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There are 10 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Augment and Race xx accu:
From: acummings@lucent.com
2. foll:race-must and leader attributes?
From: acummings@lucent.com
3. Re: Augment and Race xx accu:
From: 'Not Colin' McAlister & The Skrills <demandred@skrill.org>
4. Re: foll:race-must and leader attributes?
From: Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com>
5. Re: Augment and Race xx accu:
From: acummings@lucent.com
6. Re: foll:race-must and leader attributes?
From: acummings@lucent.com
7. Re: Re: Augment and Race xx accu:
From: Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com>
8. Re: Legion fo the damned
From: "Mike Montour" <gerendel@hotmail.com>
9. Re: Re: Legion fo the damned
From: "Kain Azeroth" <blackangel55@hotmail.com>
10. Re: Augment and Race xx accu:
From: acummings@lucent.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:36:44 -0000
From: acummings@lucent.com
Subject: Augment and Race xx accu:
Hi all,
A quick question that has me stumped!
If a unit has the "foll:race-must" external attribute, when a leader
is chosen is there any way that a followers specific stat can be made
the same as it leaders? (AB2.1).
The follower is not a Child of the Leader - or does it become a child
when assigned a leader?
regards
Andy
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:42:11 -0000
From: acummings@lucent.com
Subject: foll:race-must and leader attributes?
Hi all,
A quick question that has me stumped!
If a unit has the "foll:race-must" external attribute, when a leader
is chosen is there any way that a followers specific stat can be made
the same as it leaders? (AB2.1).
The follower is not a Child of the Leader - or does it become a child
when assigned a leader?
regards
Andy
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:51:53 +0000
From: 'Not Colin' McAlister & The Skrills <demandred@skrill.org>
Subject: Re: Augment and Race xx accu:
One fine day in the middle of the night, acummings@lucent.com got up to
write:
>Hi all,
>
>A quick question that has me stumped!
>
>If a unit has the "foll:race-must" external attribute, when a leader
>is chosen is there any way that a followers specific stat can be made
>the same as it leaders? (AB2.1).
No. You can accumulate a follower unit's statistic into a leader with
the -accum@... qualifier to the lead: external attribute, but you can't
do what you ask (as far as I'm aware).
>The follower is not a Child of the Leader - or does it become a child
>when assigned a leader?
No, that's only for units added with the 'unit' and 'rept' option
attributes.
--
'Not Colin' McAlister | License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
-----------------------------+------------------------------------
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 15:18:37 -0800
From: Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com>
Subject: Re: foll:race-must and leader attributes?
The relationship between leaders and followers is a loose association, so
there is no hard link between the two. The leader can accumulate
characteristics of the children, but there is no way to formally establish
dependencies between leaders and followers, so leader can't directly obtain
stat values from children (unless there is only ever a single child - a
degenerate case) and children can't derive information from the parent.
If you outline what game mechanic you are trying to solve, I will see if I
can think of something to recommend to you, but there is no way to
accomplish what you specifically are trying.
Thanks, Rob
At 08:42 PM 12/28/00 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>A quick question that has me stumped!
>
>If a unit has the "foll:race-must" external attribute, when a leader
>is chosen is there any way that a followers specific stat can be made
>the same as it leaders? (AB2.1).
>
>The follower is not a Child of the Leader - or does it become a child
>when assigned a leader?
>
>regards
>Andy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 726-9689
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:57:57 -0000
From: acummings@lucent.com
Subject: Re: Augment and Race xx accu:
Thanks,
I was aware of the -accu@ qualifier but the problem with this one is
that it is applied after all other stats are calculated (and
overwrites my derived stats! (if I have read this correctly and from
my results (ie failures) of me trying to use the derived accu stat to
re calc another stat!).
Also it would appear (from what I can see) that you cannot use on the
Augment Tab "Record Type = Race xx and the special attribute of accu
to: 1. derive an accumulated stat from a leaders accu stat, 2.
perform a calculation on the Record type race!
e.g.: accu:"Cmd 1 Breaks@"=Com1b/3
If yo have the time I have outlined my problem in reply to Robs
response to this request - any help in resolving this would be
greatly appreciated!
Regards
Andy
--- In armybuilder@egroups.com, 'Not Colin' McAlister & The Skrills
<demandred@s...> wrote:
> One fine day in the middle of the night, acummings@l... got up to
> write:
>
> >Hi all,
> >
> >A quick question that has me stumped!
> >
> >If a unit has the "foll:race-must" external attribute, when a
leader
> >is chosen is there any way that a followers specific stat can be
made
> >the same as it leaders? (AB2.1).
>
> No. You can accumulate a follower unit's statistic into a leader
with
> the -accum@ qualifier to the lead: external attribute, but you can't
> do what you ask (as far as I'm aware).
>
> >The follower is not a Child of the Leader - or does it become a
child
> >when assigned a leader?
>
> No, that's only for units added with the 'unit' and 'rept' option
> attributes.
>
> --
> 'Not Colin' McAlister | License to Skrill
> Email: demandred@s... | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
> -----------------------------+------------------------------------
> "Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 00:46:56 -0000
From: acummings@lucent.com
Subject: Re: foll:race-must and leader attributes?
Rob,
Thanks for clearing up the parent/child and leader/follower scenario -
it will in itself save me time.
The problem (s):
Within DBM it is possible to have up to 4 commands, each command is
lead by a general (CinC, Sub or Ally). Each of these commands is
assigned a break point (1/3 its Equivalent Elements(EE)) Currently in
the original DBM file only the army break point is calculated (1/2
total EE) and displayed on the printout roster using the Record Type
Race xx accu attribute in the Core data file, I would also like to
display the Break Points of each command in the same way.
I can achieve all of the above BUT... not in an automatic way with
suitable rule validation.
The easiest way for me to show you is to upload the datadef.dbm and
core.dbm and example army file to the files section (dbm.zip)
Basically the follower EE is accumulated through the external
attribute Lead into stat "Cmd" (this shows the number of EE available
to the entire command led by this general. This works fine.
The CinC is automatically given Command 1 and the Record Type Race xx
within the Core.dbm file produces the correct Command 1 break point
(1/3 ee for that comamnd (ie just the cinc
).
When a Sub general is added then Command 1 is not an option but
Command 2, 3 and 4 are, first problem how do I stop Command 2 (0r 3
or 4) being taken by two seperate (but in the same list) sub generals
(two seperate entries in unit list would achieve this but is not
elegant and raises other problems with army of more than 4 generals
available for selection!).
The only way I can then get the correct Command Break points to work
is to provide an option for Command selection for EACH unit (this
then sets the right stats to enable the Core.dbm race attribute to
accu the stat.
The problem with this is that a follower can be allocated to a Sub
general that sub general has been allocated command 2! but the unit
could be allocated to command 3! so we have a unit whos general is
Command 2 but the units EE is calculated for command 3!
The ideal solution (hence my question about Foll:race-must and
leaders) and derived stats is how can I enforce the following yet
still use the Record Race attribute accu to display the command break
points:
1. "Followers" of a leader automatically assigned same Command (1
from 4) as leader
2. Sub/Ally Generals same as above but can only be allocated a
command that is not currently selected by another general (ie command
2 3 or 4).
3. A unit should only be allowed to select a command that is
currently allocated to a general (eg in example army file only 3
generals are valid so comamnd 4 should never be displayed as an
option!)
Sorry for the length - but I have spent quite a few hours (ok days)
trying to resolve this one!) and you expertise would be greatly
appareciated in resolving this.
Note: I have changed both the datadef.dbm and core.dbm files from
the original that are available from your website!
Regards
Andy
--- In armybuilder@egroups.com, Rob Bowes <rob@w...> wrote:
> The relationship between leaders and followers is a loose
association, so
> there is no hard link between the two. The leader can accumulate
> characteristics of the children, but there is no way to formally
establish
> dependencies between leaders and followers, so leader can't
directly obtain
> stat values from children (unless there is only ever a single
child - a
> degenerate case) and children can't derive information from the
parent.
>
> If you outline what game mechanic you are trying to solve, I will
see if I
> can think of something to recommend to you, but there is no way to
> accomplish what you specifically are trying.
>
> Thanks, Rob
>
>
> At 08:42 PM 12/28/00 +0000, you wrote:
> >Hi all,
> >
> >A quick question that has me stumped!
> >
> >If a unit has the "foll:race-must" external attribute, when a
leader
> >is chosen is there any way that a followers specific stat can be
made
> >the same as it leaders? (AB2.1).
> >
> >The follower is not a Child of the Leader - or does it become a
child
> >when assigned a leader?
> >
> >regards
> >Andy
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Rob Bowes (rob@w...) (650) 726-9689
> Lone Wolf Development
www.wolflair.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:08:30 -0800
From: Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Augment and Race xx accu:
At 11:57 PM 12/28/00 +0000, you wrote:
>Thanks,
>
>I was aware of the -accu@ qualifier but the problem with this one is
>that it is applied after all other stats are calculated (and
>overwrites my derived stats! (if I have read this correctly and from
>my results (ie failures) of me trying to use the derived accu stat to
>re calc another stat!).
Due to the loose connection between leaders and followers (explained in a
previous post), all accumulation is done AFTER all other stat adjustments
have been performed. Consequently, the accumulated stats simply overwrite
whatever happened to be in that stat value previously. In many cases, a
good solution for handling accumulated stats is to accumulate into a
completely separate stat of the leader unit.
>Also it would appear (from what I can see) that you cannot use on the
>Augment Tab "Record Type = Race xx and the special attribute of accu
>to: 1. derive an accumulated stat from a leaders accu stat, 2.
>perform a calculation on the Record type race!
>e.g.: accu:"Cmd 1 Breaks@"=Com1b/3
Correct on point #1. All accumulations are done simultaneously in a single
pass over the entire roster - this is important for performance. Therefore,
there is no way to sequence the accumulations and have one accumulated stat
fold into another. However, I believe this can be addressed by having the
army break point be accumulated via a separate attribute and set of hidden
stats.
If I understand point #2 correctly, you want an actual calculation in the
accumulated stat. There is no way to do that. However, you can perform the
calculation on the stat and then accumulate it that way. The only
requirement for this is that you include an extra decimal point in the stat
being accumulated to mitigate any rounding problems that might occur.
I've also just added support for calculations in "accu" on the todo list.
>If yo have the time I have outlined my problem in reply to Robs
>response to this request - any help in resolving this would be
>greatly appreciated!
I'll look at your other email in more detail in a little bit.
Thanks, Rob
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 726-9689
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
[This message contained attachments]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 03:14:34 -0000
From: "Mike Montour" <gerendel@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Legion fo the damned
>
> there is no way an e. champ. would fight with the Legion. Most
chapters
> consider them to be disloyal to the Emperor. the champ. is elected
by
> someone in the chapter... blah blah... the Legion doesn't fallow
the same
> rules as the normal chapters. They are not allowed to use the
chap... Use
> Sergeant Centurius.
>
> Kain Azeroth
>
FIRSTLY, segt. Cent. is only writen up in 2nd ed rules, and droped in
third, Secondly if second ed carried over, we wouldn't even have this
discusion. Thirdly the "disloyal to the empirer" Right the same fluff
also says that there posiably the ghost of fallen space marines
continuing to fight for same said emperor.Thats also why in second ed
they were found in the ultra marines codex and not chaos!!
But that is still second ed, and in third, W.D.#236 on page 88 "nick
davis talks of useing them W/his imperial fist.Loyal space marines!
and on page 89 he talks of legion fallowing "SPACE MARINE CODEX!"
This makes them space marines! And in W.D. #245 E. Champ is a special
character for all non templar (say it w/me)Space Marine chapters.
In Third ed., legion get A Comand squad, A force comander, tactical,
rhino and dreads. Empires champ came later. One character won't kill
the game and in our neck of the woods he's Legion allowed!
MONTOUR
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:42:13 -0800
From: "Kain Azeroth" <blackangel55@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Legion fo the damned
>FIRSTLY, segt. Cent. is only writen up in 2nd ed rules, and droped in
>third, Secondly if second ed carried over, we wouldn't even have this
>discusion. Thirdly the "disloyal to the empirer" Right the same fluff
>also says that there posiably the ghost of fallen space marines
>continuing to fight for same said emperor.Thats also why in second ed
>they were found in the ultra marines codex and not chaos!!
> But that is still second ed, and in third, W.D.#236 on page 88 "nick
>davis talks of useing them W/his imperial fist.Loyal space marines!
>and on page 89 he talks of legion fallowing "SPACE MARINE CODEX!"
>This makes them space marines! And in W.D. #245 E. Champ is a special
>character for all non templar (say it w/me)Space Marine chapters.
>In Third ed., legion get A Comand squad, A force comander, tactical,
>rhino and dreads. Empires champ came later. One character won't kill
>the game and in our neck of the woods he's Legion allowed!
Wow, getting a bit to iritated aren't you? I never said they were disloyal,
I said many chapters think they are. Which i will not refute my self cause
I was tired when i wrote the last message and i didn't mean chapters. The
inquisition thinks they are bad news. Which we all know they aren't. And I
just was mearly stating that I didn't think the legion should be allowed to
use the Emperor's Chimp (no mispelling there) because of the fluff. And
they are not strickly Codex (meaning they are not straight from the Space
Marine codex) because if they were, they be allowed scouts, heavy support
(more then just devs),and more elites, and terminator armour. The Imperial
Fists in question are from the space marine codex. I never said the legion
was Choas... you need to read what I said. anyhow, if you wanna use the
chimp by all means do so, they do have a lack of good characters. And i
could have sworn i saw the stats for segt. Cent. somewhere. Oh well if i
find them i'll let you know, cause he is very good.
Kain Azeroth
Warhammer-40k egroup: http://www.egroups.com/group/warhammer-40k
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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 09:38:17 -0000
From: acummings@lucent.com
Subject: Re: Augment and Race xx accu:
Rob,
Thanks again for the quick feedback.
As you will see from the uploaded files (dbm.zip)- I have already
calculated the command break points (4 of) into a seperate stat
(com1b) which is then accu via the race xx attribute (augment tab).
BTW: I am lucky in that there are 5 accu stats available - I am
already using all five can additional accu stats be added to the "to
do" wish list - in addition to the support for calculations - also it
may be a good hide to add a -show/-hide tag as if to many are
available it will be become to unwieldly to cycle through on the AB
UI - just a thought!
Many thanks again for the help - hoping you can help solve the other
related problems.
Regards
Andy
--- In armybuilder@egroups.com, Rob Bowes <rob@w...> wrote:
> At 11:57 PM 12/28/00 +0000, you wrote:
> >Thanks,
> >
> >I was aware of the -accu@ qualifier but the problem with this one
is
> >that it is applied after all other stats are calculated (and
> >overwrites my derived stats! (if I have read this correctly and
from
> >my results (ie failures) of me trying to use the derived accu stat
to
> >re calc another stat!).
>
> Due to the loose connection between leaders and followers
(explained in a
> previous post), all accumulation is done AFTER all other stat
adjustments
> have been performed. Consequently, the accumulated stats simply
overwrite
> whatever happened to be in that stat value previously. In many
cases, a
> good solution for handling accumulated stats is to accumulate into
a
> completely separate stat of the leader unit.
>
> >Also it would appear (from what I can see) that you cannot use on
the
> >Augment Tab "Record Type = Race xx and the special attribute of
accu
> >to: 1. derive an accumulated stat from a leaders accu stat, 2.
> >perform a calculation on the Record type race!
> >e.g.: accu:"Cmd 1 Breaks@"=Com1b/3
>
> Correct on point #1. All accumulations are done simultaneously in a
single
> pass over the entire roster - this is important for performance.
Therefore,
> there is no way to sequence the accumulations and have one
accumulated stat
> fold into another. However, I believe this can be addressed by
having the
> army break point be accumulated via a separate attribute and set of
hidden
> stats.
>
> If I understand point #2 correctly, you want an actual calculation
in the
> accumulated stat. There is no way to do that. However, you can
perform the
> calculation on the stat and then accumulate it that way. The only
> requirement for this is that you include an extra decimal point in
the stat
> being accumulated to mitigate any rounding problems that might
occur.
>
> I've also just added support for calculations in "accu" on the todo
list.
>
> >If yo have the time I have outlined my problem in reply to Robs
> >response to this request - any help in resolving this would be
> >greatly appreciated!
>
> I'll look at your other email in more detail in a little bit.
>
> Thanks, Rob
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Rob Bowes (rob@w...) (650) 726-9689
> Lone Wolf Development
www.wolflair.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
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There are 10 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Augment and Race xx accu:
From: acummings@lucent.com
2. foll:race-must and leader attributes?
From: acummings@lucent.com
3. Re: Augment and Race xx accu:
From: 'Not Colin' McAlister & The Skrills <demandred@skrill.org>
4. Re: foll:race-must and leader attributes?
From: Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com>
5. Re: Augment and Race xx accu:
From: acummings@lucent.com
6. Re: foll:race-must and leader attributes?
From: acummings@lucent.com
7. Re: Re: Augment and Race xx accu:
From: Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com>
8. Re: Legion fo the damned
From: "Mike Montour" <gerendel@hotmail.com>
9. Re: Re: Legion fo the damned
From: "Kain Azeroth" <blackangel55@hotmail.com>
10. Re: Augment and Race xx accu:
From: acummings@lucent.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:36:44 -0000
From: acummings@lucent.com
Subject: Augment and Race xx accu:
Hi all,
A quick question that has me stumped!
If a unit has the "foll:race-must" external attribute, when a leader
is chosen is there any way that a followers specific stat can be made
the same as it leaders? (AB2.1).
The follower is not a Child of the Leader - or does it become a child
when assigned a leader?
regards
Andy
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:42:11 -0000
From: acummings@lucent.com
Subject: foll:race-must and leader attributes?
Hi all,
A quick question that has me stumped!
If a unit has the "foll:race-must" external attribute, when a leader
is chosen is there any way that a followers specific stat can be made
the same as it leaders? (AB2.1).
The follower is not a Child of the Leader - or does it become a child
when assigned a leader?
regards
Andy
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:51:53 +0000
From: 'Not Colin' McAlister & The Skrills <demandred@skrill.org>
Subject: Re: Augment and Race xx accu:
One fine day in the middle of the night, acummings@lucent.com got up to
write:
>Hi all,
>
>A quick question that has me stumped!
>
>If a unit has the "foll:race-must" external attribute, when a leader
>is chosen is there any way that a followers specific stat can be made
>the same as it leaders? (AB2.1).
No. You can accumulate a follower unit's statistic into a leader with
the -accum@... qualifier to the lead: external attribute, but you can't
do what you ask (as far as I'm aware).
>The follower is not a Child of the Leader - or does it become a child
>when assigned a leader?
No, that's only for units added with the 'unit' and 'rept' option
attributes.
--
'Not Colin' McAlister | License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
-----------------------------+------------------------------------
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 15:18:37 -0800
From: Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com>
Subject: Re: foll:race-must and leader attributes?
The relationship between leaders and followers is a loose association, so
there is no hard link between the two. The leader can accumulate
characteristics of the children, but there is no way to formally establish
dependencies between leaders and followers, so leader can't directly obtain
stat values from children (unless there is only ever a single child - a
degenerate case) and children can't derive information from the parent.
If you outline what game mechanic you are trying to solve, I will see if I
can think of something to recommend to you, but there is no way to
accomplish what you specifically are trying.
Thanks, Rob
At 08:42 PM 12/28/00 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>A quick question that has me stumped!
>
>If a unit has the "foll:race-must" external attribute, when a leader
>is chosen is there any way that a followers specific stat can be made
>the same as it leaders? (AB2.1).
>
>The follower is not a Child of the Leader - or does it become a child
>when assigned a leader?
>
>regards
>Andy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 726-9689
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:57:57 -0000
From: acummings@lucent.com
Subject: Re: Augment and Race xx accu:
Thanks,
I was aware of the -accu@ qualifier but the problem with this one is
that it is applied after all other stats are calculated (and
overwrites my derived stats! (if I have read this correctly and from
my results (ie failures) of me trying to use the derived accu stat to
re calc another stat!).
Also it would appear (from what I can see) that you cannot use on the
Augment Tab "Record Type = Race xx and the special attribute of accu
to: 1. derive an accumulated stat from a leaders accu stat, 2.
perform a calculation on the Record type race!
e.g.: accu:"Cmd 1 Breaks@"=Com1b/3
If yo have the time I have outlined my problem in reply to Robs
response to this request - any help in resolving this would be
greatly appreciated!
Regards
Andy
--- In armybuilder@egroups.com, 'Not Colin' McAlister & The Skrills
<demandred@s...> wrote:
> One fine day in the middle of the night, acummings@l... got up to
> write:
>
> >Hi all,
> >
> >A quick question that has me stumped!
> >
> >If a unit has the "foll:race-must" external attribute, when a
leader
> >is chosen is there any way that a followers specific stat can be
made
> >the same as it leaders? (AB2.1).
>
> No. You can accumulate a follower unit's statistic into a leader
with
> the -accum@ qualifier to the lead: external attribute, but you can't
> do what you ask (as far as I'm aware).
>
> >The follower is not a Child of the Leader - or does it become a
child
> >when assigned a leader?
>
> No, that's only for units added with the 'unit' and 'rept' option
> attributes.
>
> --
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 00:46:56 -0000
From: acummings@lucent.com
Subject: Re: foll:race-must and leader attributes?
Rob,
Thanks for clearing up the parent/child and leader/follower scenario -
it will in itself save me time.
The problem (s):
Within DBM it is possible to have up to 4 commands, each command is
lead by a general (CinC, Sub or Ally). Each of these commands is
assigned a break point (1/3 its Equivalent Elements(EE)) Currently in
the original DBM file only the army break point is calculated (1/2
total EE) and displayed on the printout roster using the Record Type
Race xx accu attribute in the Core data file, I would also like to
display the Break Points of each command in the same way.
I can achieve all of the above BUT... not in an automatic way with
suitable rule validation.
The easiest way for me to show you is to upload the datadef.dbm and
core.dbm and example army file to the files section (dbm.zip)
Basically the follower EE is accumulated through the external
attribute Lead into stat "Cmd" (this shows the number of EE available
to the entire command led by this general. This works fine.
The CinC is automatically given Command 1 and the Record Type Race xx
within the Core.dbm file produces the correct Command 1 break point
(1/3 ee for that comamnd (ie just the cinc
). When a Sub general is added then Command 1 is not an option but
Command 2, 3 and 4 are, first problem how do I stop Command 2 (0r 3
or 4) being taken by two seperate (but in the same list) sub generals
(two seperate entries in unit list would achieve this but is not
elegant and raises other problems with army of more than 4 generals
available for selection!).
The only way I can then get the correct Command Break points to work
is to provide an option for Command selection for EACH unit (this
then sets the right stats to enable the Core.dbm race attribute to
accu the stat.
The problem with this is that a follower can be allocated to a Sub
general that sub general has been allocated command 2! but the unit
could be allocated to command 3! so we have a unit whos general is
Command 2 but the units EE is calculated for command 3!
The ideal solution (hence my question about Foll:race-must and
leaders) and derived stats is how can I enforce the following yet
still use the Record Race attribute accu to display the command break
points:
1. "Followers" of a leader automatically assigned same Command (1
from 4) as leader
2. Sub/Ally Generals same as above but can only be allocated a
command that is not currently selected by another general (ie command
2 3 or 4).
3. A unit should only be allowed to select a command that is
currently allocated to a general (eg in example army file only 3
generals are valid so comamnd 4 should never be displayed as an
option!)
Sorry for the length - but I have spent quite a few hours (ok days)
trying to resolve this one!) and you expertise would be greatly
appareciated in resolving this.
Note: I have changed both the datadef.dbm and core.dbm files from
the original that are available from your website!
Regards
Andy
--- In armybuilder@egroups.com, Rob Bowes <rob@w...> wrote:
> The relationship between leaders and followers is a loose
association, so
> there is no hard link between the two. The leader can accumulate
> characteristics of the children, but there is no way to formally
establish
> dependencies between leaders and followers, so leader can't
directly obtain
> stat values from children (unless there is only ever a single
child - a
> degenerate case) and children can't derive information from the
parent.
>
> If you outline what game mechanic you are trying to solve, I will
see if I
> can think of something to recommend to you, but there is no way to
> accomplish what you specifically are trying.
>
> Thanks, Rob
>
>
> At 08:42 PM 12/28/00 +0000, you wrote:
> >Hi all,
> >
> >A quick question that has me stumped!
> >
> >If a unit has the "foll:race-must" external attribute, when a
leader
> >is chosen is there any way that a followers specific stat can be
made
> >the same as it leaders? (AB2.1).
> >
> >The follower is not a Child of the Leader - or does it become a
child
> >when assigned a leader?
> >
> >regards
> >Andy
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Rob Bowes (rob@w...) (650) 726-9689
> Lone Wolf Development
www.wolflair.com
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:08:30 -0800
From: Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Augment and Race xx accu:
At 11:57 PM 12/28/00 +0000, you wrote:
>Thanks,
>
>I was aware of the -accu@ qualifier but the problem with this one is
>that it is applied after all other stats are calculated (and
>overwrites my derived stats! (if I have read this correctly and from
>my results (ie failures) of me trying to use the derived accu stat to
>re calc another stat!).
Due to the loose connection between leaders and followers (explained in a
previous post), all accumulation is done AFTER all other stat adjustments
have been performed. Consequently, the accumulated stats simply overwrite
whatever happened to be in that stat value previously. In many cases, a
good solution for handling accumulated stats is to accumulate into a
completely separate stat of the leader unit.
>Also it would appear (from what I can see) that you cannot use on the
>Augment Tab "Record Type = Race xx and the special attribute of accu
>to: 1. derive an accumulated stat from a leaders accu stat, 2.
>perform a calculation on the Record type race!
>e.g.: accu:"Cmd 1 Breaks@"=Com1b/3
Correct on point #1. All accumulations are done simultaneously in a single
pass over the entire roster - this is important for performance. Therefore,
there is no way to sequence the accumulations and have one accumulated stat
fold into another. However, I believe this can be addressed by having the
army break point be accumulated via a separate attribute and set of hidden
stats.
If I understand point #2 correctly, you want an actual calculation in the
accumulated stat. There is no way to do that. However, you can perform the
calculation on the stat and then accumulate it that way. The only
requirement for this is that you include an extra decimal point in the stat
being accumulated to mitigate any rounding problems that might occur.
I've also just added support for calculations in "accu" on the todo list.
>If yo have the time I have outlined my problem in reply to Robs
>response to this request - any help in resolving this would be
>greatly appreciated!
I'll look at your other email in more detail in a little bit.
Thanks, Rob
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 726-9689
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
[This message contained attachments]
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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 03:14:34 -0000
From: "Mike Montour" <gerendel@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Legion fo the damned
>
> there is no way an e. champ. would fight with the Legion. Most
chapters
> consider them to be disloyal to the Emperor. the champ. is elected
by
> someone in the chapter... blah blah... the Legion doesn't fallow
the same
> rules as the normal chapters. They are not allowed to use the
chap... Use
> Sergeant Centurius.
>
> Kain Azeroth
>
FIRSTLY, segt. Cent. is only writen up in 2nd ed rules, and droped in
third, Secondly if second ed carried over, we wouldn't even have this
discusion. Thirdly the "disloyal to the empirer" Right the same fluff
also says that there posiably the ghost of fallen space marines
continuing to fight for same said emperor.Thats also why in second ed
they were found in the ultra marines codex and not chaos!!
But that is still second ed, and in third, W.D.#236 on page 88 "nick
davis talks of useing them W/his imperial fist.Loyal space marines!
and on page 89 he talks of legion fallowing "SPACE MARINE CODEX!"
This makes them space marines! And in W.D. #245 E. Champ is a special
character for all non templar (say it w/me)Space Marine chapters.
In Third ed., legion get A Comand squad, A force comander, tactical,
rhino and dreads. Empires champ came later. One character won't kill
the game and in our neck of the woods he's Legion allowed!
MONTOUR
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:42:13 -0800
From: "Kain Azeroth" <blackangel55@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Legion fo the damned
>FIRSTLY, segt. Cent. is only writen up in 2nd ed rules, and droped in
>third, Secondly if second ed carried over, we wouldn't even have this
>discusion. Thirdly the "disloyal to the empirer" Right the same fluff
>also says that there posiably the ghost of fallen space marines
>continuing to fight for same said emperor.Thats also why in second ed
>they were found in the ultra marines codex and not chaos!!
> But that is still second ed, and in third, W.D.#236 on page 88 "nick
>davis talks of useing them W/his imperial fist.Loyal space marines!
>and on page 89 he talks of legion fallowing "SPACE MARINE CODEX!"
>This makes them space marines! And in W.D. #245 E. Champ is a special
>character for all non templar (say it w/me)Space Marine chapters.
>In Third ed., legion get A Comand squad, A force comander, tactical,
>rhino and dreads. Empires champ came later. One character won't kill
>the game and in our neck of the woods he's Legion allowed!
Wow, getting a bit to iritated aren't you? I never said they were disloyal,
I said many chapters think they are. Which i will not refute my self cause
I was tired when i wrote the last message and i didn't mean chapters. The
inquisition thinks they are bad news. Which we all know they aren't. And I
just was mearly stating that I didn't think the legion should be allowed to
use the Emperor's Chimp (no mispelling there) because of the fluff. And
they are not strickly Codex (meaning they are not straight from the Space
Marine codex) because if they were, they be allowed scouts, heavy support
(more then just devs),and more elites, and terminator armour. The Imperial
Fists in question are from the space marine codex. I never said the legion
was Choas... you need to read what I said. anyhow, if you wanna use the
chimp by all means do so, they do have a lack of good characters. And i
could have sworn i saw the stats for segt. Cent. somewhere. Oh well if i
find them i'll let you know, cause he is very good.
Kain Azeroth
Warhammer-40k egroup: http://www.egroups.com/group/warhammer-40k
A Warhammer 40k group for anyone that enjoys the game and want's to discuss
rules and other stuff. We love home made stuff, like rules and minis.
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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 09:38:17 -0000
From: acummings@lucent.com
Subject: Re: Augment and Race xx accu:
Rob,
Thanks again for the quick feedback.
As you will see from the uploaded files (dbm.zip)- I have already
calculated the command break points (4 of) into a seperate stat
(com1b) which is then accu via the race xx attribute (augment tab).
BTW: I am lucky in that there are 5 accu stats available - I am
already using all five can additional accu stats be added to the "to
do" wish list - in addition to the support for calculations - also it
may be a good hide to add a -show/-hide tag as if to many are
available it will be become to unwieldly to cycle through on the AB
UI - just a thought!
Many thanks again for the help - hoping you can help solve the other
related problems.
Regards
Andy
--- In armybuilder@egroups.com, Rob Bowes <rob@w...> wrote:
> At 11:57 PM 12/28/00 +0000, you wrote:
> >Thanks,
> >
> >I was aware of the -accu@ qualifier but the problem with this one
is
> >that it is applied after all other stats are calculated (and
> >overwrites my derived stats! (if I have read this correctly and
from
> >my results (ie failures) of me trying to use the derived accu stat
to
> >re calc another stat!).
>
> Due to the loose connection between leaders and followers
(explained in a
> previous post), all accumulation is done AFTER all other stat
adjustments
> have been performed. Consequently, the accumulated stats simply
overwrite
> whatever happened to be in that stat value previously. In many
cases, a
> good solution for handling accumulated stats is to accumulate into
a
> completely separate stat of the leader unit.
>
> >Also it would appear (from what I can see) that you cannot use on
the
> >Augment Tab "Record Type = Race xx and the special attribute of
accu
> >to: 1. derive an accumulated stat from a leaders accu stat, 2.
> >perform a calculation on the Record type race!
> >e.g.: accu:"Cmd 1 Breaks@"=Com1b/3
>
> Correct on point #1. All accumulations are done simultaneously in a
single
> pass over the entire roster - this is important for performance.
Therefore,
> there is no way to sequence the accumulations and have one
accumulated stat
> fold into another. However, I believe this can be addressed by
having the
> army break point be accumulated via a separate attribute and set of
hidden
> stats.
>
> If I understand point #2 correctly, you want an actual calculation
in the
> accumulated stat. There is no way to do that. However, you can
perform the
> calculation on the stat and then accumulate it that way. The only
> requirement for this is that you include an extra decimal point in
the stat
> being accumulated to mitigate any rounding problems that might
occur.
>
> I've also just added support for calculations in "accu" on the todo
list.
>
> >If yo have the time I have outlined my problem in reply to Robs
> >response to this request - any help in resolving this would be
> >greatly appreciated!
>
> I'll look at your other email in more detail in a little bit.
>
> Thanks, Rob
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Rob Bowes (rob@w...) (650) 726-9689
> Lone Wolf Development
www.wolflair.com
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