S - Niels Peter Gibe" <np@tagarno.dk>
Subject: SV: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
>> Spinefist
>> Base x BS mod x A mod
>> 10 x 150% x 200% (30)
>>
>> Massive modifier
>> Weap cost x 200%: 30 x 200% = 60 213
>The way I would do it:
>Base Spinefist 10
>BS Mod 50%
>Att Mod 100%
>Massive Mod 100%
>-------------------
>Total 250%
>250% of 10 = 25. 25 + 10 = 35, which is what AB calculates. This is the way
>the example on page 47 calculates weapon costs...
I read what you write and though the method you use seems logical, we can see that it doesn't give the same results, as the examples in the book.
I think that the important thing is the following text from the upgrade descriptions:
"The upgrade adds x% of the weapon's normal cost to its value.".
If the normal weapon value is calculated as:
Normal Price = Base prise x BS mod x A mod
Then the final value is calculated as:
Final value = Normal Prixe x (Sum of upgrade modifiers)
eg.
Ranged, Massive Str 7 Spinefist w. BS4, A3:
Normal Price = 10 x 150% x 200% = 30 points.
Final Value = 30 x (250%) = 75 points.
I agree with you, that the example on page 47 says something else, so we have to ask GW which method is correct.
Niels Peter Gibe
TAGARNO A/S
HATTINGVEJ 5
DK-8700 HORSENS
TEL.: +45 7625 1111
WWW.TAGARNO.DK
[This message contained attachments]
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 7 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
From: "TAGARNO A/S - Niels Peter Gibe" <np@tagarno.dk>
2. Re: Emperor's Children Problem and Tyranid Q&A
From: Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister <demandred@skrill.org>
3. Re: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
From: Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister <demandred@skrill.org>
4. SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
From: "TAGARNO A/S - Niels Peter Gibe" <np@tagarno.dk>
5. SV: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
From: "TAGARNO A/S - Niels Peter Gibe" <np@tagarno.dk>
6. Re: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
From: Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister <demandred@skrill.org>
7. SV: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
From: "TAGARNO A/S - Niels Peter Gibe" <np@tagarno.dk>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:14:29 +0100
From: "TAGARNO A/S - Niels Peter Gibe" <np@tagarno.dk>
Subject: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister [mailto:demandred@skrill.org]
Sendt: 25. februar 2001 01:43
Til: armybuilder@yahoogroups.com
Emne: Re: [AB] Tyranid Monstrosities
> Speaking of which, when it says "25% of cost of vehicle", does it
> mean cost including everything, including psychic powers,
> weapons, and other upgrades etc.? I assume so...
The easiest way to find out is to do the math yourself. Try to re-calculate the Malefactor and you'll see how GW found a price of 268 points.
BTW: Below is 4 things from the official GW Tyranid FAQ that hasn't been corrected in the AB files. The link to the FAQ is http://www.games-workshop.com/40kuniverse/warhammer40k/tyranids/tyrqanda.htm
1: (This one is more as info - We did discuss it earlier)
Q: Page 38 and 39 of the codex seem to contradict each other with respect to Warriors with heavy weapon bio-modifications. On Page 38 it says that Warriors with Heavy weapons are HQ or Heavy, and on 39 it says that More than one heavy weapon makes them Heavy. What is the correct way to interpret this? Should it be that if they have one they are HQ or Heavy and
if more they are Heavy only? or is one or the other a misprint?
A: p39 has the mistake, they should be HQ or Heavy Support in either case.
2:
Q: In the Codex Tyranids army list (page 13) it has Ripper Swarms listed as 3-10 in a brood. The Ripper Swarm Biomorph Table (page 40) it has the brood listed as 5-10. Which is correct?
A. The Army List
B. The Biomorph List
C. Both at correct, it just depends on which place you get your Rippers from?
A: And the answer is....A.
3:
Q: In the Tyranid Codex the Hive Tyrant Psychic power 'Warp Blast' has a different cost depending on whether you use the Army List one vs a Genomorphed one. All of the other powers are the same cost. Is this a typo or is it correct?
A: Again use the army list as the guide here, making it 20 pts.
4:
Q: If I create a new Hive Tyrant species using the rules in the back, can that creature take a Tyrant Guard brood?
A: Assuming you've chosen Tyrant Guard as one of your species, yes.
Niels Peter Gibe
[This message contained attachments]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:11:48 +0000
From: Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister <demandred@skrill.org>
Subject: Re: Emperor's Children Problem and Tyranid Q&A
At 19:16 25/02/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>When creating an Emperor's Children army with a Daemon Prince, you
>still get the error message "An Emperor's Children Army must be led
>by a Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince with the Mark of Slaanesh." even
>when the Mark of Slaanesh is selected in the Options list.
Oops..
>Also, GW has posted a Tyranid Q&A on the UK web site at
>http://www.games-
>workshop.com/40kuniverse/warhammer40k/tyranids/tyrqanda.htm
Ta, I'll incorporate those.
--
'Not Colin' McAlister - License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
-----------------------------+------------------------------------
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:19:27 +0000
From: Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister <demandred@skrill.org>
Subject: Re: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
At 13:14 26/02/2001 +0100, you wrote:
> > Speaking of which, when it says "25% of cost of vehicle", does it
> > mean cost including everything, including psychic powers,
> > weapons, and other upgrades etc.? I assume so...
>
>The easiest way to find out is to do the math yourself. Try to
>re-calculate the Malefactor and you'll see how GW found a price of 268 points.
I did... IIRC it came out as 243, exactly 25 points less. I'm still
confused :/ And anyway, the Malefactor isn't a Tunneller... is it?
>BTW: Below is 4 things from the official GW Tyranid FAQ that hasn't been
>corrected in the AB files. The link to the FAQ is
><http://www.games-workshop.com/40kuniverse/warhammer40k/tyranids/tyrqanda.htm>http://www.games-workshop.com/40kuniverse/warhammer40k/tyranids/tyrqanda.htm
>
Nothing from the faq has been corrected in the AB files, as I didn't learn
of it's existence until after I'd released v2.21
--
'Not Colin' McAlister - License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
-----------------------------+------------------------------------
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:11:21 +0100
From: "TAGARNO A/S - Niels Peter Gibe" <np@tagarno.dk>
Subject: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
Hi Colen
A few observations about your monstosity AB file.
.............................
When I build a standard Malefactor, read: as in the WD, with AB it ends up costing 243 points - not 268 as in the WD.
This is how I do the math: (Use a Courier font to see it neat)
Stats:
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv Mass
4 4 7 8 5 2 4 10 2+ 0
Item Running total
Base cost: 50 x mass + 10 x Wound = 50 50
Base Mod: T8, SV2+: 100% = 50 100
Move Mod: Fast: 25% (of total) = 25 125
Bio Weap: Scything talons
Att x S x I mod x WS mod
4 x 7 x 1 x 1 = 28 153
Spinefist
Base x BS mod x A mod
10 x 150% x 200% (30)
Massive modifier
Weap cost x 200%: 30 x 200% = 60 213
Add feature: Transport: Capacity x 5: 11 x 5 = 55 268
As you see, this way I end up with the same result as WD. I can't really see how you do it in AB (and I don't have the time to examine the file with the AB creator). As I see it, you give the creature a base cost, before weapons etc. are added, a base cost of 121 points, not 100 as I have after the Base modifier (T and Save related) are added. I suspect that some of the point difference somehow are related to CC weapons, eventhough none have been added yet - at least the difference changes when the WS, S, I and A stats are changed, and these are all included in the CC weapon cost.
I haven't tried with other WD creatures, as I'm really only interested in the Malefactor. I have two Armourcast models I want to use.
.............................
When adding weapons to a Monstosity (with no Mass points) there is no problem in giving it 2 sets of scything talons, lashwhip, rending claws and two range weapons - all at once.
I think you should add a selectable "Gargantuan" stat to the creatures.
If this is selected, a creature can have 1-x mass points and between 2 and 4 bio-weapons. If the stat isn't selected the creature has 0 mass points and can (must) have only 2 bio-weapons.
.............................
If a Spinefist (or other weapon) is bought as being Massive it gets S+1 and AP-1, but this isn't included in the description on the rooster. - in fact the text "Massive" isn't even included on the printout, thogh it is on the screen.
.............................
Would it be possible to include a monstrsity, which have transport capability, to a brood of, say, genestealers?
.............................
Btw: What does the cost line in the Description field mean? (Eg: 10/15/15/20/20/25 for Acid spray) It seems to besomthing that should be removed from the description field.
Niels Peter Gibe
TAGARNO A/S
HATTINGVEJ 5
DK-8700 HORSENS
TEL.: +45 7625 1111
WWW.TAGARNO.DK
[This message contained attachments]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:14:00 +0100
From: "TAGARNO A/S - Niels Peter Gibe" <np@tagarno.dk>
Subject: SV: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
> I did... IIRC it came out as 243, exactly 25 points less. I'm still
> confused :/ And anyway, the Malefactor isn't a Tunneller... is it?
No it isn't. But I included the math in me previous post.
> Nothing from the faq has been corrected in the AB files, as I didn't learn
> of it's existence until after I'd released v2.21
Either you gotta' be more psychic or you have to get an arrangement with those GW dudes...
[This message contained attachments]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:00:34 +0000
From: Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister <demandred@skrill.org>
Subject: Re: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
At 17:11 26/02/2001 +0100, you wrote:
>Hi Colen
>
>A few observations about your monstosity AB file.
>
>.............................
>When I build a standard Malefactor, read: as in the WD, with AB it ends up
>costing 243 points - not 268 as in the WD.
>This is how I do the math: (Use a Courier font to see it neat)
>
>Stats:
>WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv Mass
> 4 4 7 8 5 2 4 10 2+ 0
> Item Running total
>Base cost: 50 x mass + 10 x Wound = 50 50
>Base Mod: T8, SV2+: 100% = 50 100
>Move Mod: Fast: 25% (of total) = 25 125
>Bio Weap: Scything talons
> Att x S x I mod x WS mod
> 4 x 7 x 1 x 1 = 28 153
Yep, fine up until here.
> Spinefist
> Base x BS mod x A mod
> 10 x 150% x 200% (30)
>
> Massive modifier
> Weap cost x 200%: 30 x 200% = 60 213
Whoa, silver!
The way I would do it:
Base Spinefist 10
BS Mod 50%
Att Mod 100%
Massive Mod 100%
-------------------
Total 250%
250% of 10 = 25. 25 + 10 = 35, which is what AB calculates. This is the way
the example on page 47 calculates weapon costs...
The calculations you do above confuse me - BS mod is 50% and Att mod is
100%, which makes 150, not 200. The massive modifier is 100%, not 200%.
>Add feature: Transport: Capacity x 5: 11 x 5 = 55 268
This is cool.
>As you see, this way I end up with the same result as WD. I can't really
>see how you do it in AB (and I don't have the time to examine the file
>with the AB creator). As I see it, you give the creature a base cost,
>before weapons etc. are added, a base cost of 121 points, not 100 as I
>have after the Base modifier (T and Save related) are added. I suspect
>that some of the point difference somehow are related to CC weapons,
>eventhough none have been added yet - at least the difference changes when
>the WS, S, I and A stats are changed, and these are all included in the CC
>weapon cost.
>
>I haven't tried with other WD creatures, as I'm really only interested in
>the Malefactor. I have two Armourcast models I want to use.
The Malefactor and Dactylis come out wrong with Army Builder, and the way I
and someone else calculated them independently.
>.............................
>When adding weapons to a Monstosity (with no Mass points) there is no
>problem in giving it 2 sets of scything talons, lashwhip, rending claws
>and two range weapons - all at once.
>
>I think you should add a selectable "Gargantuan" stat to the creatures.
>If this is selected, a creature can have 1-x mass points and between 2 and
>4 bio-weapons. If the stat isn't selected the creature has 0 mass points
>and can (must) have only 2 bio-weapons.
Pay attention to the soft validation errors
Taking 1 mass point automatically classes the creature as Gargantuan, with
the associated annoyances.
>.............................
>If a Spinefist (or other weapon) is bought as being Massive it gets S+1
>and AP-1, but this isn't included in the description on the rooster. - in
>fact the text "Massive" isn't even included on the printout, thogh it is
>on the screen.
Dangit.
>.............................
>Would it be possible to include a monstrsity, which have transport
>capability, to a brood of, say, genestealers?
What do you mean by this?
>............................
>Btw: What does the cost line in the Description field
>mean? (Eg: 10/15/15/20/20/25 for Acid spray) It seems to besomthing that
>should be removed from the description field.
It's the costs for S5/6/7/8/9/10. I decided it should be displayed somewhere...
--
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:24:48 +0100
From: "TAGARNO A/S - Niels Peter Gibe" <np@tagarno.dk>
Subject: SV: SV: Tyranid Monstrosities
>> Spinefist
>> Base x BS mod x A mod
>> 10 x 150% x 200% (30)
>>
>> Massive modifier
>> Weap cost x 200%: 30 x 200% = 60 213
>The way I would do it:
>Base Spinefist 10
>BS Mod 50%
>Att Mod 100%
>Massive Mod 100%
>-------------------
>Total 250%
>250% of 10 = 25. 25 + 10 = 35, which is what AB calculates. This is the way
>the example on page 47 calculates weapon costs...
I read what you write and though the method you use seems logical, we can see that it doesn't give the same results, as the examples in the book.
I think that the important thing is the following text from the upgrade descriptions:
"The upgrade adds x% of the weapon's normal cost to its value.".
If the normal weapon value is calculated as:
Normal Price = Base prise x BS mod x A mod
Then the final value is calculated as:
Final value = Normal Prixe x (Sum of upgrade modifiers)
eg.
Ranged, Massive Str 7 Spinefist w. BS4, A3:
Normal Price = 10 x 150% x 200% = 30 points.
Final Value = 30 x (250%) = 75 points.
I agree with you, that the example on page 47 says something else, so we have to ask GW which method is correct.
Niels Peter Gibe
TAGARNO A/S
HATTINGVEJ 5
DK-8700 HORSENS
TEL.: +45 7625 1111
WWW.TAGARNO.DK
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